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Hi gang, I'm looking for some opinions on a bit of modelling and a bit of rules so I thought I'd chuck this up in General Discussions.

I'm currently working on a Voidraven Bomber for my Dark Eldar. I already have 2 Razorwing Fighters and had to add one of these once I saw the model.
I'm looking to increase the height of the flying stand on the bomber by just under 3" purely for aesthetic reasons. It just looks cooler being a bit higher than the fighters flanking it.
I'm generally a pretty casual player but I've been known to do the odd tournament in my time.

Can anyone think of any reasons why increasing the height of the stand to about 7.5" would give me an advantage? It'd be good to hear both sides if there are disadvantages too.

Could this be seen as modelling for advantage in a big way, am I missing something huge!

There are two complaints I can think of:

1. You improve your Line of Sight.

2. Weapons have to be a little bit closer to be able to hit.

 Happyjew wrote:
There are two complaints I can think of:

1. You improve your Line of Sight.

2. Weapons have to be a little bit closer to be able to hit.

And if that is a problem, have a stick for the normal height, substitute for a FEW SECONDS to see if Line of Site would have been effected and if weapons are in range.

Real simple. Problem solved.

Rule of Cool and what looks great should take precedence over anything. If an issue comes up the template (stick) can be used to show where it would have been and then just use that if your opponent complains. After all you want what looks great for you, your opponent knows you have no advantage, so that should take care of it.

I can think of an additional disadvantage, too -- the taller you make the stand on the same-sized base, the more likely the whole thing is to fall over if someone bumps the table.

Voidraven is a large model, and the stand isn't really THAT big. Just like the Stormraven, if you don't have it fastened to the model, it can fall off; if you do, there is a decent chance it will tip over. To an extent, you can mitigate this by using on a woden base or weighted base, and pinning the model to the stand.

Buy a spare base, use real one in tournaments, and in games where people aren't comfortable, and use modified one where people don't care and on display.

Better Los is the advantage. Better Los to you is the disadvantage. On the other hand, don't you measure shooting distance to the base, not the model?

If your measuring from to base to shoot the flyer but measuring from weapon on vehicle to base when attacking the height would be another disadvantage.

Here's a few pics of how I intend to have the base and how I did the Fighters.
I'm not too worried about stability, the models are attached to the bases and will be weighed down sufficiently.
Some good points so far guys, thanks, keep them coming if there are any issues specific to this model or other models/weapons interacting with it.





Here's a link to the whole army project blog.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/533452.page


Cheers.

Lance845 wrote:
On the other hand, don't you measure shooting distance to the base, not the model?.

No. It's a vehicle, and you ignore flight bases.

If you did this in a game with me I wouldn't complain.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
If you did this in a game with me I wouldn't complain.

Same, but his problem is some tournaments might not. Just buy another base bro two bases no problems.

 Rippy wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
If you did this in a game with me I wouldn't complain.

Same, but his problem is some tournaments might not. Just buy another base bro two bases no problems.

Yeah, I concur. I think your bases look cool, and I would have no problem with them at all

If someone had an issue with LOS, you could always stipulate that you're willing to measure LOS from a normal height. But hey, rule of cool and all that. Win!

For some reason I always assumed zooming flyers ignored terrain for line of sight purposes because I thought they'd be high enough for a building not to matter

Rarely will building cover really be an issue,

You will have stacking advantage when you place two near each other where normally the wings will get in the way
(since one is higher the other can fit underneath it easier)

Honestly its not the worlds biggest war crime

Is modeling for advantage? technically yes

Wouldn't it be modelling for disadvantage, actually? Technically, don't the weapons only have a 45 degree arc of fire, thus making it even harder for him to shoot stuff if he models it higher?

Advantage/disadvantage. its simply modeling to be different. there are pros and cons to it. but in a pedantic sort of way it still has advantages.

a normal person wouldn't give a rats backside.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Wouldn't it be modelling for disadvantage, actually? Technically, don't the weapons only have a 45 degree arc of fire, thus making it even harder for him to shoot stuff if he models it higher?

Yes but he also would get some beneifts , like being able to group them up much tighter than they normally could be and it would allow them to fit places they normally can't. That said what he is proposing seems fine, and if a question comes up just have the normal stand handy.

Being a little farther away for weapon range could be an issue. Sometimes it’s rough to get in that half range for a melta hit, and being an 3” up makes it even harder. Heck, it might be high enough that a stock melta gun couldn’t even hit it!

That said, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, I’d have no problem with it personally. But there is enough actual problems that I could see some legitimate complaints.

If you don’t want to get a spare flight stand (it looks like you make custom ones) it might be worth constructing it in such a way that there is an extender you could add/remove depending on the situation.

Okay, so I've gone even higher, rules be damned.
The model can be attached to the filler piece and to a pin or taken off and placed on a regular base.
I don't think that the flying bases provided make any sense, irl having a bomber flying at 20ft in the air is just dumb!
Thanks for the help guys.

Logically, I see no problem with setting it to whatever height you please. Even a low-flying fighter doing a strafing run it would position itself at an altitude that it could bring its guns to bear on its targets. The exception being if the aircraft were to deliberately hug the ground to break LOS from AA units.

Whether that translates fairly on the gaming board I don't know... Also worth considering is any advantages the flyer gains to its LOS are (partially) counterbalanced by it being more visible itself and therefore more exposed to return fire.

It depends on who you are playing. I have seen people cry MFA at ANY conversion or deviation from whats "out of the box" no matter how small it is and Ive seen players who dont give a rats behind no matter what you do. Your best bet it to discuss it with your local players you will actually be using it against.

Personally, something that small, would not bother me in the least as I'm one of the few who go by the rule of cool.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Okay, so I've gone even higher, rules be damned.
The model can be attached to the filler piece and to a pin or taken off and placed on a regular base.
I don't think that the flying bases provided make any sense, irl having a bomber flying at 20ft in the air is just dumb!
Thanks for the help guys.

Oh that is so "RULE OF COOL"

Now show us when that is painted. Love it.

*edit* Wonder why the pics didn't show up in the quote.

Thanks for the positive feedback guys.
I'll be sure to update as that gets painted, but in the meantime here's a quick shot of how the 'Megabase' will be finished





Come and say Hi my P+M Blog if you want to see more Dark Eldar loveliness.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/533452.page

I like the conversions, but good god would I be terrified of that tiny little tress snapping like a twig.

If it happens, it happens!
I was throwing a ball down the corridor for the dog earlier, to get the perfect angle you need to throw quite high and close to the doorframe so that it bounces off the wall and into the lounge.
Being your typical wargamer my throwing wasn't that good on one occasion and the ball bounced off the doorframe and hit the model full bore.
It survived intact so hopefully that's a sign of things to come!