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There's a video now. Don't recall seeing it before today.

Doesn't really say anything new, but it's good they have one.

I think there's a new FF render in the video at 2:10

Oh.. is he new? I guess you're right, I think we've just seen the standard steel warrior till now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think there's a new FF render in the video at 2:10

Looks like a Steel Warrior with a heavy hailstorm

Between the new Brokkrs, Forge Guard and Steel Warriors, I'm wondering how many of Thorgarim, Drakkarim, Stormrage Veterans and Godhammer Veterans are going to still be necessary/viable/survive a new edition.

What we should clamor for is short $5k stretch goals for free restic models.
We all loved the Basilean Sisters and KoW Trolls right?

Oh and lots of add ons and ability to switch things around.
Because that's always worked perfectly!

 judgedoug wrote:
What we should clamor for is short $5k stretch goals for free restic models.
We all loved the Basilean Sisters and KoW Trolls right?

Oh and lots of add ons and ability to switch things around.
Because that's always worked perfectly!

I actually did like the trolls. (And thought that the Basilean sisters were... okay.)

I think that is part of what is slowing thing down though - making molds for HIP is expensive, making molds for restic is less so.

I think that the low impact 'toy' plastic used in Mars Attacks is somewhere between the two.

So people's perceptions are a bit skewed. (Though I think that Mantic could add more of each frame - once the mold is made the actual models are inexpensive - the cost is in making the mold in the first place. Then again, this is supposed to be a board game... fifty gazillion figures may not have a place in these rules....)


The Auld Grump, that said, I wouldn't say no to fifty gazillion figures....

Yeah they really need some smaller goals.. save the big #'s for the plastics that require a lot more funding, but mix in some cheaper stuff inbetween. Adding Blaine was a good idea.

I'd love to see a terrain only pledge though, that's the main thing I want and I'd probably add on lots of extra terrain too if I could. Or if they just let you add on terrain items that would be great too, I'd probably double my pledge if they did that. I love their battlezones

Terrain only pledge is coming, that'll generate a good few $$$.

Plastic molds or not. We raised 25k in the DZ1 for a metal model add-on. It doesn't cost 25k to produce a single metal model. Maybe that much in Yen.

Mantic has shown a pattern and have lost the benefit of the doubt. It's how they add in "extra" goals half way between totals if things are going slowly. Their goals just dont match up and that's why they are deservedly getting flak. They are known enough at this point they don't need to play us.

Wow. There's a lot of entitlement going on. Yikes.

 pretre wrote:
Wow. There's a lot of entitlement going on. Yikes.

Of course, it's a Mantic KS.

 pretre wrote:
Wow. There's a lot of entitlement going on. Yikes.

I think that entitlement starts with Mantic feeling entitled to our $$$ and entitled to use KS as a pre-order system.

So, yeah, some folks feel entitled to get a damned good deal for their $$$ committed months ahead of their pre-ordered toys being delivered.

I don't think Mantic feels entitled to anything. They put out a kickstarter. They probably figure people will pledge it if they like it and won't if they don't. I know, crazytalk.

edit: I'll let it go, since I think we're probably off topic.

 pretre wrote:
I don't think Mantic feels entitled to anything. They put out a kickstarter. Don't like it; don't pledge.

And that logic should apply to the pledgers (and potential pledgers) too. If Mantic does not want to provide them with what they want value wise for the money they spend, then Mantic does not get their money.

So no entitlement at all here, just folks negotiating a deal. Either the terms end up agreeable to both parties, or not.

You see, dollars spent on hobbies are a luxury. Mantic competes with many other goods and services folks can spend those luxury dollars on. They will gain/lose a share of those dollars based on many things, including the perception of value.

Might take a while to get the initial things sorted (possibly the bonus piece for the veermyn sprue and the mat upgraded to rubber remaining).

After that the KS could get really interesting if they start doing $50k goals for a free sprue of 5 minis ($25k for a sprue, $25k to give it more components seems like the likely stretch goal structure).

So far we know they want to make a second veermyn sprue, and then an extra sprue for each faction (except enforcers). Another 25 minis or so would do very nicely to make things better value.

Getting the mini count high enough early enough to maintain interest and momentum is the tricky part.

Also, I really want to hear something about the rules, especially since I have veermyn minis ready to use for playtesting, and I play DZ every week.

Jake said he hasn't done any work on Infestation so far.

 scarletsquig wrote:
So far we know they want to make a second veermyn sprue

I actually had no idea of this, but it sounds great. Thank you.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jake said he hasn't done any work on Infestation so far.

Do they have someone else working on it? Or are they just going to try to do it all before the KS is supposed to deliver? Or have they said one way or the other?

They havent said anything so far, afaik. Jake has just mentioned that he hasnt started working on them yet (well, last week anyway). So it seems likely that nothings been done yet. Especially considering the somewhat vague purpose of the KS.

Since it's a reorganisation rather than a rewrite, all they really need is someone to redo the book layout, and that really needs to be someone with a better eye for aesthetics.

Jake is only needed to do stats for the new units, and then the rewritten campaign system. Which is good, because DS needs a hell of a lot of work still, and I think Jake might be the one doing season 5, 6, and 7 for DBO?

Some of it IS being rewritten. It's being reorganized on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this things has stalled, taking a few backer casualties and Mantic is still silent.

I suppose my biggest gripe is they are halfway acting like this is their first rodeo while seeming smug that it'll all turn out smoothly due to the fact their Projects are normally successful.

And it has NOTHING to do with entitlement. We are pledging money for something that isn't worth the amount we are even pledging yet (will be able to get what's on offer cheaper post-KS) with no plan or view in sight as to what we might be really be getting, and no add-ons and frills to help push us past the current goal. There just isn't enough on the front page to really draw backers in who don't alreay have Deadzone. This is just being sloppily done.

Earth Dragon wrote:
There just isn't enough on the front page to really draw backers in who don't alreay have Deadzone. This is just being sloppily done.

I'm a new backer who has no Mantic product at the moment.

I'm drawn in by the following items:
New rulebook + campaign supplement for a system that seems fun and fits in a 2x2 (i.e. on my kitchen table)
HIPS miniatures
Little bit of scenery - apparently soon to be more
Couple of nice exclusive add-ons at the moment

I actually feel it's okay value at the moment. Maybe I've been brainwashed by GW for too long. Obviously, I hope it'll grow and there'll be more stuff than I can possibly paint in my remaining lifespan, but as it stands, it's not too unreasonable. I'm just glad the miniatures aren't PVC.

As far as I'm aware, no rules work has been done on this so far, but the rules will get a major overhaul. Completely new campaign system, core rules changes and army list rebalancing.

Plenty of time to work on it before Jan 2016 though, I imagine I will be very busy.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Some of it IS being rewritten. It's being reorganized on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this things has stalled, taking a few backer casualties and Mantic is still silent.

I suppose my biggest gripe is they are halfway acting like this is their first rodeo while seeming smug that it'll all turn out smoothly due to the fact their Projects are normally successful.

And it has NOTHING to do with entitlement. We are pledging money for something that isn't worth the amount we are even pledging yet (will be able to get what's on offer cheaper post-KS) with no plan or view in sight as to what we might be really be getting, and no add-ons and frills to help push us past the current goal. There just isn't enough on the front page to really draw backers in who don't alreay have Deadzone. This is just being sloppily done.

I honestly have no idea what you're raging about, are you new to Kickstarter? So far nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

I think the value is fine for what you get, and will only get better later as more goals are reached. For me personally though I would rather just get the terrain, so I'm hoping they add that pledge in soon, and then I'll free up my early bird slot for someone that wants the whole game

Well that's the problem. Mantic is doing their ordinary thing, and some of us thought they would have gotten a little better and matured out of some of the antics, but then again, they are still unable to expand any of their games without KS, so I shouldn't be expecting much from them on that front.

Maybe they're waiting for Ronnie to get back from the Con before they unleash hell?

That's my only thought.

I get it if they don't want things to run out of control, but at this point it's pretty much dullsville. Hopefully we'll get those extra accessories in the next day or two, with Wednesday and the terrain only pledge hopefully bringing in more money to get things rolling at a little bit better pace.

 NTRabbit wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
Some of it IS being rewritten. It's being reorganized on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this things has stalled, taking a few backer casualties and Mantic is still silent.

I suppose my biggest gripe is they are halfway acting like this is their first rodeo while seeming smug that it'll all turn out smoothly due to the fact their Projects are normally successful.

And it has NOTHING to do with entitlement. We are pledging money for something that isn't worth the amount we are even pledging yet (will be able to get what's on offer cheaper post-KS) with no plan or view in sight as to what we might be really be getting, and no add-ons and frills to help push us past the current goal. There just isn't enough on the front page to really draw backers in who don't alreay have Deadzone. This is just being sloppily done.

I honestly have no idea what you're raging about, are you new to Kickstarter? So far nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

I'm not a big fan of accepting things because that's the way they are.

 Necros wrote:
I think the value is fine for what you get, and will only get better later as more goals are reached. For me personally though I would rather just get the terrain, so I'm hoping they add that pledge in soon, and then I'll free up my early bird slot for someone that wants the whole game

You dont have too wait for long.

We’ve had a fair few emails asking how people can just pledge for the scenery and we’re pleased to say that we will have a scenery-only pledge coming in this week’s Add-on Wednesday. Stay tuned!

I hope we get something to spice things up before Wednesday, otherwise it looks like we'll have spent a quarter of the campaign making "two steps forward one step back" progress just to get stretch goal #6.