Deadzone: Infestation from Mantic Games - Ends 4/6/2015 Plastic Forge Fathers funded!

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**Alpharius**

angryboy2k wrote:
Can't believe the number of people here who prefer PVC over metal. This is why we can't have nice things.

Exalted!

People are either having short term memory problems, ridiculous nostalgia good times or a really severe acid flashback there!

**lord_blackfang**

I think I just got numb to it, to be honest. Call is shell shock from Deadzone, Relic Knights and Wrath of Kings... Restic and metal are both complete crap to work with, but Restic is at least much better for transport and play.

**Lukez**

lord_blackfang wrote:
... Restic and metal are both complete crap to work with, but Restic is at least much better for transport and play.

That pretty much nails it imo.

**GrimDork**

I agree, for larger ogre-like models, restic is a solid material choice. For regular infantry sized minis, it's a toss up... but for big chunky models... restic is probably superior, for me. I dread all of othe damage and breaks an Infinity TAG would take... whereas I would probably be comfortable chucking my stage 1 or plague terraton across the room to someone.

I'm with Vermonter, really hope the beast is on a plastic sprue, don't screw the pooch on this one Mantic!

**Alpharius**

Nails it?

Mantic's Deadzone Restic is absolute crap that is a nightmare to clean up and is quite incapable of holding the necessary details for small and human sized figures - transport and play considerations be damned!

All kidding aside, metal is far preferable to Restic for me.

But that might just be because I started out in the transition from Rogue Trader to 2nd!

**Riquende**

Having just taken delivery of £90 worth of yet more Infinity models, I can say I'm quite happy to work with metal models. And yes, I do some conversion work on them.

**Breotan**

Alpharius wrote:
angryboy2k wrote:
Can't believe the number of people here who prefer PVC over metal. This is why we can't have nice things.

Exalted!

People are either having short term memory problems, ridiculous nostalgia good times or a really severe acid flashback there!

PVC is substandard material for miniatures. Actual resin such as FW uses is superior to metal, provided you're casting small objects and you have good quality control in place. HISP is superior to both, excepting the category of "collector's models" in which case you need to go for maximum detail which resin excels in.

The biggest problem with PVC is the irregular shrinkage involved. This is part of why PP's models are generally a huge pain in the ass to assemble.

**NTRabbit**

I'm fine with ranks of 15mm, 10mm or 6mm infantry made in metal, it's even preferable for the smallest scale, but in 28mm scale I just find metal too difficult to clean, a real pain in the ass to assemble (because I hate, hate, hate having to pin anything) too awkward and heavy to use on the table, and for some reason quite difficult to paint properly.

Sure I prefer HIPS, but if the choice is between metal and PVC for a mini large enough to need a 40mm base I'm going to prefer PVC every single time.

**angryboy2k**

It's difficult to argue against folks whose primary concern is that their models aren't too heavy to carry to a game. That to me says that their concerns are completely different to mine.

I don't play miniature games because the models are light, quick to assemble with superglue, and don't smash to bits when dropped (I try not to drop the damn things!); I play miniature games because I appreciate the spectacle of miniature works of art duking it out on a table that's hopefully equally beautiful.

Metal miniatures are certainly a risk on raised terrain. Metal models are definitely more difficult to put together (pinning is necessary on many more models than you'd think). Metal models are undoubtedly more difficult to convert - but unless you're an experienced modeler in the first place you'll probably be butchering the thing anyway; either way (experienced or not) the material doesn't really matter.

However, metal models have two enormous advantages over PVC:
1. They can be cleaned up with files and sandpaper without unnecessary loss of detail. PVC needs cleaning with a knife, where you're basically cutting away sections of model. I can't do it, and I've been painting and playing with toy soldiers for 27 years.
2. They hold detail because the shrinkage of the metal is a known, quantifiable factor that is usually accounted for when creating the model. PVC models can shrink a lot and often have soft detail - PP's Convergence of Cyriss starter had me so frustrated with the detail and the moldlines that I wanted to throw the models across the room.

I will not buy PVC models again (I made an exception for Blood Rage as I'm treating it as pure boardgame). My remaining lifespan is too short to be wasted cleaning them and resculpting detail that should have been on the things in the first place. I feel like the people who think PVC is okay would probably also be satisfied with green army men plastic, and the ability for them to be satisfied with what I consider a completely substandard material, and this material's concomitant acceptance in the industry, is slowly destroying the hobby for me - much as Finecast and the public's apparent acceptance of this awful material was the final nail in my GW coffin.

**judgedoug**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I hate to say that I'm kind of sad to see the passing of PVC from Mantic campaigns.

I have a feeling a few of those rats might have made it both cheaper and into the base pledge if they'd been PVC.

And had nearly impossible to clean mold lines

**CptJake**

I think Mantic needs to offer cardboard standees as an option so folks can carry them to their games and not risk damaging them when they drop them.

**judgedoug**

lord_blackfang wrote:
I think I just got numb to it, to be honest. Call is shell shock from Deadzone, Relic Knights and Wrath of Kings... Restic and metal are both complete crap to work with, but Restic is at least much better for transport and play.

Disagree; metal single piece models (Warlord, Foundry, Perry, etc) are the easiest models to work with. 10 seconds of cleaning, glue to base. Fit in precut foam trays.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breotan wrote:
Actual resin such as FW uses is superior to metal,

FW uses resin? I thought it was some sort of bendy, brittle natural byproduct of some insect larvae.

Real resin = Mierce

**edlowe**

Anvil industry do some pretty fine resin to, so much superior to fw.

I'm hoping the giant rats are in hips for cost sake

**highlord tamburlaine**

I still think of sprue of characters works, if it's stuff that would have been included in the box.

We don't know what will be in the box. Is there even a box? I haven't seen one yet?

I can understand the hesitation to want to put metal figures up into higher ground in a Deadzone game.

Hopefully we'll see a bit more progress with this campaign today and have less reason to argue over materials at that point.

**pretre**

I haven't had a problem with heavy minis and higher ground on the terrain. My terrain doesn't disassemble between games though.

**squall018**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
We don't know what will be in the box. Is there even a box? I haven't seen one yet?

I haven't been under the impression that this is a boxed release, at least in the way the original one was. I thought infestation was simply the name for the KS and that these figures would be coming in their own boxes come retail. Am I wrong here?

**cincydooley**

I'd probably take Wrath of Kings PVC over Metal for most of my models, with my heroes/focal characters being in resin.

**NTRabbit**

squall018 wrote:
highlord tamburlaine wrote:
We don't know what will be in the box. Is there even a box? I haven't seen one yet?

I haven't been under the impression that this is a boxed release, at least in the way the original one was. I thought infestation was simply the name for the KS and that these figures would be coming in their own boxes come retail. Am I wrong here?

It's been suggested, but not confirmed, that Infestation is going to form a follow up 2 player starter with a much cheaper price point by way of omitting some of the more expensive extras like the mouse mat, because people felt Containment Protocols was too expensive to entice new players to make an impulse purchase.

**judgedoug**

NTRabbit wrote:
squall018 wrote:
highlord tamburlaine wrote:
We don't know what will be in the box. Is there even a box? I haven't seen one yet?

I haven't been under the impression that this is a boxed release, at least in the way the original one was. I thought infestation was simply the name for the KS and that these figures would be coming in their own boxes come retail. Am I wrong here?

It's been suggested, but not confirmed, that Infestation is going to form a follow up 2 player starter with a much cheaper price point by way of omitting some of the more expensive extras like the mouse mat, because people felt Containment Protocols was too expensive to entice new players to make an impulse purchase.

One of my FLGS has been eyeing carrying Deadzone but has also been put off by the starter set price point. They are eyeballing this Kickstarter with the January date as a new thing to carry in the new year.

**Bolognesus**

Overnight we laid waste to the Progenitor stretch goal, adding to the choice available to Veer-myn Commanders.

This miniature is now available to add-on for $8.

Over the course of the next few stretch goals we will be funding additional units choices for the Veer-myn, fleshing it out so there is lots on offer.

Today marks one week since the campaign started, so let’s celebrate that with a shiny new stretch goal shall we?

And this one is a doozy

NEW! Stretch Goal BONUS $210,000 Veer-myn Shredders AND Free Faction Booster

Those who dismiss the Veer-myn as barely intelligent pests have obviously never encountered a Shredder. Huge, ravenous humanoids, these things show obvious signs of being made. Even Dr Chanson, the notable Veer-myn denier, was forced to recant when his arch-rival Investigator Gillian Li presented him with a corpse of a Shredder slain on Final Rest, although when he had recovered his wits he dismissed it as a hoax. As tall as two men and far more bulky, Shredders have ratlike heads and enormous muscles. They are often found to have been bionically altered, the most common variant having two super-drills built into their arms. Shredders are insanely violent and barely sentient, that they exist solely for war is beyond doubt, and are a frightening indication of the Veer-myn’s ingenuity and intentions.

Shredders are genetically manipulated Veer-myn and brutish warriors. They are large infantry miniatures, mounted on 40mm bases.

If we hit this stretch goal, we’ll be able to fund and produce the new Veer-myn Shredder in plastic and include one free in Quarantine!

And that’s not all…

Lots of you have asked for more in your pledge levels, and we want to give you more. So, having moved a few things around, when we hit this stretch goal, we will unlock Deadzone: Infestation spec Faction Boosters, and you will be able to pick one FREE in a pledge of Quarantine!

A Faction Booster is a great value bundle of miniatures designed to offer you more specialists, more choice and more variety for your faction, whether you want more figures for your Veer-myn or Enforcers:

Take the new Enforcer Faction Booster for example - this bundle includes five Elite Enforcers in Peacekeeper Armour. This hard plastic kit can be built in a number of different ways, and includes Combat Shields, Incinerator and Burst Laser. There’s also a Strider – a fearsome walker that has the added bonus of being able to be built in Corporation, Rebs or Plague load-outs.

And then, the Veer-myn, where the new Faction Booster will include a Shredder, Veer-myn Progenitor and the Nightmare pack, from our existing range.

Nightmares

Specialist tunnel fighting infantry, the creatures designated as 'Nightmares' are amongst the largest and most fearsome Veer-myn creatures encountered. Whether a separate breed of creature or a more mature version of the typical 'Packers' is not clear, but they are phenomenally strong and incredibly skilled fighters. Dressed in scavenged environment and space suits adapted into effective heavy armour, they carry a combat drill in one hand, lethal melee weapons that literally bore into their enemies’ armour, flesh and bones, resulting in a spectacular fountain of blood. An under-slung chem-thrower muzzle is strapped to the other arm, thick pipes leading to canisters on their backs. These chem-throwers can turn any enclosed space into a blazing inferno; any who survive are easily torn apart by the Nightmares’ charge. For these reasons, Nightmares are amongst the most feared heavy infantry in the galaxy.

There’s a Nightmare sergeant, Nightmare with Chem-Thrower and standard elite troopers as well, offering some extra choice and variety to the force you can field in Deadzone.

By hitting this stretch goal, you can include either of these Faction Boosters for free in your Quarantine pledge, considerably boosting the value and the miniatures included.

The boosters are also available to add-on to your pledge!

Activate Containment Protocol!

As part of our focus on Deadzone at the moment, we have a range of deals for our retailers and distributors so that they can benefit from the added interest the Kickstarter has given us.

This means we’ve been able to dip into our existing Deadzone range and make some of it available for you to add-on (and likewise, they’re able to get the same deals for their customers no problem!)

Containment Protocol

The Original Deadzone Starter Set plus the expansion, this set will come in the pledge manager with the option of early shipping, so you can get playing and painting whilst you wait for your Infestation pledge to arrive!

Deadzone Faction Starters
All of the existing miniatures are compatible with the new rulebook, and now you can get your collection started, or expand the troops and specialists you have in your force, with these original Deadzone faction starters.

Each one a deal in it’s own right, you can also get all 6 for $100, saving you $25 off pledging for them separately.

And finally... coming soon?!

Hmm, this really is starting to look like a decent deal now.
Looks like a case of Mantic learning their lesson with regard to value - this feels like damage control. Regardless, pretty effective damage control as far as this backer is concerned

**carboncopy**

I will happily accept a free pack of hard plastic enforcers. Thank you. They will also help me kit out all of those jet bikes.

**Bolognesus**

I don't think the peacekeepers in that bundle have arms compatible with the jetbikes - you'd need the regular enforcers for that. I don't see those coming for free anywhere - am I missing something?

**pretre**

Wow. That's going to add some value.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
About $50 more to the basic Quarantine, puts us over double value.

**Earth Dragon**

I was trying to tell people to wait if they thought the basic pledge was undervalued.....

**Alpharius**

There goes that whole 'resin plastic free zone' thing!

**Bolognesus**

True. Still, as long as they (even just mostly) stick to it wrt new stuff and main pledge levels etc it doesn't seem like a bad idea to give people the choice, at least.

**Necros**

I was gonna change my pledge to the terrain one, but decided to hold off. I might keep the game pledge after all, adding in the extra booster seems like a much better deal. I'll prolly go with the Enforcers, always wanted to get one of those Mechs so now I can

**judgedoug**

Alpharius wrote:
There goes that whole 'resin plastic free zone' thing!

the Nightmares? I've got about 100+ of the old pvc veermyn (because I'm crazy and I love them) and they are part of Mantic's initial foray into pvc... so like those KoW Orc Gore Riders, they are very cleanly cast and nearly free of mold lines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bolognesus wrote:
I don't think the peacekeepers in that bundle have arms compatible with the jetbikes - you'd need the regular enforcers for that. I don't see those coming for free anywhere - am I missing something?

" So, having moved a few things around, when we hit this stretch goal, we will unlock Deadzone: Infestation spec Faction Boosters, and you will be able to pick one FREE in a pledge of Quarantine!"

**Mymearan**

I've always wondered, and I'm not trying to be an ass here... But why are most of Mantic's sculpts sub-par compared to most other manufacturers out there? Honestly, I rarely see another manufacturer with such consistently mediocre sculpts. I like the Enforcers the most, but overall there's so much awkward posing, weird anatomy etc. Is there any particular reason for this? Sure, they're cheap as hell, but does that mean they also hire mediocre sculptors? Do they not give them enough time? Is it the art direction? I can't figure it out. They have some great sculpts, and when I see those I feel like most of their stuff is such a wasted opportunity. Even if they cured the whole Manticverse of Tiny Legs Syndrome, that still wouldn't help. Posing and anatomy. The worst part is that their rules are so good!

**judgedoug**

Mymearan wrote:
I've always wondered, and I'm not trying to be an ass here... But why are most of Mantic's sculpts sub-par compared to most other manufacturers out there? Honestly, I rarely see another manufacturer with such consistently mediocre sculpts. I like the Enforcers the most, but overall there's so much awkward posing, weird anatomy etc. Is there any particular reason for this? Sure, they're cheap as hell, but does that mean they also hire mediocre sculptors? Do they not give them enough time? Is it the art direction? I can't figure it out. They have some great sculpts, and when I see those I feel like most of their stuff is such a wasted opportunity. Even if they cured the whole Manticverse of Tiny Legs Syndrome, that still wouldn't help. Posing and anatomy.

Which sculpts? We've got Mike McVey, Bob Naismith, Remy Tremblay responsible for the lion's share of traditionally sculpted Mantic stuff. Ben Calvert-Lee is an in-house digital sculptor (Master Crafted Miniatures).