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My living situation has changed during my hiatus from gaming (in an apartment now) and the hassle of finding and then getting to a spot to spray prime legally (lol) is too much for me. So I'm wondering about brush on primers. Couple of things to keep in mind:

I'm all about "table top ready" so I don't need anything fancy.
My apartment companions are sensitive about smell ( I however have the worst sense of smell ever lol)
Would prefer it if the primer dries relatively quickly but I'll take what I can get

Vallejo has some brush on primers. Check out their site

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/primers/family/22

skycapt44 wrote:
Vallejo has some brush on primers. Check out their site

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/primers/family/22

Cool. I've heard good things about the company in general though I've never used their paints.

Has anyone used their brush on primers? I assume as long as I apply a thin coat I will be ok?

Yep. I primerirly [rimshot] airbrush the stuff on, but a test piece I coated by brush took the primer well. Just avoid overloading the surface, as the stuff is self-leveling, Great for achieving smooth coats, but means that it'll fill in details if you overdo it. Also note that this stuff dries pretty quickly, but takes longer than many other products to actually cure. Gentle brushwork may leave it intact after a few hours, but it won't stand up to direct handling until much later. Full strength takes at least 24 hours, 2-3 days is an even safer bet.

Gesso is another reasonably popular option. You can find white or black at most art and/or craft stores (Michaels carries Liquitex, Golden, and the house brand, Artist's Loft) and it's reasonably cheap. Easier to apply than Vallejo PU primer, as it shrinks significantly during drying - you can just slather the stuff on haphazardly with little or no detail loss as a result. Probably best practice to do so, actually, lest the shrinkage result in cracks or bare spots. Haven't used it, personally, but have seen plenty of writeups online that suggest it may be a good option for you.

Personally, I'll be sticking to my Vallejo PU primer, as I already have airbrush capability and am never in a rush to paint. Considering your criteria, though, I might suggest you start with the gesso - neither is particularly whiffy, but the gesso has the edge in 'time from plastic to paint-ready.'

 oadie wrote:


Gesso is another reasonably popular option. You can find white or black at most art and/or craft stores (Michaels carries Liquitex, Golden, and the house brand, Artist's Loft) and it's reasonably cheap. Easier to apply than Vallejo PU primer, as it shrinks significantly during drying - you can just slather the stuff on haphazardly with little or no detail loss as a result. Probably best practice to do so, actually, lest the shrinkage result in cracks or bare spots. Haven't used it, personally, but have seen plenty of writeups online that suggest it may be a good option for you.

Gesso is awesome stuff, especially black Gesso, though you can also get it transparent, allowing you to tint it. I've used black gesso (liquitex) on all sorts of models, and I often use it to prime one little bitty part, instead of whipping out the airbrush. Usually, it's because I change my mind on a configuration option after I've primed. Occasionally, I don't like how I do a power weapon (say, color) or something, scrape off the paint, and just slap some gesso on and do it again!

On the bright side, one medium-sized bottle of Gesso should last you five lifetimes

I would NOT recommend Gesso.

Gesso has HUGE particulates when compared to some other brush-on surface prep medium (i.e. "Primer").

And, thus, it is going to much more easily fill in details.

You have this problem with any brush-on primer, as even if it has a retarder, and flow-aid, it will still tend to settle into gaps and crevices due to surface tension and capillary action (Google-it).

Brush-on primers also suffer from leaving brush strokes.

But... In a case where you cannot use spray-paints, it is best to prime with multiple, thin coats. The first coat being thinnest, and the last being thickest, and almost dry-brushed on, so that the later coats do not settle into gaps/crevices.

It is a learned skill, just like anything in miniature painting.

But... On another question:

Is there some reason you cannot prime outdoors using regular spray primer, and then bring it indoors in a box?

Or, maybe prime when others are not at home?

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
Gesso has HUGE particulates when compared to some other brush-on surface prep medium (i.e. "Primer").

And, thus, it is going to much more easily fill in details.

I strongly disagree with the latter part of this statement. While Gesso provides a nice, roughened surface to paint on (the goal of any primer), in my opinion, black liquitex gesso covers less detail than any Army Painter spray primer (which goes on qujite thick). It dries very flat, and is a very nice painting canvas. When we go on vacation, I take it with me, because a littel bit in a used Citadel paint potwill do everything I need while I'm out of town (and then some).

This model was prepped entirely with Gesso, unthinned. The weathering on the barrel is done with Gesso as well, and black ring around the base was done with Gesso. The base ring is not painted over, so that should give you an indication of what 1 coat of Gesso looks like.



Now, I'm not saying that Gesso can compare with airbrushed polyurethane primers... but really, nothing can.

Out of curiosity, I just brush primered a plastic model with Badger's Stynylrez black airbrush primer. Thinned it about 1:1 and it went on nice, dried fast, and left a great finish. Going to let it cure for a day and see how it holds up.

BeAfraid wrote:

But... On another question:

Is there some reason you cannot prime outdoors using regular spray primer, and then bring it indoors in a box?

Well I could go do it outside and risk getting a ticket. I'd have to walk awhile to even get somewhere where I wouldn't look like an insane person spray painting a box on a sidewalk as dozens of people walk by. So yeah, if I walk far enough I could get to a public park... which would have to be at some weird off time, like 10 AM on Tuesday, so not too many people would see me and bug me and ask what the hell I am doing so I guess I'd have to take off work or something? And still hope The Fuzz doesn't see me?

Super Newb wrote:
My living situation has changed during my hiatus from gaming (in an apartment now) and the hassle of finding and then getting to a spot to spray prime legally (lol) is too much for me. So I'm wondering about brush on primers. Couple of things to keep in mind:

I'm all about "table top ready" so I don't need anything fancy.
My apartment companions are sensitive about smell ( I however have the worst sense of smell ever lol)
Would prefer it if the primer dries relatively quickly but I'll take what I can get

Are you in the city? If not, just prime outside. I do it on my apartment's lawn and noone's ever cared (including police, who thought it was cool)

I've used Americana Multi-Purpose Sealer as a primer/basecoat before. It dries clear, so you might want to mix it with another color (e.g. flat black) to ensure you don't miss any spots. Minimal odor, brushes on nicely (self leveling), oh yeah and it's cheap! Dries in about 10 mins. Not as much "tooth" as a real primer, but in my experience it works pretty well on Citadel plastic minis.
Product link: http://decoart.com/cgi-bin/Products.cgi?Multi-Purpose_Sealer

Something that I have used for years that works quite well is not technically a primer. I like to use Model Master acrylic Aircraft Interior Black. It bonds well to plastic, resin, and metals, goes on thin as to not obscure details, and after a couple coats the brush strokes really do not show at all. It serves very well for gaming miniatures and models that are going to be handled frequently and resists flaking and chipping really well. It dries to a very fine satin matte black that I find has a rather nice tooth for painting on. It is cheap and readily available in most hobby stores, so give it a shot.

Super Newb wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

But... On another question:

Is there some reason you cannot prime outdoors using regular spray primer, and then bring it indoors in a box?

Well I could go do it outside and risk getting a ticket. I'd have to walk awhile to even get somewhere where I wouldn't look like an insane person spray painting a box on a sidewalk as dozens of people walk by. So yeah, if I walk far enough I could get to a public park... which would have to be at some weird off time, like 10 AM on Tuesday, so not too many people would see me and bug me and ask what the hell I am doing so I guess I'd have to take off work or something? And still hope The Fuzz doesn't see me?

Where do you live that spray painting is illegal outdoors?

MB

I've been using brush on primer for my last few minis because Canadian winters suck and I can't be bothered to run outside, spray quick, run back in to let the spray warm up blah blah etc.

Anyways, I've been using both the Vallejo PU, and the GW Imperial primers with a brush, the Vallejo straight black one is tough to come by locally as it sells out quick but I have managed to get some other very dark grey I think it's "Panzer Grey" or something along those lines, it is almost black.

The Vallejo primer is very good, I didn't thin it at all, used it on some space wolves and I found I didn't need to be too too careful, just used a size 2 brush and went to town, zero loss of detail, zero brush strokes. However, the Vallejo "Grey" PU primer is complete garbage I found when used with a brush. It is very light, almost white and acts more like a wash when placed on the plastic, and I found it basically clogs detail so I'd stay away from that one if you don't have an airbrush. Also, brush strokes galore with the grey primer.

Onto the GW Imperial primer, this stuff is great as long as you're careful. Again I found you can use it straight from the pot, actually if you do add water it kind of screws it up and it'll bead on the plastic. You don't have to be too careful with this stuff either, it shrinks a bit and preserves detail beautifully. HOWEVER, when it is dried, don't even look at your mini the wrong way, don't even breathe on it cause the stuff will scratch off, it is in no way durable whatsoever. But it hasn't been an issue for me cause I sticky tack my minis to a bottle cap and paint that way. Just make sure you seal the mini when you're done and I'd imagine that'd take care of the durability issues with this primer.

One upside to the measly durability of the GW Imperial primer though, it strips off incredibly easily, and quickly. So if you decide you don't like your paint job, or screw up, you can get the model back to it's original state with no hassle, the paint basically slides off the mini after a quick bath of super clean or simple green or whatever.

Good luck!

BeAfraid wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

But... On another question:

Is there some reason you cannot prime outdoors using regular spray primer, and then bring it indoors in a box?

Well I could go do it outside and risk getting a ticket. I'd have to walk awhile to even get somewhere where I wouldn't look like an insane person spray painting a box on a sidewalk as dozens of people walk by. So yeah, if I walk far enough I could get to a public park... which would have to be at some weird off time, like 10 AM on Tuesday, so not too many people would see me and bug me and ask what the hell I am doing so I guess I'd have to take off work or something? And still hope The Fuzz doesn't see me?

Where do you live that spray painting is illegal outdoors?

MB

I was curious too. A few minutes of searching turned up some interesting info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_in_the_United_States#Government_response
http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byrnes-barbershop/2011/11/just-having-a-can-of-insoluble-spray-paint-in-chicago-will-be-illegal/
http://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/1856jd/chicago_spraypaint_ban_information_effects_and/
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-117
Laws vary from state to state, but it looks like NYC and Chicago have very strict laws on the sale and possession of aerosol spray paint cans. Who knew?

I've been using the Vallejo green brown surface primer; for Bafd Moon orks I've needed AP coloured spay primers, which are quite heavy, so brush on primer works really well in nooks and crannies, helping me have to add too much with the spray. The Vallejo is good stuff and seems to paint on really evenly, for what it is.

You should think about getting an airbrush set up then if your local laws make priming hard.

Then pawn it off to some one else that needs to paint. or rent it out and make some cash back.

If you need things to dry quicker try an hair dryer. its pretty indispensable to the impatient painter

You can brush on Vallejo surface primer too. (i like to when i find i missed a spot on the airbrush but dont feel like whipping it out)

I have used reaper, vallejo and taymia brush on primers.

I have got best results from the vallejo and reaper.

just an important note if you go for vallejo - make sure you get actual primer - they have several paint colors with the name primer in them! (their grey primer paint, is paint in the color of grey primer used on submarines and tanks, for example, its not an actual primer).

best of luck!

 PaintingNub wrote:
One upside to the measly durability of the GW Imperial primer though, it strips off incredibly easily, and quickly. So if you decide you don't like your paint job, or screw up, you can get the model back to it's original state with no hassle, the paint basically slides off the mini after a quick bath of super clean or simple green or whatever.

Ease of stripping is also a benefit of the Vallejo PU primers, without the downside of low durability in general use. The stuff's strength comes not from it's hold on the substrate, like a self-etching metal primer, but from forming a resilient skin over the surface. After a soak in Simple Green, the stuff lifts off in sheets, even when properly cured, taking any subsequently applied paint with it.

UPDATE:

So I tried out some black gesso that an acquaintance let me borrow. Stuff worked pretty darn well. You have to put a lot more on the model compared to when you paint on regular paint on account of the shrinkage during drying... anyway, I am a fan.

I'll use this when I have a few models here and there I want to prime. If I have tons of stuff I think I'd wait until I went out of time and visited someone with a yard so I could spray prime lol.

Super Newb wrote:
UPDATE:

So I tried out some black gesso that an acquaintance let me borrow. Stuff worked pretty darn well. You have to put a lot more on the model compared to when you paint on regular paint on account of the shrinkage during drying... anyway, I am a fan.

I'll use this when I have a few models here and there I want to prime. If I have tons of stuff I think I'd wait until I went out of time and visited someone with a yard so I could spray prime lol.

Yeah, it only took one use for me to be a fan too -- especially compared to rattle cans. To me, the two best features are that it doesn't have to be applied very carefully or evenly, and that it's super portable for vacationing. I am glad you found something that works for you, bud!

I have started airbrushing on all my primers, you get better control, and no serious smell and dries fast. I also live in Florida, land of 100% humidity. Airbrushing works better for all those reasons.

Also a big fan of Gesso and Vallejo brush on primer.

Gesso is cheaper and great for priming things like scenery. It is true that you can just glop it all over a model and it will contract down, but it does seem to be a little less resistant to chipping than the primer. The Vallejo brush on primer is fantastic. I've never had a problem with brush strokes.

There are several things to recommend either or both. You don't need to be careful with humidity, temperature, fumes, or overspray. That's really, really nice. All of the things (living in the humid American southeast) that can prevent me from priming a model when I want to just go out the window.

You also can just prime one model if that's what you want to work on. You don't need to engage in the whole airbrush cleaning regimen with a brush on primer. Prime the model and clean the brush.

Finally, Vallejo brush on primer has really let me work on models in a different way. Since I can control where the primer goes, I can much more easily work on sub-assemblies. Put together the driver and the cockpit. Prime and paint them. Insert them into the model. Prime and paint around them, etc. I can really easily paint hard-to-reach areas, then assemble parts of the model in front of them, then paint those. It gives a LOT of flexibility.

I am a huge fan of Vallejo's brush on polyurethane primer. The black one is amazing. It is self leveling so you get no brushstrokes. When it is cured it also tougher than spray on primer. It has more or less replaced spray primer for me, it gives better results and I don't have to care about the weather.

I brush prime all my minis since I moved into an apartment myself.

I just use watered down citadel foundation color (and I usually go with astronomican grey since I prefer grey as a primer color.

Super Newb wrote:
UPDATE:

So I tried out some black gesso that an acquaintance let me borrow. Stuff worked pretty darn well. You have to put a lot more on the model compared to when you paint on regular paint on account of the shrinkage during drying... anyway, I am a fan.

I'll use this when I have a few models here and there I want to prime. If I have tons of stuff I think I'd wait until I went out of time and visited someone with a yard so I could spray prime lol.

Glad it worked out for you. I'm also a "tabletop" painter and I've been using gesso for years. The only difference is that for most figures I use white gesso to keep the colors bright before I dip. I still use black gesso for some terrain and vehicles though.

Gesso's shrinkage makes it easy to apply fast and thick without worry and as long as you varnish the figures after painting they'll be just as sturdy as any other primer. Winsor Newton Galleria Acrylic Matte varnish is a great affordable brush-on option if you don't already have one. Goes on nicely strait from the bottle and dries fast.

Rugged_Seahorse wrote:
I have started airbrushing on all my primers, you get better control, and no serious smell and dries fast. I also live in Florida, land of 100% humidity. Airbrushing works better for all those reasons.

I airbrush prime 99% of my models. However, there are times when I forgot to airbrush one part (or changed my mind on a weapon), and I don't want to take the 15 minutes to set up and clean up for the 3 seconds it will take to prime the grav gun. Also, if you need to take it with you on a trip, airbrush really doesn't work (unless you're REALLY dedicated, and your wife/girlfriend is very understanding Two suitcases for hair products, hot rollers, flat irons, and strange tools of hair torture is cool, but wtf, an AIRBRUSH COMPRESSOR???).

By the way gesso also has no smell, has excellent control, and dries very quickly. It just doesn't give the absolute, 100% perfect, ultrathin coat that you can achieve with airbrush primer (also in pretty much whatever color you want to start with).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:


Glad it worked out for you. I'm also a "tabletop" painter and I've been using gesso for years. The only difference is that for most figures I use white gesso to keep the colors bright before I dip. I still use black gesso for some terrain and vehicles though.

Gesso's shrinkage makes it easy to apply fast and thick without worry and as long as you varnish the figures after painting they'll be just as sturdy as any other primer. Winsor Newton Galleria Acrylic Matte varnish is a great affordable brush-on option if you don't already have one. Goes on nicely strait from the bottle and dries fast.

Hey Eilif, what brand of white gesso do you use? I find Liquitex White does not go on as evenly as Liquitex Black.

I use liquitex. I don't worry about a perfectly even undercoat when priming with white.

 Eilif wrote:
Gesso's shrinkage makes it easy to apply fast and thick without worry and as long as you varnish the figures after painting they'll be just as sturdy as any other primer.

I've never varnished my models. Should I do that once I finish my gesso primed models? Is gesso really noticeably less durable?

I highly recommend gesso. I've had great luck with it.

I also recommend varnishing your models, especially if you are using them for gaming. I usually do a coat of gloss (it tends to protect better, due to being harder) and then a second coat of matte to kill the shine. I haven't had any trouble with gesso primed models after varnishing them.