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 r_squared wrote:
Trukks are 30 points a piece. Plus, call a Waaagh and get to Move, Run and Charge, with a re-roll on charge distance thanks to ere we go.
You know you want to.

That's plausible, but the Orks aren't all that attractive to me in terms of an Allied Detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Besides all of them being fluff abominations, I think only Tyranids fails to mesh well in gameplay terms.

I think I mentioned it somewhere above, but I'm decidedly more interested in combat efficiency than staying true to the fluff. On that note, why don't you think Nids would mesh well?

 the_kraken wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Trukks are 30 points a piece. Plus, call a Waaagh and get to Move, Run and Charge, with a re-roll on charge distance thanks to ere we go.
You know you want to.

That's plausible, but the Orks aren't all that attractive to me in terms of an Allied Detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Besides all of them being fluff abominations, I think only Tyranids fails to mesh well in gameplay terms.

I think I mentioned it somewhere above, but I'm decidedly more interested in combat efficiency than staying true to the fluff. On that note, why don't you think Nids would mesh well?

So, here's my thoughts on it.

A big thing is target saturation. Necrons and SW's have more units with similar types and roles than Tyranids do that an opponent will have to concentrate on, allowing you to overwhelm AT capabilities and the like.

Another is Deathstar CC units. Tyranids, oddly enough, don't really have any of these, and thus you're better off going with Necrons for Wraiths and TWC's for Space Wolves than say, Warriors from Tyranids. Most of the MC's don't really hold a candle to the speed, killing power, and resiliency of these two units.

The only really big thing that Tyranids would really offer is FMC's, and that's primarily another anti-infantry/light-vehicle shooting unit, just a very durable one, and you'll likely already have all the anti-infantry/light-vehicle-AT you'll need.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Trukks are 30 points a piece. Plus, call a Waaagh and get to Move, Run and Charge, with a re-roll on charge distance thanks to ere we go.
You know you want to.

That's plausible, but the Orks aren't all that attractive to me in terms of an Allied Detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Besides all of them being fluff abominations, I think only Tyranids fails to mesh well in gameplay terms.

I think I mentioned it somewhere above, but I'm decidedly more interested in combat efficiency than staying true to the fluff. On that note, why don't you think Nids would mesh well?

So, here's my thoughts on it.

A big thing is target saturation. Necrons and SW's have more units with similar types and roles than Tyranids do that an opponent will have to concentrate on, allowing you to overwhelm AT capabilities and the like.

Another is Deathstar CC units. Tyranids, oddly enough, don't really have any of these, and thus you're better off going with Necrons for Wraiths and TWC's for Space Wolves than say, Warriors from Tyranids. Most of the MC's don't really hold a candle to the speed, killing power, and resiliency of these two units.

The only really big thing that Tyranids would really offer is FMC's, and that's primarily another anti-infantry/light-vehicle shooting unit, just a very durable one, and you'll likely already have all the anti-infantry/light-vehicle-AT you'll need.

I had assumed Tyranids would have some solid CC unit choices, so this is fairly eye-opening on that front. It might have been in this thread, but I was talking about possibly getting a unit of TWC and a Runic Priest to roll around with my Primary Detachment.

Remember, you can't shootvat units locked in melee.

Wraiths are fast, incredibly resilient (especially when fielded as part of Canoptek Harvest formation) but not very killy. With 3 S6 AP- Rending attacks they struggle a bit to kill armored stuff. For example, if my early morning maths hasn't failed me, it takes on average 3 combat phases (so 2 turns) for a 6 man wraith squad with Whip Coils to chew through a 10 man tactical squad.

If you want melee, I feel SW will be a better combinatiin with Tau. TWC kills rather quickly and their HQ (Rune Priest) guves you much needed psychic dice.

LordBlades wrote:
Remember, you can't shootvat units locked in melee.

Wraiths are fast, incredibly resilient (especially when fielded as part of Canoptek Harvest formation) but not very killy. With 3 S6 AP- Rending attacks they struggle a bit to kill armored stuff. For example, if my early morning maths hasn't failed me, it takes on average 3 combat phases (so 2 turns) for a 6 man wraith squad with Whip Coils to chew through a 10 man tactical squad.

If you want melee, I feel SW will be a better combinatiin with Tau. TWC kills rather quickly and their HQ (Rune Priest) guves you much needed psychic dice.

I knew I couldn't shoot at units locked in melee combat, that's totally fine. But, as you said, Wraiths aren't very killy. While the Assault distraction would be useful, I'd prefer to have CC units that can really put out some hurt, hence I've been leaning towards SW.

I do feel like Necrons would be good in certain situations for making an overly shooty army.

 the_kraken wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Trukks are 30 points a piece. Plus, call a Waaagh and get to Move, Run and Charge, with a re-roll on charge distance thanks to ere we go.
You know you want to.

That's plausible, but the Orks aren't all that attractive to me in terms of an Allied Detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Besides all of them being fluff abominations, I think only Tyranids fails to mesh well in gameplay terms.

I think I mentioned it somewhere above, but I'm decidedly more interested in combat efficiency than staying true to the fluff. On that note, why don't you think Nids would mesh well?

So, here's my thoughts on it.

A big thing is target saturation. Necrons and SW's have more units with similar types and roles than Tyranids do that an opponent will have to concentrate on, allowing you to overwhelm AT capabilities and the like.

Another is Deathstar CC units. Tyranids, oddly enough, don't really have any of these, and thus you're better off going with Necrons for Wraiths and TWC's for Space Wolves than say, Warriors from Tyranids. Most of the MC's don't really hold a candle to the speed, killing power, and resiliency of these two units.

The only really big thing that Tyranids would really offer is FMC's, and that's primarily another anti-infantry/light-vehicle shooting unit, just a very durable one, and you'll likely already have all the anti-infantry/light-vehicle-AT you'll need.

I had assumed Tyranids would have some solid CC unit choices, so this is fairly eye-opening on that front. It might have been in this thread, but I was talking about possibly getting a unit of TWC and a Runic Priest to roll around with my Primary Detachment.

Yeah, the bigger issue is that Wraiths and TWC's just do it better. Tyranids have some CC stuff, but almost all of it has very common hard-counters, while units like TWC's and Wraiths not only are fast, not only are they very killy, but incredibly hard to kill no matter what you throw at them.

Tyranid CC units unfortunately lack such resiliency, and either have the killy power or the speed, but not both. Warriors for instance are only T4, leaving them far more vulnerable to Instant Death, and don't have the strong armor or invul saves to rely on, nor can they really play much in the way of wound allocation gimmicks. So they're killy, but slow and easily dealt with. Meanwhile, something like a Trygon is big, and for a single model is relatively killy, but surprisingly not that killy, and lacks the survivability of many far cheaper units like Dreadknights or Riptides on top of having nothing near the same level of shooting. Tyranids largely function by having lots of Flying Monstrous Creatures buzzing around shooting stuff. It's an unfortunate reality of the edition and codex design.

Now, that said, it can be argued that Wraiths and TWC's both are absurdly out of whack with the rest of the gam, and that's true, they're fairly autopilot point-click-win units in many instances. But if you're looking for a CC component to add to a Tau army and don't care about the background, either unit will generally serve better in that capacity than anything Tyranids can bring.

LordBlades wrote:
Remember, you can't shootvat units locked in melee.

Wraiths are fast, incredibly resilient (especially when fielded as part of Canoptek Harvest formation) but not very killy. With 3 S6 AP- Rending attacks they struggle a bit to kill armored stuff. For example, if my early morning maths hasn't failed me, it takes on average 3 combat phases (so 2 turns) for a 6 man wraith squad with Whip Coils to chew through a 10 man tactical squad.

If you want melee, I feel SW will be a better combinatiin with Tau. TWC kills rather quickly and their HQ (Rune Priest) guves you much needed psychic dice.

If the Wraiths are getting the charge, it's highly likely they're killing the marine unit in 2 rounds, likely only taking one, *maybe* two wounds in return. Having successfully hid in their opponent's shooting phase, they kill off the tac squad in the opponent's assault phase and get to engage a new target in their own turn.

Yes, they're not as killy as a kitted out TWC unit, but they're likely to be much cheaper, and still very killy.

 Vaktathi wrote:


Yes, they're not as killy as a kitted out TWC unit, but they're likely to be much cheaper, and still very killy.

I wish I could remember which thread it was in, but me and some guy were talking about TWC and he figured that a kitted out unit plus a Runic Priest would come out to about 375 points. That being said, I'm not sure of the specifics.

Sounds about right. They can get pricey, but they can more than equal points of most other units thrown against them, particularly if they get to play wound allocation gimmicks.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Sounds about right. They can get pricey, but they can more than equal points of most other units thrown against them, particularly if they get to play wound allocation gimmicks.

As long as they can pull their weight and add to the body count, that's all that matters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, would it be better to mount the Runic Priest on a Thunderwolf or a bike?

The Twolf add's +1 to a bunch of stats and Rending, the Bike gives you the ability to Jink and a TL'd bolter. In most cases, the Twolf would probably be better I think.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Twolf add's +1 to a bunch of stats and Rending, the Bike gives you the ability to Jink and a TL'd bolter. In most cases, the Twolf would probably be better I think.

Glad to hear it. I'll probably go for TWC with the RP then. Any idea where I'd be able to get a TW without a rider?

I don't unfortunately :(

How about not allying at all?

Necrons or Tyranids sound way too extreme. You can't even ally with Tyranids - nothing can, except Tyranids.

Space wolves even more extreme (even though you can technically ally - 'Desperate' ).


Playing any of these regularly as allies with the Tau is a bit odd - IMO.

If you are bent on having one, maybe Eldar or Astra Militarum?

 kveldulf wrote:


Necrons or Tyranids sound way too extreme. You can't even ally with Tyranids - nothing can, except Tyranids.

You can, thanks to Come the Apocalypse. The penalties aren't that meaningful anyway.

The ally matrix has very little to do with fluff. It's way easier to justify for example Tau finding a way to control a small group of Tyranids (CtA by the ally matrix) than Black Templars workimg together with Grry Knights (Battle Brothers by the ally matrix) for example.

 kveldulf wrote:
How about not allying at all?

Necrons or Tyranids sound way too extreme. You can't even ally with Tyranids - nothing can, except Tyranids.

Necrons are Allies of Convenience I believe. That doesn't sound at all extreme to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I don't unfortunately :(

Single Thunderwolves appear to be plentiful on eBay. So, when the time comes, I could probably just watch the auctions for a while until a decently priced one pops up. Thanks for the advice with SW anyway though.

Can you even put a Rune Priest on a Wolf though?

Battlescribe says you can't, and so does
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609865.page

LordBlades wrote:
Can you even put a Rune Priest on a Wolf though?

Battlescribe says you can't, and so does
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609865.page

You're absolutely right. I must have misread something somewhere. Can they be mounted on bikes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, they can be mounted on bikes.

Right now,this thread has made me contemplate adding SW allues to my own Tau as well

Yup, rune priests can get bikes or jump packs to give them the same 12 inch move that Calvary have.

Raven Cowl wrote:
Yup, rune priests can get bikes or jump packs to give them the same 12 inch move that Calvary have.

Are any stats I'll need to know about bikes in the standard rulebook? Or is there more stuff elsewhere?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordBlades wrote:
Right now,this thread has made me contemplate adding SW allues to my own Tau as well

From what I remember, your list already looked pretty solid, so SW could only make it better.

 the_kraken wrote:

Raven Cowl wrote:
Yup, rune priests can get bikes or jump packs to give them the same 12 inch move that Calvary have.

Are any stats I'll need to know about bikes in the standard rulebook? Or is there more stuff elsewhere?

It's in the big rule book under unit types. The main draw to the bike is that it can go anywhere the Calvary can.

Raven Cowl wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:

Raven Cowl wrote:
Yup, rune priests can get bikes or jump packs to give them the same 12 inch move that Calvary have.

Are any stats I'll need to know about bikes in the standard rulebook? Or is there more stuff elsewhere?

It's in the big rule book under unit types. The main draw to the bike is that it can go anywhere the Calvary can.

I assumed as much, I just wasn't sure if there was any other additional information I'd need to be aware of. Thank you again, though.