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Looking to build a tight tournament list with no knights. I am set on the walkers as they perform for me but any thoughts on the other units? I am thinking of maybe dropping the farseer and running another squad of 6 spiders - potentially I could even run 3 squads of 10 if I drop the scythes and some of this walkers guns too!

Far seer - bike
Spirit seer

5 wraithguard - d scythes
5 cannonguard

2*Serpents - scatter, cannon, holo, vectored engines

2*9 warp spiders

3*3 walkers - scatter lasers

No Knights?!?! Whats wrong with you, do you not like winning?

I'm just kidding. The list looks pretty good, though I agree the Farseer is a little out of place. If you drop him, I would not get more Spyders, as you seem to have enough. At least 2 units of 3 Jetbikes would really help this list.

I would also consider mixing some Starcannons or Shuricannons on the WarWalkers. Double Scats are nice, but you miss out on the Laser-lock rule.

Mixing in Shuricannons on 1 unit helps keep them cheap and gives you a nice Outflank unit. I personally field 3 Walkers with only 2 Scats in the whole unit. That way I can place the double Shuricannon Walker up front as the first casualty.

You could do something similar by having 1 Double Scat WW up front, with 2 WWs with Scat & Starcannon behind. Or have 2 WW with Scat/Shuri up front and 1 Double Scat in the rear.

Hornets.

 Galef wrote:
No Knights?!?! Whats wrong with you, do you not like winning?

I'm just kidding. The list looks pretty good, though I agree the Farseer is a little out of place. If you drop him, I would not get more Spyders, as you seem to have enough. At least 2 units of 3 Jetbikes would really help this list.

I would also consider mixing some Starcannons or Shuricannons on the WarWalkers. Double Scats are nice, but you miss out on the Laser-lock rule.

Mixing in Shuricannons on 1 unit helps keep them cheap and gives you a nice Outflank unit. I personally field 3 Walkers with only 2 Scats in the whole unit. That way I can place the double Shuricannon Walker up front as the first casualty.

You could do something similar by having 1 Double Scat WW up front, with 2 WWs with Scat & Starcannon behind. Or have 2 WW with Scat/Shuri up front and 1 Double Scat in the rear.

Cannot have enough spiders! Haha. My theory with spiders is they are the standout of their section so might as well pack as many in as possible.

I actually have some jetbikes in my normal list so how does this look:

Far seer - bike

2*3 bikes

5 fire dragons (should I just stick with more cannongaurd?)
5 cannonguard

2*Serpents - scatter, cannon, holo, vectored engines

2*8 spiders, 1*7 spiders

3*3 walkers - mixed

My thinking here is that if I have 2 bilkes I don't need the spirit seer to keep the guard troops so I can replace him with a farseer (for twin linking) and save money on a squad of guard by changing for dragons who are nearly as good. Extra points I've then spent on more spiders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkLink wrote:
Hornets.

Hornets are a good shout but my worry at a tournament is how official their rules are (and also if the touny allows FW). Is the 5 points per pulse laser in any of the FW books?

I like the second list better with the exception, that now your Wave Serpents don't have ObSec. I'd find a way to keep the Spiritseer just for that

 Galef wrote:
I like the second list better with the exception, that now your Wave Serpents don't have ObSec. I'd find a way to keep the Spiritseer just for that

On that theme;

Farseer - bike, spear
Spirit seer

3 jet bikes
2*5 wraith guard in serpents (holo, cannon, scatter)

3*7 spiders

2*3 walkers - mix
3 walkers shuri cannons

I could also drop the farseer and take more 3 more bikes and 3 more spiders but I like him for generating dice - I think the spiritseer on his own might struggle to be an effective psycher with just D6+2. Also the twinlinking helps get some fire power back.

That makes sense to me but I know 2 HQs are a cardinal sin of Elder lists so I dunno!

I use to be a strict adherent to never mixing weapons on WWs however a buddy got me hooked on using Scatter Laser/ Bright Lance and Holo Field set up. This will also help if you run into any high armor and especially Lords of War.

 Zerib wrote:
I use to be a strict adherent to never mixing weapons on WWs however a buddy got me hooked on using Scatter Laser/ Bright Lance and Holo Field set up. This will also help if you run into any high armor and especially Lords of War.

I usually mathhammer it depending on what I am facing. Double SL for invuln spammers and general all comers, SL+SC for TEQ and double lances for anti armour

Zippokovich wrote:

Farseer - bike, spear
Spirit seer

3 jet bikes
2*5 wraith guard in serpents (holo, cannon, scatter)

3*7 spiders

2*3 walkers - mix
3 walkers shuri cannons

I could also drop the farseer and take more 3 more bikes and 3 more spiders but I like him for generating dice - I think the spiritseer on his own might struggle to be an effective psycher with just D6+2. Also the twinlinking helps get some fire power back.

That makes sense to me but I know 2 HQs are a cardinal sin of Elder lists so I dunno!

This list is SOOO close to perfect, imo. You do need the extra bike unit for objectives. What about dropping 3 spiders for the second unit of bikes? or Just 1 WW from the Shuricannon unit?

 Galef wrote:

Zippokovich wrote:

Farseer - bike, spear
Spirit seer

3 jet bikes
2*5 wraith guard in serpents (holo, cannon, scatter)

3*7 spiders

2*3 walkers - mix
3 walkers shuri cannons

I could also drop the farseer and take more 3 more bikes and 3 more spiders but I like him for generating dice - I think the spiritseer on his own might struggle to be an effective psycher with just D6+2. Also the twinlinking helps get some fire power back.

That makes sense to me but I know 2 HQs are a cardinal sin of Elder lists so I dunno!

This list is SOOO close to perfect, imo. You do need the extra bike unit for objectives. What about dropping 3 spiders for the second unit of bikes? or Just 1 WW from the Shuricannon unit?

I could do but do I really need them? I already have 2 toughness 6 troops squads, 2 troop serpents that can move to take objectives and a unit of bikes for rapid response. Thats 5 hardy objective secured units which seems a lot more than most lists!

Zippokovich wrote:
Thats 5 hardy objective secured units which seems a lot more than most lists!

That is why it will be better than other lists

I can only speak from experience, as I run 2x 5 Dires in Serpents AND 2x4 Jetbikes, and I usually get them where they need to be. You are planning on using Wraithguard, which cant afford to hide in the Serpent all game. Once you move close for the WG to disembark, the Serpents are now at their most vulnerable spot...in charge range of the enemy.

If both your Serpents go down, there is little chance the WG will be able to move fast enough to get to a "safe" objective. While true, you can disembark them near an objective, but your opponent should know how slow they are and can adapt faster. Having 2 units of Jetbikes (starting in reserve) gives you more opportunities for late-game objective sniping. With only 1 unit, your opponent may decide to focus on, and kill it.

Tons of firepower is awesome, but most games are won on Objectives.

 Galef wrote:

Zippokovich wrote:
Thats 5 hardy objective secured units which seems a lot more than most lists!

That is why it will be better than other lists

I can only speak from experience, as I run 2x 5 Dires in Serpents AND 2x4 Jetbikes, and I usually get them where they need to be. You are planning on using Wraithguard, which cant afford to hide in the Serpent all game. Once you move close for the WG to disembark, the Serpents are now at their most vulnerable spot...in charge range of the enemy.

If both your Serpents go down, there is little chance the WG will be able to move fast enough to get to a "safe" objective. While true, you can disembark them near an objective, but your opponent should know how slow they are and can adapt faster. Having 2 units of Jetbikes (starting in reserve) gives you more opportunities for late-game objective sniping. With only 1 unit, your opponent may decide to focus on, and kill it.

Tons of firepower is awesome, but most games are won on Objectives.

You make a good point, played a game today (small and kill points pick up game) and my serpent got changed and imobalised turn 2.

The top Eldar list at Caledonian uprising this year ran all Wraithguard and Serpents, because once you run enough Serpents - you will definitely get a chunk of the wraithguard into shooting range and they will kill plenty with str 10 ap 2. Also they are hard to kill with T6.

 Kholzerino wrote:
The top Eldar list at Caledonian uprising this year ran all Wraithguard and Serpents, because once you run enough Serpents - you will definitely get a chunk of the wraithguard into shooting range and they will kill plenty with str 10 ap 2. Also they are hard to kill with T6.

Do you have any links to example lists?

Last winning lists I saw had DA in serpents but I'm not a fan of that

If you aren't taking knights you usually spam serpents, which you aren't doing either. And by the looks of it you aren't spending your points very efficiently on the things that do the most killing. So what are you focusing on?

Focus on the points to damage ratios in the book for the best units and load outs, you may be surprised by the results

My wraithguard list has knights and looks like this:
2 Knights (1 suncannon)
4x 5 wraithguard in serpents
Spiritseer with stones

You could easily drop the 540pts of knights into 2 or 3 squads of spiders. Although you lose a lot of scare and durability out of the list.

I can tell you the list I'm referring to because it's dead simple.

Spiritseer

5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)

 Kholzerino wrote:
I can tell you the list I'm referring to because it's dead simple.

Spiritseer

5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)
5 Wraithguard (basic)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, holofields)

Which is awesome mostly because the serpents do practically all the work, The wraithguard are just for giggles after that.

 Ravenous D wrote:
If you aren't taking knights you usually spam serpents, which you aren't doing either. And by the looks of it you aren't spending your points very efficiently on the things that do the most killing. So what are you focusing on?

Focus on the points to damage ratios in the book for the best units and load outs, you may be surprised by the results

My wraithguard list has knights and looks like this:
2 Knights (1 suncannon)
4x 5 wraithguard in serpents
Spiritseer with stones

You could easily drop the 540pts of knights into 2 or 3 squads of spiders. Although you lose a lot of scare and durability out of the list.

If by focusing you mean making the list homogeneous, I'm not because I don't find a list like that fun to play.

Well you want a tight tournament list but putting restrictions on yourself from using the best options. That's counter productive. But I get it, you don't want soulless you want something with a little flare.

Go footdar then. Lots of variety in units and rules and is actually pretty decent but not over the top.

Guardians blobs with a farseer carrying shard is an anchor unit for psychic support.