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Do the returning spores give away kill points?

Sporefield: Each time a Mucolid Spore Cluster or Spore Mine Cluster from this
Formation is completely destroyed, roll a D6: on a 4+ you can immediately place a new
unit into Ongoing Reserve that is identical in terms of the original number of models,
weapons and upgrades to the unit that was just destroyed. These new units count as being
part of the original Formation, so roll a D6 as described above if they are subsequently
destroyed. Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this Formation that have
been completely destroyed.

Based on the wording above, I'd say yes, returning units are meant to give away victory points when destroyed. Otherwise, the rule text would be completely superfluous. This is how I've played it (and it's been a significant drawback, bleeding kill points like crazy). But I've seen people arguing otherwise based on the following:

'Victory points awarded as normal' - so let's look at what is normal for the spores:

Living Bomb: Spore Mine Clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. They do
not award Victory Points when destroyed

So 'as normal' mean they don't give up any victory points at all.

How do you play the Sporefield Formation?

No points awarded at all, due to the Living Bomb rule.

rigeld2 wrote:
No points awarded at all, due to the Living Bomb rule.

Then why point out that Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this Formation that have been completely destroyed? The only way it makes sense, is if GW ment that they should give away kill points (like normal units normally does).

 N.I.B. wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No points awarded at all, due to the Living Bomb rule.

Then why point out that Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this Formation that have been completely destroyed? The only way it makes sense, is if GW ment that they should give away kill points (like normal units normally does).

Not true. - it helps clarify that regenerated units follow the normal rules for kill points; for models with Living Bomb, they don't award a KP when destroyed.

They give kill points as normal spore mines units... so none at all.

rigeld2 wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No points awarded at all, due to the Living Bomb rule.

Then why point out that Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this Formation that have been completely destroyed? The only way it makes sense, is if GW ment that they should give away kill points (like normal units normally does).

Not true. - it helps clarify that regenerated units follow the normal rules for kill points; for models with Living Bomb, they don't award a KP when destroyed.

I would agree, if not for the wording in the rule named Sporefield, that specifically points out that the units from this formation give away kill points as normal. There's no wording about regenerated units in general to be found. Evidence points to new units giving away kill points.

As Normal = zero. Remove that line and you would be correct.

this is worded really derp. they have the living bomb rule, there's no need for the line about VP in the first damn place...

I believe it is just a poor coy paste either Endless Swarm or Skyblight. Both formations have the same rule.

good point.

barnowl wrote:
I believe it is just a poor coy paste either Endless Swarm or Skyblight. Both formations have the same rule.

Good point. I sure hope my TO's agree with you. I've played 3 games with Sporefield Formation, and it just bleeds kill points.

 N.I.B. wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No points awarded at all, due to the Living Bomb rule.

Then why point out that Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this Formation that have been completely destroyed? The only way it makes sense, is if GW ment that they should give away kill points (like normal units normally does).

Because GW cannot edit their books for crap and they copy pasted that text from other formations with similar rules.

Follow up question. Do Mucaloid spores/ spore mines grant first blood if destroyed?

No, they do not count for victory points.

 gigasnail wrote:
this is worded really derp. they have the living bomb rule, there's no need for the line about VP in the first damn place...

Well there is. If it's not mentioned "... as normal" then there would be people who argue that they do give out Victory Points. This way "... as normal" is as normal as Spore Mines go. So no Victory Points. It's clarifying what they give. They give out nothing. Otherwise there would be people who say they do give it because GW didn't say they didn't.

no, there isn't a point for the rule, because even the new spores have the living bomb rule, not giving up VP.

So how would this interact with maelstrom rules. Destroy x number of units to achieve x number of victory points? Overwhelming firepower for example.

Backlash wrote:
So how would this interact with maelstrom rules. Destroy x number of units to achieve x number of victory points? Overwhelming firepower for example.

Living Bomb: Spore Mine Clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. They do
not award Victory Points when destroyed, and Wounds suffered by Spore Mines
in close combat (including those caused by a Floating Death detonation) are not
counted when determining assault results.

The rule was written before there were things like tactical objectives in the game. But by RAW they would count towards tactical objectives even when not giving up kill points. They can also help you get Maelstrom points by killing stuff.

 N.I.B. wrote:

Backlash wrote:
So how would this interact with maelstrom rules. Destroy x number of units to achieve x number of victory points? Overwhelming firepower for example.

Living Bomb: Spore Mine Clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. They do
not award Victory Points when destroyed, and Wounds suffered by Spore Mines
in close combat (including those caused by a Floating Death detonation) are not
counted when determining assault results.

The rule was written before there were things like tactical objectives in the game. But by RAW they would count towards tactical objectives even when not giving up kill points. They can also help you get Maelstrom points by killing stuff.

Nope Maelstrom still awards VPs which the living bomb rule explicitly tells you Spores don't give up.

It's really clear what RAI are. Spore mines are not a unit in anything but the rules related to moving them around the board, keeping them in coherency, and attacking.

Don't treat them as a unit when they die. Don't treat them as a unit when they kill. Don't treat them as a unit at all. They just follow unit rules in terms of actual mechanics so that you can move the damn things around.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

Backlash wrote:
So how would this interact with maelstrom rules. Destroy x number of units to achieve x number of victory points? Overwhelming firepower for example.

Living Bomb: Spore Mine Clusters are non-scoring, non-denial units. They do
not award Victory Points when destroyed, and Wounds suffered by Spore Mines
in close combat (including those caused by a Floating Death detonation) are not
counted when determining assault results.

The rule was written before there were things like tactical objectives in the game. But by RAW they would count towards tactical objectives even when not giving up kill points. They can also help you get Maelstrom points by killing stuff.

Nope Maelstrom still awards VPs which the living bomb rule explicitly tells you Spores don't give up.

Right your are, I stand corrected.
AFAIK the only thing killing Living Bombs count for, is counting as units killed for things like the new Khorne building up blood points, or whatever they're called.