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Surrounded my buddies Land Raiders with twelve kanz the other day. Absolutely no space to move, is he absolutely stuck?

I moved a couple of PK toting orkz up between my kanz and proceeded to assault his land raiders. I get to assault him in his assault phase if he hasn't moved because of my kanz right?

Edit, unrelated, do I need LOS to pick a point to fire at for beam style witch fire powers?

He could just Ram you.

 Harial89 wrote:
He could just Ram you.

His only reason for not doing this was because Kanz have 2 HP and the Multi melta and assault cannon firing full ballistic seemed better.

that's his choice then, yea farily stuck.

If he doesnt move away from your PK toting guys, then yea you get to attack in his assault phase too.

 Rismonite wrote:

Edit, unrelated, do I need LOS to pick a point to fire at for beam style witch fire powers?

Technically, yes... But that makes them practically unusable, so most players assume that you don't.

Follow up question; Can he pivot? And what happens then?

He has to keep his model an inch away from yours, so he couldn't pivot if doing so would do that.

As for the Beam power, you technically only need LOS to the beginning part of the beam, so you couldn't NOT have it.

 Rismonite wrote:
Follow up question; Can he pivot? And what happens then?

CR pg93 "Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock and is executed the same way. Any vehicle that can Tank Shock can also Ram."

CR pg92 "To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and, after pre-measuring, declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximum speed. The Vehicle must move at least Combat Speed. Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock."

He can't ram you by pivoting, and there is no rule that lets him move through your tanks, so he can't pivot. And if he rams your tank, and doesn't explode it (whether it is wrecked or not) his movement stops and he is still in the middle. If he does wreck your tank on the Ram, on his following turn he may go over it as dangerous terrain.

You need to charge him though, if you want to hit him in CC

I.e. Charge and surround Turn 3, then you can hit him during his turn 3, provided he doesn't successfully explode all the kanz in his way while ramming.

 Rismonite wrote:
Follow up question; Can he pivot? And what happens then?

Yes, he can.

Rulebook wrote:...If the vehicle pivots on the spot (to shoot at its attackers for example),
move these models out of the way as you shift the vehicle and then place them back into
base contact with the vehicle – or as close as possible if there is no room.

From 'Successive Turns' in the 'Assaulting a Vehicle' section.

 insaniak wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Follow up question; Can he pivot? And what happens then?

Yes, he can.

Rulebook wrote:...If the vehicle pivots on the spot (to shoot at its attackers for example),
move these models out of the way as you shift the vehicle and then place them back into
base contact with the vehicle – or as close as possible if there is no room.

From 'Successive Turns' in the 'Assaulting a Vehicle' section.

I missed that rule. What page is it on?
Edit: I found it. Page 78.

When I get off work I'll be in my rule book looking again. I remember reading that section and thinking my nobz (who did indeed assault) would have to move. My kanz had not assaulted however, and this is my dilemma.

Is like to figure a fair way to play it because he and I are playing again in a bit. I'm sure we'll be in the same place again.

Let's just hope we don't get the relic again, that's how this whole surrounding mess got started.

Edit words

Pg 18. Models in the way- from this paragraph I get that the Land Raider can't pivot through my Killa Kanz. (Remember they haven't assalted him.)

Tank Shock rules give him permission to pivot through my models if he's going to tank shock, which becomes a ram after he travels an inch into my Kanz.

The nobz standing in base to base have to move out of the way due to the ongoing assault rules.

I assume any kanz he pivots on top of would be placed 1 inch away from the Raider after the ramming move would be resolved.

So he is stuck unless he wants to ram, and can't get out unless the ramming move destroys any Killa Kan in the way. And then would have to fire snap shots after.

Does this sound correct?

I really like the idea of trying to surround the Raiders where he can't move while Nobz work on the Raider. Seems fun.

 Rismonite wrote:
Pg 18. Models in the way- from this paragraph I get that the Land Raider can't pivot through my Killa Kanz. (Remember they haven't assalted him.)

Tank Shock rules give him permission to pivot through my models if he's going to tank shock, which becomes a ram after he travels an inch into my Kanz.

The nobz standing in base to base have to move out of the way due to the ongoing assault rules.

I assume any kanz he pivots on top of would be placed 1 inch away from the Raider after the ramming move would be resolved.

So he is stuck unless he wants to ram, and can't get out unless the ramming move destroys any Killa Kan in the way. And then would have to fire snap shots after.

Does this sound correct?

I really like the idea of trying to surround the Raiders where he can't move while Nobz work on the Raider. Seems fun.

As per the ramming rules, his movement stops when he rams your vehicle if the result of the impact is anything other than your vehicle exploding. Even if he wrecks it, he has to move over it as dangerous terrain the following turn.

I know this might be slightly off topic, but im curious...How are you able to assault the LR during his assault phase? I thought you cannot be locked in CC with a vehicle?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
I know this might be slightly off topic, but im curious...How are you able to assault the LR during his assault phase? I thought you cannot be locked in CC with a vehicle?

If the vehicle didn't move and you are still in base contact you can still make attacks against the vehicle

 Rismonite wrote:
Pg 18. Models in the way- from this paragraph I get that the Land Raider can't pivot through my Killa Kanz. (Remember they haven't assalted him.)

I already quoted the rule that gives vehicles specific permission to pivot in this situation.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
I know this might be slightly off topic, but im curious...How are you able to assault the LR during his assault phase? I thought you cannot be locked in CC with a vehicle?

You're given permission in the vehicle assault rules to attack it in successive assault phases if you're still in base contact.

 insaniak wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Pg 18. Models in the way- from this paragraph I get that the Land Raider can't pivot through my Killa Kanz. (Remember they haven't assalted him.)

I already quoted the rule that gives vehicles specific permission to pivot in this situation.

I am confused here. I understand that the two nobz that assaulted the land Raider would have to move per the 'successive turns' section of the rules in pg78. My issue, is that my kanz are standing an inch away from the land Raider on all sides and have not assaulted the land raider. The wording in the section you are quoting seems to apply only to the nobz that have assaulted the land raider, but not the kanz.

 CrownAxe wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
I know this might be slightly off topic, but im curious...How are you able to assault the LR during his assault phase? I thought you cannot be locked in CC with a vehicle?

If the vehicle didn't move and you are still in base contact you can still make attacks against the vehicle

Ok this is something new too me that I havent done in our group. lol Do you always count as charging? In my group thats how we play it...But I believe that is because we thought that is how the rules work.

No, you didn't charge. You're just simply able to make attacks.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
I know this might be slightly off topic, but im curious...How are you able to assault the LR during his assault phase? I thought you cannot be locked in CC with a vehicle?

If the vehicle didn't move and you are still in base contact you can still make attacks against the vehicle

Ok this is something new too me that I havent done in our group. lol Do you always count as charging? In my group thats how we play it...But I believe that is because we thought that is how the rules work.

On their turn, you use the Successive Turns rule.
On your turn it doesn't really matter, in general it's better to back off one inch and then charge again, unless your unit is less efficient on the charge.

Successive Turns

If a vehicle that has been assaulted (and survived) does not move in its successive Movement phase, enemy models will still be in base contact with it during its Shooting and Assault phase. Enemy models that are in base contact with a vehicle (not including Walkers or Chariots) are not locked in combat and can therefore be shot during the Shooting phase. If the vehicle pivots on the spot (to shoot at its attackers for example), move these models out of the way as you shift the vehicle and then place them back into base contact with the vehicle – or as close as possible if there is no room.

Units that still have models in base contact with a vehicle during its Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat (including all models that would count as engaged in a normal assault).