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Alright, so once or twice a year, I like to build a miniature of a close friend's RP character as a Space Marine, since in our little fanfiction roleplays he's the leader of a tiny group of redeemed Chaos Marines. I use the vanilla Space Marine Codex though, since his character's planet is allied loosely with the Imperium (and also pretty much all of my Space Marine army is made of vanilla models so it helps with WYSIWYG).

My previous miniatures have all focused on the model first before the rules, and have typically resulted in a very wussy character on the tabletop. My most recent attempt tried to reverse that and make him powerful in melee combat, so I gave him a thunder hammer and a representation of the Primarch's Wrath, along with giving him Armor Indominatus (or whatever it's called) so he could use his Salvo weapon effectively while moving towards melee. Unfortunately, this proved to be extremely expensive in points, and not very effective in combat. So I've been using him as a Librarian with a Force Maul and Stormbolter instead. The Librarian status also helps because his RP character has some magical abilities (and WH40k psyker powers are basically magic by another name).

So this time, I'm looking for advice on how to build a cheap-ish, but effective Space Marine HQ, before building the model itself. I am absolutely terrible at designing effective units and loadouts, so I need help with this.

Some possibly helpful information:

-This model will be my army's Warlord
-I play low points games of around 750-1000 points pretty much exclusively, so points cost is an issue.
-I will be using the Salamanders Chapter Tactics, as it fits the custom fluff of my army the closest.
-I don't mind using the rules for a Librarian, Captain, Chapter Master, or Master of the Forge, as each of them represents different aspects of the character. (It doesn't have to have the one model represent all four types, but those are all options I'm open to. Excluded Chaplain since it doesn't really fit thematically)
-I primarily face Orks at the moment, though the model may end up having to face Sisters of Battle and/or Imperial Guard at times. Facing MEQ is pretty much impossible. (I only play against my mom and at home)
-A sword of some sort is preferable as a melee weapon, but not mandatory. (He likes swords, but is willing to use other stuff if it's noticeably more effective. However, he does think that lightning claws are as spiffy as swords, if that matters)
-Can't go without ranged attacks entirely. Whether they come from a gun or psyker powers isn't an issue.
-A bike or a jump pack are both viable options from a fluff perspective, as is Terminator armor or just plain power armor and on foot.
-Not looking for Captain Smashfether.
-Does not have to be super-killy, I just don't want to build a model and spend 20 hours on it only to find out it's terrible in the game.

Help?

Well if it can't be a smashammer or a tigurius, then there isn't much one can do. Maybe cheap biker captin to unlock grav bikes.

Makumba wrote:
Well if it can't be a smashammer or a tigurius, then there isn't much one can do. Maybe cheap biker captin to unlock grav bikes.

:: nods ::

I tend to go for more of a foot list most of the time. My opponent tends to do the same.

Oh, and I forgot. I do intend to pair him with 2-3 other character models (different people's characters) that are all on foot. 2 of them I'm going to use as Ministorum Priestesses, the 3rd is a big, big guy in power armor with an oversized bolter (though I have toyed with the idea of getting the Inquisition Codex and fielding them as Acolytes instead, and using the leader model as an Inquisitor of some sort, which would be somewhat better as it's difficult to justify having S4/T4 on a guy who's really no tougher or stronger than a human). Hm, maybe jump pack or bike won't work after all.

If you know for a fact you'll be fighting Orks/Guard/Sisters (and don't mind 'tailoring'), then go a Captain with Artificer Armour, Power Maul and Bolt Pistol. That'll give you a 2+/4++ save with 4 attacks at S6, I5. Use your Salamander CT to Mastercraft your Power Maul. Comes out to 125pts. Add a Jump Pack or Bike to flavour, and to help him get into CC.

AP4 means you'll ignore almost all Ork/Guard armour saves, and while Sisters still get their armour saves you'll be S6 vs T3 so you can Instant Death a Canonness or St Celestine. Meganobz or Warbosses in Mega Armour will give you problems, so try to avoid them in melee. Shoot them to death with Plasma if you can.

Makumba wrote:
Well if it can't be a smashammer or a tigurius, then there isn't much one can do. Maybe cheap biker captin to unlock grav bikes.

Pretty much. Marine HQs suck unless they're unlocking FOC swaps or leading a death star. It seems like the problem here is your high expectations for a model that is going to be underwhelming no matter what you do with it. Just adjust your expectations appropriately and give your HQ whatever weapon upgrades you feel are the best fit for the fluff.

 GoonBandito wrote:
If you know for a fact you'll be fighting Orks/Guard/Sisters (and don't mind 'tailoring'), then go a Captain with Artificer Armour, Power Maul and Bolt Pistol. That'll give you a 2+/4++ save with 4 attacks at S6, I5. Use your Salamander CT to Mastercraft your Power Maul. Comes out to 125pts. Add a Jump Pack or Bike to flavour, and to help him get into CC.

AP4 means you'll ignore almost all Ork/Guard armour saves, and while Sisters still get their armour saves you'll be S6 vs T3 so you can Instant Death a Canonness or St Celestine. Meganobz or Warbosses in Mega Armour will give you problems, so try to avoid them in melee. Shoot them to death with Plasma if you can.

:: nodnod :: Both of us tailor our lists a little (she brings fewer Lootas when I don't take any vehicles, for example), so that's not a huge problem for me.

There's a bit of a fluff issue with bringing plasma weapons (they don't like weapons that can kill the user) but when the situation's dire enough they'll find their way into a list. As an alternative I can bring an Exorcist - Insta-gib for Meganobz and wounds a Mega-Armored Warboss on a 2+ with no armor saves allowed, and can do it from the other side of the table to boot. But it's good to know to avoid them, as they do show up from time to time.

Also, thanks for the explanation of why to bring the wargear you suggested, it helps me a lot. : D

As for the Jump Pack/Bike, would it be better to pair him with an Assault Squad, Scout Bikes, or on foot with a Battle Conclave with an Ecclesiarchy Priestess also attached? I think that last one's a possibility anyways.

As for getting him into CC, the table I play on is small enough that that's going to happen very quickly regardless. I think it's only like 3 feet on each side, because there's nowhere to set up my gaming table at the moment so we're using the dining room table.

Honestly, points cost being what it is, I'd run the following:

Captain
Artificer Armor//Terminator Armor
Relic Blade
Combi-Flamer or Melta.

Gives him good shooting/cc prowess.

Alternatively, you can do this:

Librarian (Mastery Level:1 or 2, depending on your points & Preference)
Terminator Armor
Storm Shield
Force Weapon (Sword)

Roll Biomancy for powers and take the primaris for his shooting attack since you get the primaris + whatever you roll if you take all powers from the same discipline

Both characters are around 130ish points if my memory serves, so not super expensive. I hope those suggestions help and best of luck.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Honestly, points cost being what it is, I'd run the following:

Captain
Artificer Armor//Terminator Armor
Relic Blade
Combi-Flamer or Melta.

Gives him good shooting/cc prowess.

Alternatively, you can do this:

Librarian (Mastery Level:1 or 2, depending on your points & Preference)
Terminator Armor
Storm Shield
Force Weapon (Sword)

Roll Biomancy for powers and take the primaris for his shooting attack since you get the primaris + whatever you roll if you take all powers from the same discipline

Both characters are around 130ish points if my memory serves, so not super expensive. I hope those suggestions help and best of luck.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

:: nods :: I was looking at the Relic Blade. It's got the strength of a Power Maul but it cuts through Sororitas armor too.

The Captain you suggested is actually 145 points with Artificer Armor, and Terminator-Captains can't take Relic Blades.

If I go with a Librarian though, I'd probably take the Pyromancy discipline for fluff reasons.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Honestly, points cost being what it is, I'd run the following:

Captain
Artificer Armor//Terminator Armor
Relic Blade
Combi-Flamer or Melta.

Gives him good shooting/cc prowess.

Alternatively, you can do this:

Librarian (Mastery Level:1 or 2, depending on your points & Preference)
Terminator Armor
Storm Shield
Force Weapon (Sword)

Roll Biomancy for powers and take the primaris for his shooting attack since you get the primaris + whatever you roll if you take all powers from the same discipline

Both characters are around 130ish points if my memory serves, so not super expensive. I hope those suggestions help and best of luck.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Alternatively you could sub the relic blade for teeth of terra. Its always nice to have a chainsword.

If you are going for a low cost option, librarians are good without any upgrades. If you want to boost them, upping the mastery level is a good use of points. Bolt pistol/force weapon works fine for gear, if you want to shoot something, you can use psychic powers.

Captains need more get to work. I wouldn’t field one without artificer armor. If you want shooting, you probably want a combi bolter. What flavor depends a lot on what squad he is with. I’d personally not bother with anything more shooty then a bolt pistol, but that’s not what you asked for. Flamer or melta would be in character for a Salamander.

If you are locked into taking the bolter, your CC weapon should be a specialist or two handed one, as you aren’t getting the extra CC attack anyway. Lightning claw is your budget option, relic blade, power fist or thunder hammer can also work, but start getting pricy. And you are asking for cheap.

Jump pack or bike are both good buys, but be sure you have a squad to hang with.

Since you're using Salamander's CT's, I would take a look at using one of the forgeworld special characters as a count-as for your warlord:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2014/3/badabupdate-v2-28021242.pdf

Otherwise, if you want to use a generic unit:
- A bike or jump pack will make him significantly more viable
- If you don't want to use a bike, then he needs a transport (hitching a ride on a land raider is most preferable).
- You want artificer armor if you use a captain. Terminator armor can help for chaplains or libbys if they're going to be on foot.
- If you want to use a sword, look into a Relic Blade, or the Burning Blade. For a chainsword, the Teeth of Terra.
- Marine HQ's are not very shooty. A combi-plasma/melta or the Primarch's Wrath would be your best choice if you really want ranged weapons. A Bike Librarian with Psychic Shriek would be better. A MotF can also be fairly shooty, especially if you go the Bike+Conversion Beamer route.

Since you're playing at relatively low point levels, I wouldn't spend too much on your warlord. Maybe just put a Librarian with no upgrades on the field, and hang him back and cast Telepathy powers.

 Nevelon wrote:
If you are going for a low cost option, librarians are good without any upgrades. If you want to boost them, upping the mastery level is a good use of points. Bolt pistol/force weapon works fine for gear, if you want to shoot something, you can use psychic powers.

Captains need more get to work. I wouldn’t field one without artificer armor. If you want shooting, you probably want a combi bolter. What flavor depends a lot on what squad he is with. I’d personally not bother with anything more shooty then a bolt pistol, but that’s not what you asked for. Flamer or melta would be in character for a Salamander.

If you are locked into taking the bolter, your CC weapon should be a specialist or two handed one, as you aren’t getting the extra CC attack anyway. Lightning claw is your budget option, relic blade, power fist or thunder hammer can also work, but start getting pricy. And you are asking for cheap.

Jump pack or bike are both good buys, but be sure you have a squad to hang with.

:: nods :: I do like the cheap cost of the Librarian, and also throwing around some sci-fi magic would be nifty, since I haven't done that in 7th yet.

As for the Captain, I'll have to confer with him, but a pistol might be okay for ranged attacks. The fluff is that he prefers to soften up targets at range while closing in (or while they're closing in on him), then finish them off in melee, but a lot of the artwork of his character that I've seen has him using a pistol and one-handed sword. Of course, Space Marine Captains don't have many options when it comes to softening up targets at range, so probably he'd have his unit do most of the shooting, since he's made it clear to me in the past that yes, he's willing to sacrifice his aesthetic preferences if it's more effective. But he's really not a fan of having zero ranged attacks, so that part was basically just about stuff like double lightning claws or lightning claw/thunder hammer or power axe/sword combinations.

I guess I could make two minis. One with a power maul and bolt pistol that can be a Librarian or cheap melee Captain, and one with a relic blade and stormbolter for when he faces my Sororitas.

Have you ever worked with magnets? It’s not hard to do arm swaps.

I stay away from sotrmbolters. As much as I love the look and fluff, the advantage they have over a normal bolter don’t justify the cost.

 Nevelon wrote:
Have you ever worked with magnets? It’s not hard to do arm swaps.

I stay away from sotrmbolters. As much as I love the look and fluff, the advantage they have over a normal bolter don’t justify the cost.

I have not, actually. It'd probably be a good idea though. so I may look into it.

For Salamanders, one fun loadout my friend did was the Burning Blade with a Grav Pistol, Digital Weapons and Master Crafting the Pistol. Then you just bring Vulkan and then go nuts?
Granted you're at 1000 point level so you might feel safer bringing more Marines.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
For Salamanders, one fun loadout my friend did was the Burning Blade with a Grav Pistol, Digital Weapons and Master Crafting the Pistol. Then you just bring Vulkan and then go nuts?
Granted you're at 1000 point level so you might feel safer bringing more Marines.

Yeah, in my last game I kinda got wiped off the table by turn 4. I rolled a lot of 1s and 2s for armor saves though. Like when I lost 7 Battle Sisters to a single Grotzooka that got 12 hits with one volley (both blasts didn't scatter). Having more bodies on the table would definitely help. I'm unsure whether to go with 5 or 10-person squads though. 10-person squads eat up the points very quickly, though I guess internally I know that it's actually cheaper since you often save like 10 points having 10 models in one squad compared to 5 models in each of two squads.

It's one of the things I don't like about small points games - having every decision on what to bring being so crucial. But I like the speed at which the game plays, more than I dislike the hard choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I will magnetize the model's arms. Maybe backpack too so I can swap it out for a jump pack if I decide I want to spend a bit more on him (say if my mom and I decide we want to run higher points games in the future). There's a really good reason to magnetize it beyond just the convenience of only painting one model plus extra arms - the head I use for his character comes from an army I don't play, and there's only 2 of them in each 45 dollar kit, plus the last time I checked eBay for bitz I couldn't find anyone selling those particular heads. I'd say I should magnetize the torso too so I can stick him on a Bike if the need arises, but that might be a bit too much magnetization. Plus bitz sellers sell the heads in lots of 2, so I could save the second for a bike model.