Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

Angrygrot wrote:
Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

Yes they are 2 different things. No that doesn't make a jot of difference to this situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stormcraft wrote:
I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

Sorry but RaI is clearly that a BT arriving via Blood Tithe has the same restrictions as one that arrives via deepstrike reserve. Why? Because they have not told us to treat it any differently at all. A good basis for RaI is maintain the status quo unless instructed otherwise. There is nothing in Blood Tithe that even hints at it being treated differently.

GW wouldn't release a model with poor rules? Well an Insensate BT is still very strong and the summoned ones are free so the fact they come with downsides is hardly surprising. However a quick History lesson for you:

Harlequin Codex just got released nothing in there is really competitive.

Go back BAs got new plastic assault terminators with nothing making them any good with a poor banner option. They also got new tac marines, the heavy flamer helped but tac marines are still dump.

Orks got the Gorkanaught/Morkanaught neither are competitive.

Guard got a new Hydra that is worse than the old one.

Tyranids: toxicrene is just about useable the Maleceptor is completely terrible. It's power costs tripple the Warp Charge of Psychic Shriek for a power that is worse than Psychic Shriek in every way. Haruspex is just awful. Then the big new Hiveguard/Tyrantguard kit. So they change the Tyrant so the better build of Dakkaflyrant got cheaper and improved Bs so the already best choice that meant no Tyrantguard got better making it a completely no brainer when they took away the 2+ save to mean there was absolutely no reason to take a walking Flyrant with guard. What about the other half well Hiveguard were the best shooty Elite slot. So they make venonthropes and Zoanthropes better (the later also useful for WC generation and synapse), they make Hiveguard lower Bs and increase their points by 5, then they given them a new gun that is worse than their old gun and yet more points. They did everything they could rulewise to make that new kit worthless.

So yes GW frequently release new models with poor rules. The new BT kit isn't even one of those cases as one version will see a lot of play.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Angrygrot wrote:
Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

Yes they are 2 different things. No that doesn't make a jot of difference to this situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stormcraft wrote:
I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

Sorry but RaI is clearly that a BT arriving via Blood Tithe has the same restrictions as one that arrives via deepstrike reserve. Why? Because they have not told us to treat it any differently at all. A good basis for RaI is maintain the status quo unless instructed otherwise. There is nothing in Blood Tithe that even hints at it being treated differently.

GW wouldn't release a model with poor rules? Well an Insensate BT is still very strong and the summoned ones are free so the fact they come with downsides is hardly surprising. However a quick History lesson for you:

Harlequin Codex just got released nothing in there is really competitive.

Go back BAs got new plastic assault terminators with nothing making them any good with a poor banner option. They also got new tac marines, the heavy flamer helped but tac marines are still dump.

Orks got the Gorkanaught/Morkanaught neither are competitive.

Guard got a new Hydra that is worse than the old one.

Tyranids: toxicrene is just about useable the Maleceptor is completely terrible. It's power costs tripple the Warp Charge of Psychic Shriek for a power that is worse than Psychic Shriek in every way. Haruspex is just awful. Then the big new Hiveguard/Tyrantguard kit. So they change the Tyrant so the better build of Dakkaflyrant got cheaper and improved Bs so the already best choice that meant no Tyrantguard got better making it a completely no brainer when they took away the 2+ save to mean there was absolutely no reason to take a walking Flyrant with guard. What about the other half well Hiveguard were the best shooty Elite slot. So they make venonthropes and Zoanthropes better (the later also useful for WC generation and synapse), they make Hiveguard lower Bs and increase their points by 5, then they given them a new gun that is worse than their old gun and yet more points. They did everything they could rulewise to make that new kit worthless.

So yes GW frequently release new models with poor rules. The new BT kit isn't even one of those cases as one version will see a lot of play.

My apologies up front but you are all over the place and are not making one lick of sense

How in one hand can you say that the datacard that was presented as evidence for a seperate game mechanic is dismissable as proof and then turn around saying that no proof exists?
May want to take a good long look in the mirror when telling people to cite their speech as opinion, because right now... we have two very reliable pieces of evidence that the bloodthirster should be able to charge the turn after it arrives from DS in the White Dwarf Battle report and now in datacards, making your argument less valid.

Also, who are to say that certain models rules are garbage when they are routinely used? The new harlequin stuff is highly compettitive and borderline bananas with some of the rules. (A solitaire killing 2 daemon princes on average dice rolls is an example).
BA Marines are still marines and do more work for their points than many other basic infantry do
the toxicrene is a nightmare to terminator armies, including grey knights (argued to still be one of the best codices on the market)
the goranaut is routinely used in my META due to how tough to crack it can be.

just because you have bad luck with dice doesnt mean certain models are bad.

Angrygrot wrote:
Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

As FlingitNow has said, i do not see this as support for being able to choose flight modes in the Movement phase.

If anything, it support my point of view that a Unit summoned via the blood tithe table does not, actually, come from Deep Strike Reserves.

The data card is making it seem like there is a difference in arriving by Deep Strike from Deep Strike Reserves and arriving by Deep Strike via the blood tithe table (so not coming from Reserves).
That is all the difference it makes.
Both arriving by Deep Strike from Deep Strike Reserves and arriving by Deep Strike via the blood tithe table happen at the same time: At the start of the Turn. As can be seen in the Reserves Rules.

Angrygrot wrote:Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

No one is really saying the BTBT comes from Reserves - please stop with the straw man argument.
People have asserted that the BTBT can change modes because it's a special snowflake that arrives at a different time. The Reserves discussion is to prove otherwise.

stormcraft wrote:I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

No, the RAI isn't "very clear". It's literally wishful thinking. It's not delusional to treat a FMC the same as literally every other FMC in the game.

So yeah just pretend the data card has nothing to do with resolving this discussion .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So yeah just pretend the data card has nothing to do with resolving this discussion .

It does, but just not in the way proposed. It's not being ignored, i addressed why they would make a difference (on the card), and so has Rigeld.

It just does not change how the Blood Tithe summons differ from standard FMC, regarding time of arrival. It addresses method, yes, but not timing....

How in one hand can you say that the datacard that was presented as evidence for a seperate game mechanic is dismissable as proof and then turn around saying that no proof exists? 
May want to take a good long look in the mirror when telling people to cite their speech as opinion, because right now... we have two very reliable pieces of evidence that the bloodthirster should be able to charge the turn after it arrives from DS in the White Dwarf Battle report and now in datacards, making your argument less valid. 

Also, who are to say that certain models rules are garbage when they are routinely used? The new harlequin stuff is highly compettitive and borderline bananas with some of the rules. (A solitaire killing 2 daemon princes on average dice rolls is an example). 
BA Marines are still marines and do more work for their points than many other basic infantry do 
the toxicrene is a nightmare to terminator armies, including grey knights (argued to still be one of the best codices on the market) 
the goranaut is routinely used in my META due to how tough to crack it can be. 

just because you have bad luck with dice doesnt mean certain models are bad.

How is the datacard evidence that you can change flight mode? Seriously how?

White Dwarf battle reports get rules wrong all the time (for instance they had Pask on his own in one, they also shot full Bs at a FMC after grounding it in that turn) and don't give us the detail any more to accurately see what happened.

There is no evidence as yet provided that even hints that a summoned Blood Thirster can move after deepstriking (which is what the change flight mode argument requires you to be able to do).

As for my luck that is irrelevant. I'm talking about what is taken on the tournament scene and what is competitive. The Solitaire dies on average to 10 boltgun marines. If you're dumb enough to let him fight stuff like a DP that's your fault not an effective unit. His main role is area denial but in a meta with Drop Pods, Dakkaflyrants and Broadsides he should never see combat.

As for my dice I don't

rigeld2 wrote:

Angrygrot wrote:Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

No one is really saying the BTBT comes from Reserves - please stop with the straw man argument.
People have asserted that the BTBT can change modes because it's a special snowflake that arrives at a different time. The Reserves discussion is to prove otherwise.

stormcraft wrote:I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

No, the RAI isn't "very clear". It's literally wishful thinking. It's not delusional to treat a FMC the same as literally every other FMC in the game.

you mean treat it like every FMC can be brought into the game via blood tithe? Cause thats what you are saying, and you'd be wrong

The blood tithe mechanic introduces a new precendent in deep strike/deployment that involves a FMC, so again, we are not arguing the model, but the delivery system.



(@FlingitNow)
the data cards present two different methods of deepstrike deployment involving the blood tithe mechanic and deep strike reserves. These are not the same thing and should be treated as such... clearly... thats seriously how.

Again... did you ever stop to think that perhaps we as the players are playing something wrong? There are several rules that seem to make no sense to us but make every bit of sense to GW. Im not brainwashed by any means but I also refuse to think that a bunch of geeks who pride themselves on attention to detail made a mistake playing an army for which the wrote the rules for. The same goes for this instance.

Cite the rule for changing flight modes please... verbatim...

I dont care what you are talking about... its still your opinion... people lose due to bad dice rolls all the time, that is something you cant change, doesnt make a model bad, especially when you think Im dumb for running an elite CC model against another elite (tricked out) CC model. How about you use the model how you want to use it and stop bad mouthing peoples success, mmmk Pumpkin?

you dont what?

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
you mean treat it like every FMC can be brought into the game via blood tithe? Cause thats what you are saying, and you'd be wrong

No, I mean treat it like every FMC that arrives via Deep Strike.

The blood tithe mechanic introduces a new precendent in deep strike/deployment that involves a FMC, so again, we are not arguing the model, but the delivery system.

No, it doesn't introduce a new precedent. Asserting that it does is wishful thinking.

Again... did you ever stop to think that perhaps we as the players are playing something wrong? There are several rules that seem to make no sense to us but make every bit of sense to GW. Im not brainwashed by any means but I also refuse to think that a bunch of geeks who pride themselves on attention to detail made a mistake playing an army for which the wrote the rules for. The same goes for this instance.

Except for the fact that there have been numerous times they literally broke rules in White Dwarf battle reports, and that they've said - again, numerous times, that they do them for the narrative and bend/break rules if it makes the narrative better.

Cite the rule for changing flight modes please... verbatim...

It's been cited multiple times in this thread. And it's absolutely clear in the rulebook.
You change flight modes before your move. Which means you must be able to move to change flight modes.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Angrygrot wrote:Something that might add to this conversation. In the tactical objectives the objective card Murder Call makes a clear distinction between deep strike reserve and daemon summoning through the blood tithe.

This might give more evidence for thediceabide's arguement

The card grants a victory point if a daemon was summoned via deep strike -reserve- or if one was summoned via the blood tithe table. If deep strike reserve was no different from deep strike/blood tithe, wouldn't that extra bit about the blood tithe be redundant?

No one is really saying the BTBT comes from Reserves - please stop with the straw man argument.
People have asserted that the BTBT can change modes because it's a special snowflake that arrives at a different time. The Reserves discussion is to prove otherwise.

stormcraft wrote:I think it is very clear that RAI is not that your BT has to way 3 bloody tuns to charge.

RAW are pretty unclear and clearly worth a lot of discussion, and maybe RAW he really has to wait 3 turns.

But if anyone really thinks GW intended its core shiny BT in this codex to get shot for three rounds after it was summond is delusional, sorry.

Its again just crappy rule writing imho.

No, the RAI isn't "very clear". It's literally wishful thinking. It's not delusional to treat a FMC the same as literally every other FMC in the game.

you mean treat it like every FMC can be brought into the game via blood tithe? Cause thats what you are saying, and you'd be wrong

The blood tithe mechanic introduces a new precendent in deep strike/deployment that involves a FMC, so again, we are not arguing the model, but the delivery system.



(@FlingitNow)
the data cards present two different methods of deepstrike deployment involving the blood tithe mechanic and deep strike reserves. These are not the same thing and should be treated as such... clearly... thats seriously how.

Again... did you ever stop to think that perhaps we as the players are playing something wrong? There are several rules that seem to make no sense to us but make every bit of sense to GW. Im not brainwashed by any means but I also refuse to think that a bunch of geeks who pride themselves on attention to detail made a mistake playing an army for which the wrote the rules for. The same goes for this instance.

Cite the rule for changing flight modes please... verbatim...

I dont care what you are talking about... its still your opinion... people lose due to bad dice rolls all the time, that is something you cant change, doesnt make a model bad, especially when you think Im dumb for running an elite CC model against another elite (tricked out) CC model. How about you use the model how you want to use it and stop bad mouthing peoples success, mmmk Pumpkin?

you dont what?

I'm not sure i can understand an argument from this?

Blood Tithe summoning and a FMC in Reserves are obviously different.....?

They both arrive at the start of the Turn, they both arrive by Deep Strike, and they are both forbidden to move further by this rule:
"In the movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further,"

Where is there an issue with this set of rules?

You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

So you're still stuck on the incorrect perception that Reserves arrive in the movement phase, despite the evidence we've shown?
And the fact that your assertion means you get to move twice with many units?

I just want to make sure I understand your position.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

Telling someone he can't move further in the Movement phase doesn't mean he had to have moved in the Movement phase. He moved at the start of the turn and can't move further in the Movement phase.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

The thing is, i used to agree to that Version. But it was proven impossible for "normal" FMC in Reserves to arrive in the movement phase.

No one can arrive in the movement phase. That's what was proven. So either:
1) The rule means absolutely nothing, and everyone can move.
2) The rule applies to any Unit that "arrived"

The crux of the matter is the summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. This cannot be disputed - sure you can back slap each other that disagree but that's all it is. The data card shows us explicit intention and you can't get around that either.

rigeld2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

So you're still stuck on the incorrect perception that Reserves arrive in the movement phase, despite the evidence we've shown?
And the fact that your assertion means you get to move twice with many units?

I just want to make sure I understand your position.

That is the opposite of what I said. I won't talk about Reserves, as reserves are completely irrelevant to the Blood Tithe.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

So you're still stuck on the incorrect perception that Reserves arrive in the movement phase, despite the evidence we've shown?
And the fact that your assertion means you get to move twice with many units?

I just want to make sure I understand your position.

That is the opposite of what I said. I won't talk about Reserves, as reserves are completely irrelevant to the Blood Tithe.

Except they're not.
And if it's the opposite of what you said, you agree that BTBTs can't change flight modes the turn they arrive?

 BlackTalos wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You are applying a rule which specifies arriving in the movement phase to units not arriving in the movement phase, how can you not see an issue?

The thing is, i used to agree to that Version. But it was proven impossible for "normal" FMC in Reserves to arrive in the movement phase.

No one can arrive in the movement phase. That's what was proven. So either:
1) The rule means absolutely nothing, and everyone can move.
2) The rule applies to any Unit that "arrived"

The Reserves section is quite clear on who can move or not move. The rule applies to anything arriving by Deep Strike in the movement phase.
I can understand why you would interpret it differently and its a decent interpretation, but not the rule as written.

Summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. Normal deepstriking FMC arrives at the start of the movement phase .

No one can arrive in the movement phase. That's what was proven. So either:
1) The rule means absolutely nothing, and everyone can move.
2) The rule applies to any Unit that "arrived"

So interpretation1, make NO SENSE, since it can not be applied

Interpretation 2 is on the only one that can be applied, so it is the viable option.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The rule applies to anything arriving by Deep Strike in the movement phase.

It's been proven, using actual rules, that this isn't the case - units do not arrive by Deep Strike in the movement phase (in general).

At this point you're making things up.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. Normal deepstriking FMC arrives at the start of the movement phase .

I agree, but many don't. The Order of reserves remains irrelevant to the Blood Tithe however..

Perhaps a separate thread to discuss only reserves?

admittedly that would involve going around in circles....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The rule applies to anything arriving by Deep Strike in the movement phase.

It's been proven, using actual rules, that this isn't the case - units do not arrive by Deep Strike in the movement phase (in general).

At this point you're making things up.

Units arrive by deep strike in the movement phase all the time.
At this point, you are rewriting rules to read as you think they work.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. Normal deepstriking FMC arrives at the start of the movement phase .

I agree, but many don't. The Order of reserves remains irrelevant to the Blood Tithe however..

No, it isn't. You can keep pretending it is, but it's not.
The crux of your argument - the entire reason you want to pretend the BTBT is special, is because you say he's the only unit that arrives in the Start of Turn.

That's been conclusively proven wrong. As such, you've shifted to "Reserves are irrelevant and can't be used to prove anything, the BTBT is just special because he is."

You've utterly failed to provide rules support for your assertions that hasn't been disproven.

You decide to use Blood Tithe at the beggining of the phase.
The models arrival uses the Deep Strike Rules.

I've quoted the actual rules and pointed this out earlier.

NOTHING in the rules says the models Deep strike any differently than other models that deep strike. If they don't deep strike any differently than they are subject to the same limitations as everyone else who Deep Strikes.

rigeld2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. Normal deepstriking FMC arrives at the start of the movement phase .

I agree, but many don't. The Order of reserves remains irrelevant to the Blood Tithe however..

No, it isn't. You can keep pretending it is, but it's not.
The crux of your argument - the entire reason you want to pretend the BTBT is special, is because you say he's the only unit that arrives in the Start of Turn.

That's been conclusively proven wrong. As such, you've shifted to "Reserves are irrelevant and can't be used to prove anything, the BTBT is just special because he is."

You've utterly failed to provide rules support for your assertions that hasn't been disproven.

Now your putting words in my mouth. And I remember why I quit this thread.

If people want to read "movement phase during which they arrive" as "Whenever I want to apply the restriction" then go ahead, but don't pretend its RAW.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Units arrive by deep strike in the movement phase all the time.
At this point, you are rewriting rules to read as you think they work.

Except they don't. You're the one who's rewriting rules to read how you think they work. Reserves arrive before the Movement phase.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The Reserves section is quite clear on who can move or not move. The rule applies to anything arriving by Deep Strike in the movement phase.
I can understand why you would interpret it differently and its a decent interpretation, but not the rule as written.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Units arrive by deep strike in the movement phase all the time.
At this point, you are rewriting rules to read as you think they work.

That is indeed that actual problem here.

Units arriving by Deep Strike from Deep Strike Reserves (all the "normal" Deep Strike) arrive at the start of the Turn, possibly even before you Spend Blood Tithe points (because "start of Turn" things can be played in the order you want).

No one Deep Strikes during the movement phase (from Reserves).

Captyn_Bob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Summoned BT arrives prior to the start of the movement phase. Normal deepstriking FMC arrives at the start of the movement phase .

I agree, but many don't. The Order of reserves remains irrelevant to the Blood Tithe however..

No, it isn't. You can keep pretending it is, but it's not.
The crux of your argument - the entire reason you want to pretend the BTBT is special, is because you say he's the only unit that arrives in the Start of Turn.

That's been conclusively proven wrong. As such, you've shifted to "Reserves are irrelevant and can't be used to prove anything, the BTBT is just special because he is."

You've utterly failed to provide rules support for your assertions that hasn't been disproven.

Now your putting words in my mouth. And I remember why I quit this thread.

If people want to read "movement phase during which they arrive" as "Whenever I want to apply the restriction" then go ahead, but don't pretend its RAW.

Please, what words have I put in your mouth?
I'm asking you to correct me. And that's not how I'm reading it but thanks for the passive-aggressive insult.