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My local GW got a message from on high with a long list of fantasy products to pull pack and return.

That's not necessarily a big deal.

What was the list?

I have not seen the whole list but the first stuff was from the o&g range, definitely the battalion box and boyz, goblins it might have been night goblins or just basic. Not sure to be honest not a greenskin fan so not sure what was in the range to start with.

If the Battalion box and Boyz are getting recalled, it might be for an upcoming O&G book.

Battalion boxes have been getting pulled when a Fantasy/40k book gets redone.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If the Battalion box and Boyz are getting recalled, it might be for an upcoming O&G book.

Battalion boxes have been getting pulled when a Fantasy/40k book gets redone.

Are they getting a new army book, even though the planet blew up? The timing on that seems a little... poorly thought out.

squidhills wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If the Battalion box and Boyz are getting recalled, it might be for an upcoming O&G book.

Battalion boxes have been getting pulled when a Fantasy/40k book gets redone.

Are they getting a new army book, even though the planet blew up? The timing on that seems a little... poorly thought out.

The likelihood of 9th edition continuing from The End Times is...iffy.

Does the o&g range have enough in it to fill 2 a4 sheets?
If not then I think we can rule out an army book.
Plus it was my understanding was that new stuff with army books brought new stuff in rather than replacing plastic kits.

They got rid of tons of product, mostly from the hobbit that is all moving to direct only, the company is trying to funnel as many sales as it can through the website, it really doesn't care about the stores.

It looks to me they are closing the ranges down for 9th.

I suspect GW is going to drop its customer base regarding fantasy and start afresh.
if so it is not only a dick move towards existing customers but also evidence that cant run things properly.

Other companies can make money selling fantasy products, if GW cannot it is because of how the company is operated not because of the product range.

^Check out the KoW Rumor thread. Mantic has stated that they will make plenty of official lists (without fluff) to support "numerous other historical and fantasy groups" and Squig has already mentioned that anything dropped will find a home in KoW. KoW may not be heavily loved by die-hard WHFB players, but it has been continuously picking up steam, and is working to appeal towards everyone. Buy your GW models and know that there is a game waiting for them. It just might not be a current GW team writing the rules.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
It just might not be a current GW team writing the rules.

That might be a selling point, considering the opinion some folks have of GW's rules...

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Looking at the used market this could just be a wash. Some will claim "They're OOP and thus worth more" while others will state "They might be completely invalid in 9th, they're worth less because of the risk"

Personally I stand in the latter, which means I likely won't be trying to sell my excess Skaven anytime soon.

 Ravenous D wrote:
They got rid of tons of product, mostly from the hobbit that is all moving to direct only, the company is trying to funnel as many sales as it can through the website, it really doesn't care about the stores.

^^ this.

Their strategy for some time now has been to push everything that isn't high-volume product to web-only. If there's a thread of continuity anywhere within this current batch of rumours (which I strongly suspect is at least 40% misinterpretation and 50% made-up bs), it's that 9th-edition will bring a strategy overhaul meant to streamline the process for pushing high-volume products in retail locations and high-margin web sales for everything else.


I'm guessing that means grouping factions together such that releases can appeal to several sets of customers at once (e.g. blight kings), which will sit on shelves while they're hot commodities then be recalled and relegated to web-only once a new book comes out and they're no longer the "new shiny."


The notion that fantasy is just being dropped altogether is pretty ludicrous, though.

squidhills wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
It just might not be a current GW team writing the rules.

That might be a selling point, considering the opinion some folks have of GW's rules...

Most of the Mantic staff is Ex-GW. Most of their rules writers are Ex-GW. They have a tournament ruling that states they don't care whose models you use. And their rules are inexpensive/free digital. So the worst you can waste is a couple hours of time determining if you like it or hate it. While keeping pretty fantasy armies on the table!!

"They have a tournament ruling that states they don't care whose models you use." ...yet.

Keep in mind they are a new company. Their #1 goal right now is to GROW and an easy way to get more people playing your game is to say "Oh yeah, you can use your models from this other game, it's cool" because now I just need to read a new rule book, which is also free. There is a $0 investment to play KoW if you have a fantasy army, you only spend time. This is great for growing a player base, bad for profits.

Now when / if KoW becomes the new big time fantasy game I would expect this to change. It's jut that right now they're trying to steal players from WHFB and a great way to do so is to make the game "free".

Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

 adamsouza wrote:
Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

Yes. I am not arguing that point. What I am saying is their stance of "use any companies models you want" will likely go away if/when they become top dog.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

Yes. I am not arguing that point. What I am saying is their stance of "use any companies models you want" will likely go away if/when they become top dog.

We will have to agree to disagree.

If nothing else I think they will avoid a Mantic Model only policy, just to prove to themselves that they are better than GW.

Honestly, most of them being former GW employees, I think it brings a warm fuzzy feeling to each of them every time they see someone fielding GW models but using their rules.

lol why not clear them out instead of shipping them back?

 LordRahl wrote:
lol why not clear them out instead of shipping them back?

So GW can gather a bit of good will with the retailers, instead of angering them stranding them with stock for armies they no longer support.

Plus, you'll be forced to buy the new plastic versions of everything when they come out, because the secondary market won't be flooded with old stock.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

Yes. I am not arguing that point. What I am saying is their stance of "use any companies models you want" will likely go away if/when they become top dog.

We will have to agree to disagree.

If nothing else I think they will avoid a Mantic Model only policy, just to prove to themselves that they are better than GW.

Honestly, most of them being former GW employees, I think it brings a warm fuzzy feeling to each of them every time they see someone fielding GW models but using their rules.

True but they are a business and warm fuzzys don't keep a business afloat. If they aren't selling enough mantic models to stay afloat / grow, it will change. At the end of the day they are a business and they need to make money.

As for why not clear them out, likely because GW will not let a store discount over 30%, that's what I've been told anyway. Plus GW will refund them for the product anyway. It clears out a lot of what has likely been sitting on shelves for years collecting dust.

 adamsouza wrote:
Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

Mantic's business model is selling alternative WHFB miniatures and hoping that people notice their free rules when they do so. I would hazard that 98% of their sales are to Vampire Counts players buying their cheaper ghouls/zombies/skeletons. If GW fails then mantic's free rules aren't going to save them.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Keep in mind they are a new company. Their #1 goal right now is to GROW and an easy way to get more people playing your game is to say "Oh yeah, you can use your models from this other game, it's cool"

I think they also need to concentrate on some more difficult ways, like making minis that someone would want to buy. The only way I'd play KoW right now is with 'models from this other game'.

(And even then I'd play other fantasy battle games instead.)

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
They got rid of tons of product, mostly from the hobbit that is all moving to direct only, the company is trying to funnel as many sales as it can through the website, it really doesn't care about the stores.

^^ this.

Their strategy for some time now has been to push everything that isn't high-volume product to web-only. If there's a thread of continuity anywhere within this current batch of rumours (which I strongly suspect is at least 40% misinterpretation and 50% made-up bs), it's that 9th-edition will bring a strategy overhaul meant to streamline the process for pushing high-volume products in retail locations and high-margin web sales for everything else.


I'm guessing that means grouping factions together such that releases can appeal to several sets of customers at once (e.g. blight kings), which will sit on shelves while they're hot commodities then be recalled and relegated to web-only once a new book comes out and they're no longer the "new shiny."


The notion that fantasy is just being dropped altogether is pretty ludicrous, though.

It also cuts what indys can order, forcing more sales through GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordRahl wrote:
lol why not clear them out instead of shipping them back?

It costs GW less to throw them away or ship them back, then put them on sale. See dreadfleet and a bunch of other things they have pitched into a dumpster that isn't behind their stores. I worked for GW for awhile and they do it often and actually tell their employees not to throw out product at the stores dumpster in case someone dumpster dives.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Every player they steal from GW with free rules is one that is likely to eventually buy some Mantic Stuff.

Mantic's business model is selling alternative WHFB miniatures and hoping that people notice their free rules when they do so. I would hazard that 98% of their sales are to Vampire Counts players buying their cheaper ghouls/zombies/skeletons. If GW fails then mantic's free rules aren't going to save them.

It's funny because it's true.

That's excatly how Mantic roped me into being a KoW player.

 Ravenous D wrote:
It costs GW less to throw them away or ship them back, then put them on sale.

{citation needed}

That just sounds like made up BS to me. I don't believe it for a second. Basically every other retailer in the world will put things on sale before actually throwing them out. I think GW just has the deluded idea that if they keep the prices high they'll sell the same number of models as if they had put them on sale, thus they make more money by destroying old models and replacing them with new models than reducing the price of the old ones... ignoring the reality that almost every other retailer in the world follows which is that if something is on sale, the customer is quite likely to buy more stuff.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
It costs GW less to throw them away or ship them back, then put them on sale.

{citation needed}

That just sounds like made up BS to me. I don't believe it for a second. Basically every other retailer in the world will put things on sale before actually throwing them out. I think GW just has the deluded idea that if they keep the prices high they'll sell the same number of models as if they had put them on sale, thus they make more money by destroying old models and replacing them with new models than reducing the price of the old ones... ignoring the reality that almost every other retailer in the world follows which is that if something is on sale, the customer is quite likely to buy more stuff.

Then don't believe me, all the dreadfleet boxes and all the dusty unsold models are sitting in a land fill regardless of what you think. That's the funny thing about the truth, it doesn't care about your feelings, it doesn't care about your opinion, it doesn't care about your beliefs. GW never has sales, and the closest thing they had were the auctions and they stopped doing that a long time ago. When a store shuts down they gut it all into the garbage. Sorry bud, you're wrong.

The GW Toronto store had all the display cases from the closed Canadian HQ and they were all stolen by the employees (and their buddies) without upper management knowing they were even there, they sell those things for $400 each. There was over 20.

Want some more truth? How about when they needed a wrecked titan for a table the regional manager walked into the back office grabbed his warhound titan and threw it across the warehouse and told the employees to pick up the pieces.

All those unsold BL books? The covers get ripped off and thrown in a dumpster, could be donated but nope, that's against company policy.

Not sure if it applies else where but if GW recalls stock and destroys it, but evidences it's destruction they get tax breaks.

I used to work retail for an entertainment store and couple of times got instructions to destroy dvd's, cd's and games after tearing of the back page to return to HQ.

 Ravenous D wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
It costs GW less to throw them away or ship them back, then put them on sale.

{citation needed}

That just sounds like made up BS to me. I don't believe it for a second. Basically every other retailer in the world will put things on sale before actually throwing them out. I think GW just has the deluded idea that if they keep the prices high they'll sell the same number of models as if they had put them on sale, thus they make more money by destroying old models and replacing them with new models than reducing the price of the old ones... ignoring the reality that almost every other retailer in the world follows which is that if something is on sale, the customer is quite likely to buy more stuff.

Then don't believe me, all the dreadfleet boxes and all the dusty unsold models are sitting in a land fill regardless of what you think.

I don't think I ever denied that they DO destroy product, I said that the idea that it costs the less to destroy them than put them on sale sounds like BS.

For quite a few years now GW has been loathed to put anything on sale. I could believe they do it because they are trying to promote an image of a premium product. I could believe they do it because they have a misplaced belief that people will buy the same number of models regardless of the price. I could believe they do it because they don't want customers waiting out for the next release simply so they can get the old stuff cheaper. It costing more to put them on sale rather than destroying them just sounds like a BS excuse they tell store managers as to why they're doing it.

Though if what SeanDrake said is true, that they get tax breaks for destroying them instead of selling them (which sounds crazy, but hey, governments are pretty fething crazy) then I could believe it.

Well following the rule of dumb I got a rumor too it is obvious what they are doing bringing everything home to set the building on fire to make a huge claim on fire insurance because 9th has to happen after end times it just so obvious and makes perfect sense.