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Forar wrote:Some people's struggles don't diminish the pain and suffering felt by others. It's not a misery Olympics where X sufferers get the Gold so the Silver and Bronze 'winners' should just be happy they don't have it worse.

At what point did I say any of this?

Forar wrote:Trans people's rate of attempted suicide is something like ten times that of the base population. An important part of their identity being a lazy punchline isn't helpful. Some in this thread are championing the limerick in a baffling fashion; it's neither original nor witty. It's The Big Bang Theory of orientation based humour.

This is more of an arugement that Trans people should be seeking professional help in this matter more, and working to actually solve the problem.

Complaining about a Joke, that may/may not offend certain people, isn't helping the matter. Instead of worrying about a line in a video game, You should worry more about actually tackling the issue at hand.

Forar wrote:Personally I see that the conversation is even happening to be beneficial. I'm sure there are large swathes of the population who never even think about how such things might be hurtful to others. In general we're pretty happily oblivious to the struggles of people who are different from us until it hits home.

Catering to everyone on everything that someone may find offensive, is impossible task, and completely unrealistic.

Forar wrote:So maybe the little limerick doesn't get changed, but at least having a conversation about how trans people are portrayed (even in a heated and 'lawlsjwomgbbq' that some might be) is probably more thought being aimed at how some people live than would've occurred otherwise.
So that's a win, I guess

In what way is this a "Win" All this has done is show some of the serious issues with social media. Look at some of these twitter feeds. It's turned into a joke. This is anything but a win.

So the Internet Outrage Machine is in full swing again?

This is about as much of a loss as possible. People who get so upset about a completely non-offensive joke are making a joke of themselves and social media responses portray this too well.

In the end, what came out of it in the eyes of the people, is that people identifying themselves as "trans" are not to be taken seriously and do not have any sense of humor.

What a great win. Wait...?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Only one hostile vocal minority is going to be happy and the rest will be disappointed that obsidian caved in.

Yeah. That is what I am starting to hate about gamer/geek culture now. Even if the change results in a better epitaph, people are still going to complain because they just hate others being made comfortable. I do not know if that qualifies as hateful or stupid or both or something else entirely, but this needs to go.

One persons view of better does not constitute better in the eyes of everyone else.

Irrelevant to what I am saying. You would be against the change even if you would have considered the replacing epitaph better had you not known why it was replaced. You do not want the epitaph to stay because you think it is good, or better than what would take its place. You want it to stay because you know someone wants it out. That is the only reason.

I see. So you must be very, very glad for GW's total contempt for feedback, then . But the rest of the world believe in giving and getting feedback.

Considering that GW features blood, gore, nudity, and all sorts of tasteless things, by your logic they would have to remove it all.

There's a vast difference between criticism (The prices are too high, things aren't doing well with assault, The Paladin isn't doing that well vs the Fighter) vs Censorship (Remove the blood and gore, Remove that Limerick, Remove All references to Slaanesh)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Only one hostile vocal minority is going to be happy and the rest will be disappointed that obsidian caved in.

Yeah. That is what I am starting to hate about gamer/geek culture now. Even if the change results in a better epitaph, people are still going to complain because they just hate others being made comfortable. I do not know if that qualifies as hateful or stupid or both or something else entirely, but this needs to go.

One persons view of better does not constitute better in the eyes of everyone else.

Irrelevant to what I am saying. You would be against the change even if you would have considered the replacing epitaph better had you not known why it was replaced. You do not want the epitaph to stay because you think it is good, or better than what would take its place. You want it to stay because you know someone wants it out. That is the only reason.

That's what you believe then, however it's because I dislike the blatant censorship, so yes I suppose you are correct on one account.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Just because something was assumed to have malicious intent does not mean the author had malicious intent.

That is why I never maligned the backer. Did I?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Considering that GW features blood, gore, nudity, and all sorts of tasteless things, by your logic they would have to remove it all.

You have not read my messages, then.
Go back find your answer in what I have already written.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There's a vast difference between criticism (The prices are too high, things aren't doing well with assault, The Paladin isn't doing that well vs the Fighter) vs Censorship (Remove the blood and gore, Remove that Limerick, Remove All references to Slaanesh)

So, does “Remove super-heavy from normal games” count as censorship, or what?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
That's what you believe then, however it's because I dislike the blatant censorship, you don't get to decipher my words when I'm being up front about it.

Yeah, you call that “being against censorship”. But it all boils down to “I care and I really want this to stay, but not because it is good, only because someone else wants to remove it”. Explain to me the difference here, in this case.

 Sigvatr wrote:
This is about as much of a loss as possible. People who get so upset about a completely non-offensive joke are making a joke of themselves and social media responses portray this too well.

In the end, what came out of it in the eyes of the people, is that people identifying themselves as "trans" are not to be taken seriously and do not have any sense of humor.

What a great win. Wait...?

Pretty much this.

Assuming it was just a harmless little joke, what most SJW's don't seem to understand (Because I'm sure there are a handful in this mess who are doing what they are doing because they believe it is right) is that by simply making this limerick go away, they are still leaving the issue unresolved (That they got offended) and we will go through this whole thing again the next time something like this happens.


Best to just kinda ignore the gravestone, don't buy the game, and just call it a day.

On one hand, I think the outrage is disproportional. Stating one's objections would have been quite enough.

On the other hand, do not be so quick to dismiss what others think and feel, especially when they have suffered things that you have had the Privilege™ to not suffer.

 Ashiraya wrote:
On one hand, I think the outrage is disproportional. Stating one's objections would have been quite enough.

On the other hand, do not be so quick to dismiss what others think and feel, especially when they have suffered things that you have had the Privilige™ to not suffer.

See, but I was a chick in the 40's, my boss is a woman, I hate everyone equally, and there's no one alive who can understand my sexual preference.

In other words......

CH-CH-CH-CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!

You have not read my messages, then.
Go back find your answer in what I have already written.

I have, and by your metrics they'd still have to remove various things within the subject lore.

So, does “Remove super-heavy from normal games” count as censorship, or what?

You honestly can't be serious with this question, is this a joke?

 Slarg232 wrote:
Best to just kinda ignore the gravestone, don't buy the game, and just call it a day.

You know, not buying the game would actually be stupid here. The game-makers are not directly responsible for it, and apparently the game is very good. What would be intelligent is for people to not dismiss the issue as irrelevant without stopping to give it a thought, but for them to actually stop for a few second, listen to what the people complaining have to say, understand their issue, empathize with them, and then alter a very little bit the game, and keep a little awareness of those issues at the back of their heads so that they do not hurt others unwillingly next time. But that would require more empathy than is available in most people, I am afraid.

I do have one final observation: "trans-misogynistic" might actually beat out "cisgender" on my list of stupid terms coined by people who don't understand latin.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I have, and by your metrics they'd still have to remove various things within the subject lore.

Name and give reasons, then.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I have, and by your metrics they'd still have to remove various things within the subject lore.

Name and give reasons, then.

I am not here to educate you.

 daedalus wrote:
I do have one final observation: "trans-misogynistic" might actually beat out "cisgender" on my list of stupid terms coined by people who don't understand latin.

I am pretty sure it's not intended to be grammatically correct Latin to begin with.

C'est la vie.

Okay. You have tons of proof I am wrong, but you are consciously withholding them away so that nobody can see them .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay. You have tons of proof I am wrong, but you are consciously withholding them away so that nobody can see them .

Wrong about what exactly? It's typically one's right to opinion, you can feel how you wish on the matter.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay. You have tons of proof I am wrong, but you are consciously withholding them away so that nobody can see them .

Wrong about what exactly? It's typically one's right to opinion, you can feel how you wish on the matter.

So, I am going to sum up. You are telling me that by my metrics, there would be tons more stuff than GW should remove from 40k. Except none of the things you already listed should be removed by my metrics. And rather than argument about it, you are now saying “It is just my opinion”?

And your overarching point is that changing stuff out of empathy for others is censorship and should never be done, even if it does not make the game worse, right .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Best to just kinda ignore the gravestone, don't buy the game, and just call it a day.

You know, not buying the game would actually be stupid here. The game-makers are not directly responsible for it, and apparently the game is very good. What would be intelligent is for people to not dismiss the issue as irrelevant without stopping to give it a thought, but for them to actually stop for a few second, listen to what the people complaining have to say, understand their issue, empathize with them, and then alter a very little bit the game, and keep a little awareness of those issues at the back of their heads so that they do not hurt others unwillingly next time. But that would require more empathy than is available in most people, I am afraid.

No, it would require the censorship of their game and how they offended a specific group of people by mistake. WHEN THEY DID NO SUCH THING.

That's what grinds my gears, the SJW are trying to pin blame where there is none, they are attempting to make an entity say "Yes, we screwed up" when they did no such thing and making said entity remove something out of their game (read, censor) when there's nothing to remove (read, censor).

Do you also know who got attacked for no reason? This guy:



The Internet looks like a freakin' witch hunt from the Dark Ages!

 Ashiraya wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I do have one final observation: "trans-misogynistic" might actually beat out "cisgender" on my list of stupid terms coined by people who don't understand latin.

I am pretty sure it's not intended to be grammatically correct Latin to begin with.

C'est la vie.

There's a difference between not conjugating Latin properly (which I don't think I could do most of the time) and attaching whatever meaning to whatever syllables you feel like. I mean, c'mon here. Misogyny has a specific meaning against a specific gender. Lazily attaching trans to the front of it without even modifying the -gyny portion kind of shows, to me, a lack of real thought about the matter, and hilariously distorts the term to what I would consider to be hatred against only one specific type of trans person anyway.

It might as well be transmisandry, except that doesn't evoke the same amount of bile.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay. You have tons of proof I am wrong, but you are consciously withholding them away so that nobody can see them .

Wrong about what exactly? It's typically one's right to opinion, you can feel how you wish on the matter.

So, I am going to sum up. You are telling me that by my metrics, there would be tons more stuff than GW should remove from 40k. Except none of the things you already listed should be removed by my metrics. And rather than argument about it, you are now saying “It is just my opinion”?

And your overarching point is that changing stuff out of empathy for others is censorship and should never be done, even if it does not make the game worse, right .

Yes opinions.

The problem your stating is that it's out of empathy, if that was the case then half the people crying for the censorship wouldn't be screaming hate at anyone who disagrees and the company itself, there is no empathy here, there is just typical hatred for something and forced censorship, the person who started all this for crying out loud had previously posted "Kill all men" and "It takes me several tweets to work up to putting men in concentration camps" These people are changing things out of Empathy?

I guess we should just completely stop making jokes and live our humorless lives until we die of complete boredom and misery.

This is what "they" want right?

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
No, it would require the censorship of their game and how they offended a specific group of people by mistake. WHEN THEY DID NO SUCH THING.

Censorship. The magic word that means you should be a jerk! Caring for other people would be censorship and therefore inherently bad!

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
That's what grinds my gears, the SJW are trying to pin blame where there is none

Just a little question for you. Where did I tried to pin blame, and on who? Can you tell me that?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
No, it would require the censorship of their game and how they offended a specific group of people by mistake. WHEN THEY DID NO SUCH THING.

Censorship. The magic word that means you should be a jerk! Caring for other people would be censorship and therefore inherently bad!

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
That's what grinds my gears, the SJW are trying to pin blame where there is none

Just a little question for you. Where did I tried to pin blame, and on who? Can you tell me that?

Yes, you are absolutely right, they are totally asking OBSIDIAN to remove said CONTENT from said GAME because they don't feel like OBSIDIAN screwed up.

Hey @Obsidian you should have said no to this backer. Transmisogyny is not acceptable in 2015

Oh and I totally see how a healthy discussion is good. TotalBiscuit says something, an #Campaign shows up, with a pretty offensive name. Yes, SJW, yes, show us how morally superior you are, unlike us, the monsters

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
No, it would require the censorship of their game and how they offended a specific group of people by mistake. WHEN THEY DID NO SUCH THING.

Censorship. The magic word that means you should be a jerk! Caring for other people would be censorship and therefore inherently bad!

Not should, but could. Not being censored is what allows me to say that Alpharius, Yakface, Legoburner, Motyak, and Kilkrazy are a bunch of ninnies, but I don't do that because I'm not a jerk(At least I would like to think I'm not....)


I'm allowed to say such, though, just like they are allowed to dole out any punishment they see fit, because they aren't censored.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The problem your stating is that it's out of empathy, if that was the case then half the people crying for the censorship wouldn't be screaming hate at anyone who disagrees and the company itself, there is no empathy here

So, am I screaming hate, or am I part of the other half? What about other members on this thread, can you point me to one that seems hateful to you?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
the person who started all this for crying out loud had previously posted "Kill all men" and "It takes me several tweets to work up to putting men in concentration camps"

Did not find that on her timeline. I found that though:
https://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582132814633705472
Sure, she seemed to hate the game and the company that made it, right! Of course!

So, am I screaming hate, or am I part of the other half? What about other members on this thread, can you point me to one that seems hateful to you?

Aside from a few odd misdirections I see you believe that you are trying to change things for the better.

Did not find that on her timeline. I found that though:
https://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582132814633705472
Sure, she seemed to hate the game and the company that made it, right! Of course!

https://archive.today/56XGn
https://archive.today/rJTjG
https://archive.today/Symxm

It's mostly that I find it just so..odd that one would claim to be empathetic to all and then blatantly post straight up sexist moments such as these, I thought one was trying to be inclusive, though thoughts on Pillars seems to be a bit less hateful, course I haven't really checked the twitter in a while because it became straight up depressing.

At this point, I kind of wonder if the whole thing wasn't just an elaborate trolling that somehow caught momentum.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Yes, you are absolutely right, they are totally asking OBSIDIAN to remove said CONTENT from said GAME because they don't feel like OBSIDIAN screwed up.

They are asking Obsidian to remove that content from the game. I do not see the problem.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Hey @Obsidian you should have said no to this backer. Transmisogyny is not acceptable in 2015

Are we quoting twitter?
https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/582200461127634945

@jesawyer @stillgray @icequeenerika @Obsidian dude A+, nice to see such a fast response.

@jesawyer @stillgray @icequeenerika @Obsidian Really appreciate it! Thank you!

.@jesawyer @stillgray @icequeenerika @Obsidian Thank you very much for listening on this Josh

vs

@jesawyer @stillgray @icequeenerika @Obsidian No spine whatsoever - only a loud, fringe minority of thin-skinned crybabies were offended.

@jesawyer @stillgray @icequeenerika @Obsidian I hope you're prepared to repay the backer their money.

That thread is a pure gold example of GG dictating dev's what they should do, to force them to be free to say what they do not want to say, by the way. Awesome fight against censorship!

Is it just me who wants to make more offensive jokes because of all this nonsense? Seriously, the urge grows.