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It really could go either way IMO. Auto hits don't hit flyer according to the BRB but the codex if it is considered in direct opposition would trump that. I don't think it does but it is extremely tough to tell. Rules questions are not really my thing though.

Yea its one of those weird inconsistencies

I mean a roll to hit was made, by the flyer, was just reflected back haha

Okay so:

Cohort Cybernetica as only detachment.

2000 point list.

What's the optimum build? Simply maxing out unit numbers without upgrades comes to just barely under 1850, so not many points for upgrades. I have a feeling dropping one Datasmith would go further, still allowing an even 6/6 split of robot fire and giving some extra upgrade wiggle room.

changemod wrote:
Okay so:

Cohort Cybernetica as only detachment.

2000 point list.

What's the optimum build? Simply maxing out unit numbers without upgrades comes to just barely under 1850, so not many points for upgrades. I have a feeling dropping one Datasmith would go further, still allowing an even 6/6 split of robot fire and giving some extra upgrade wiggle room.

Be careful of getting tarpitted.

BTW for anyone interested, Frontline is doing another War Congregation match tonight against Eldar on their twitch stream

Congregation or Convocation?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
BTW for anyone interested, Frontline is doing another War Congregation match tonight against Eldar on their twitch stream

Same time?

changemod wrote:
Okay so:

Cohort Cybernetica as only detachment.

2000 point list.

What's the optimum build? Simply maxing out unit numbers without upgrades comes to just barely under 1850, so not many points for upgrades. I have a feeling dropping one Datasmith would go further, still allowing an even 6/6 split of robot fire and giving some extra upgrade wiggle room.

Don't really have many options. I'd say slot in 4-5 flamers for overwatch and horde clearance, grab the IWND and Cognis relics, and... that's about all you can do.


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Oh, and all phosphor. Maybe two with fists. Maybe.

What are people's opinion on the Tech-Priest Dominus?

Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

Taking relics in combination with Destroyer or Breacher Squads seems to make him worth it. Would be kind of awesome to give a squad of heavy arc rifle breachers Cognis. how are people feeling about the optimum size for units when it comes to the Kataphrons? I'm thinking:

-Destroyers with Grav: Only ever run in units of 3.

-Breachers with Arc: Units of 3-5, Dominus here for Cognis.

-Breachers with Torsion: Units of 5 minimum, maximizes the amount of shots also put a Dominus here to utilize relics.

also is it better to give them Cognis Flamers or Phosphur Blasters on the Destroyers?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

For 105 points base in the War Convocation he's a steal with all the free upgrades you get.

He's pretty tanky (2+ FNP 3W) and the relics you pair him with make your bots so much better.

He's also one unit for the purposes of Canticles that is quite easy to hide.

His shooting isn't any slouch either, 8+ shots on a BS 5 platform? He murders light infantry in the open.

Dominus is not a tax.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

For 105 points base in the War Convocation he's a steal with all the free upgrades you get.

He's pretty tanky (2+ FNP 3W) and the relics you pair him with make your bots so much better.

He's also one unit for the purposes of Canticles that is quite easy to hide.

His shooting isn't any slouch either, 8+ shots on a BS 5 platform? He murders light infantry in the open.

Dominus is not a tax.

Any unit counts as a canticle contributor. I'd rather have one which outputs Grav/Arc fire or more Kastelans.

Relic carrying can be done by Datasmiths, which are no additional cost to Kastelans. They are also 2W 2+Sv FNP models.

He murders light infantry in the open - so do Skitarii Vanguard, Destroyers with Cognis Flamers, and Kastelans.

I'm not saying he's a bad model. He just doesn't bring much that AdMech isn't already capable of. He can carry relics for Kataphrons, that's unique. And his wound/HP renewal. That's it.

 gmaleron wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

Taking relics in combination with Destroyer or Breacher Squads seems to make him worth it. Would be kind of awesome to give a squad of heavy arc rifle breachers Cognis. how are people feeling about the optimum size for units when it comes to the Kataphrons? I'm thinking:

-Destroyers with Grav: Only ever run in units of 3.

-Breachers with Arc: Units of 3-5, Dominus here for Cognis.

-Breachers with Torsion: Units of 5 minimum, maximizes the amount of shots also put a Dominus here to utilize relics.

also is it better to give them Cognis Flamers or Phosphur Blasters on the Destroyers?

For Arc, I'd say 4. Typically, Canticles should give you enough re-rolls for them to achieve their objective of blowing up the most threatening enemy vehicles.

I usually leave one Kataphron with a Cognis Flamer just for the Cognis Flamewall USR. Kataphrons suffer from an abject lack of mobility - this lends them to potentially getting locked into CC by more mobile units. That Cognis Flamer, in my mind, might be the difference in killing off one model during Overwatch and thus causing them to fail charge. Similarly, I equip my Kastelans with one Incendine Combustor, for the ability to torrent-flame horde units out, and as Overwatch insurance (though it doesn't have Cognis, sadly).

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

For 105 points base in the War Convocation he's a steal with all the free upgrades you get.

He's pretty tanky (2+ FNP 3W) and the relics you pair him with make your bots so much better.

He's also one unit for the purposes of Canticles that is quite easy to hide.

His shooting isn't any slouch either, 8+ shots on a BS 5 platform? He murders light infantry in the open.

Dominus is not a tax.

Any unit counts as a canticle contributor. I'd rather have one which outputs Grav/Arc fire or more Kastelans.

Relic carrying can be done by Datasmiths, which are no additional cost to Kastelans. They are also 2W 2+Sv FNP models.

He murders light infantry in the open - so do Skitarii Vanguard, Destroyers with Cognis Flamers, and Kastelans.

I'm not saying he's a bad model. He just doesn't bring much that AdMech isn't already capable of. He can carry relics for Kataphrons, that's unique. And his wound/HP renewal. That's it.

The dominus brings HP renewal for an army made up up multi-wound units (other than the still sub-par priests, who he doesn't want to hang with anyway). He bring LD10, which is HUGE for those Destroyer/Breacher squadrons, who lack fearless and can be targeted by Maledictions and what not. He has a Volkite gun that is literally unlike anything else in 40k.

And, as an IC, he can add these to any unit on the board depending on what you want to use him for in a given game (unless you bring him in the Cohort). Which also means those Relics can be brought to units other than Robots, making them much more versatile on him than on a Datasmith.

For 105 points? Yeah, that's no "tax". That's a really, really good generic HQ unit.

Requizen wrote:
The dominus brings HP renewal for an army made up up multi-wound units (other than the still sub-par priests, who he doesn't want to hang with anyway). He bring LD10, which is HUGE for those Destroyer/Breacher squadrons, who lack fearless and can be targeted by Maledictions and what not. He has a Volkite gun that is literally unlike anything else in 40k.

And, as an IC, he can add these to any unit on the board depending on what you want to use him for in a given game (unless you bring him in the Cohort). Which also means those Relics can be brought to units other than Robots, making them much more versatile on him than on a Datasmith.

For 105 points? Yeah, that's no "tax". That's a really, really good generic HQ unit.

Touched on the HP/Wound renewal. It's good, won't deny it. Ld10 is less impressive to me considering the MSU tendency for Kataphrons. I wouldn't be too concerned about a unit falling back when I have 2-3 more to shore it up. Maledictions could hurt them I suppose - but the same ones that would bring them down to Ld6 would bring a unit including him down to Ld8, and prevailing opinion seems to be that 8 is bad (here I disagree). True, it's a benefit. Not a spectacular one, but it's there. Volkite is... unique? It's not exactly unlike anything else. At its core, it provides a high wound count vs GEQ. Woohoo, I guess. And yeah, he can be a relic caddy for Kataphrons, that's definitely a boon.

Again, I'm not saying he's bad. The Dominus is good. I consider him a tax because, given the option of including him or an additional unit of Kataphrons, another Kastelan, 2-3 more Datasmiths, etc - I'd choose the latter.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Touched on the HP/Wound renewal. It's good, won't deny it. Ld10 is less impressive to me considering the MSU tendency for Kataphrons. I wouldn't be too concerned about a unit falling back when I have 2-3 more to shore it up. Maledictions could hurt them I suppose - but the same ones that would bring them down to Ld6 would bring a unit including him down to Ld8, and prevailing opinion seems to be that 8 is bad (here I disagree). True, it's a benefit. Not a spectacular one, but it's there. Volkite is... unique? It's not exactly unlike anything else. At its core, it provides a high wound count vs GEQ. Woohoo, I guess. And yeah, he can be a relic caddy for Kataphrons, that's definitely a boon.

Again, I'm not saying he's bad. The Dominus is good. I consider him a tax because, given the option of including him or an additional unit of Kataphrons, another Kastelan, 2-3 more Datasmiths, etc - I'd choose the latter.

On the one hand, I kinda know what you mean. Though, I think a similar argument could be made against a lot of HQs (even many that are considered good).

Regardless, as a DE player, all I can say is that I wish my Haemonculi even came close to being as good and useful as the Tech-priest dominus.

I honestly have been loving the dominus in my cohort. For starters I run him with an eradication ray because this allows him to engage with a 24" gun that is also S6 ap3 and blast, so he would be engaging the same general targets as the kastellans. Him passing IWND could be done by a datasmith, sure, but what he gives the unit is IC. This means he can sit out front, with all of the datasmiths in the center surrounded by robits, the robits of course are closest to the dominus. This gives the unit SO MUCH MORE survivability than normal when he can just toss around LoS wounds onto bots, or even smiths, who can then just regen them.

If you watched the Frontline game, you could see how long those bots survived with how tough they are, now give them IWND with a dominus deciding who gets wounds when... As I posted in my review, the unit just DOES NOT DIE. We did a big test last night and my buddy using scatterbikes took the entire army 2 full turns of shooting to inflict 3 wounds on the unit, 1 of which was regen'ed. Bonkers nuts I say!

At least in that sense the dominus is great.


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Oh and hes only LD9 not 10

 gameandwatch wrote:
I honestly have been loving the dominus in my cohort. For starters I run him with an eradication ray because this allows him to engage with a 24" gun that is also S6 ap3 and blast, so he would be engaging the same general targets as the kastellans. Him passing IWND could be done by a datasmith, sure, but what he gives the unit is IC. This means he can sit out front, with all of the datasmiths in the center surrounded by robits, the robits of course are closest to the dominus. This gives the unit SO MUCH MORE survivability than normal when he can just toss around LoS wounds onto bots, or even smiths, who can then just regen them.

If you watched the Frontline game, you could see how long those bots survived with how tough they are, now give them IWND with a dominus deciding who gets wounds when... As I posted in my review, the unit just DOES NOT DIE. We did a big test last night and my buddy using scatterbikes took the entire army 2 full turns of shooting to inflict 3 wounds on the unit, 1 of which was regen'ed. Bonkers nuts I say!

At least in that sense the dominus is great.


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Oh and hes only LD9 not 10

This is valuable. Within the bounds of a Cohort, the Dominus is fantastic. Within a Battle Congregation, my opinion holds.

He's far from a tax, hes one of the best priced HQs in the game for what he does.

Good LD, shooty, fairly tough (toughness for but 2+, the ability to upgrade to 4++ and FNP, and can heal himself), could hold his own in melee if it came to it and is chock full of utility with his repair and his skull

He's a fantastic HQ

I think hes a good HQ, his statline isn't amazing but its not bad, and he comes laden with gear and special rules for his cost. He can still fire a weapon and repair in the same turn, and if you go first you can have him not attached to an unit to increase your unit count for first turn canticles, then join him to something so he is protected and can support the unit.

Well, I mean

Generic HQs can always feel like a bit of a tax. Overlords are great: WS/BS/T/S 5, W3, 3+ with the option to get 4++ and IWND, 2+ Relic, RP. Plus good weapons from Warscythes and what not.

But, they can feel like a tax if you end up in a situation where the Warscythe does nothing (shooting vs shooting), he's just going to end up maybe tanking some wounds and trying not to give up Warlord.

Same with things like Captains or some other ones, at least the Dominus has healing and good wargear to make him decent without upgrades.

He's no Flyrant, or IG CCS with Orders, or Greater Daemon/Prince, or Farseer with Psychic Powers, sure. But I would put him above a lot of generic HQs in the game, pound for pound.

I can't say this any other way - he's not a bad HQ, he simply doesn't bring enough that the army can't already do for the cost in my opinion.

Question:
Is having the Chordclaw+Transonic Razor loadout on Ruststalkers (and you have the mindscrambler grenades) better than the 2 transonic blade loadout (but no mindscrambler grenades )

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I can't say this any other way - he's not a bad HQ, he simply doesn't bring enough that the army can't already do for the cost in my opinion.

And most of us cant say this any other way - we disagree with your opinion, and think hes a great addition to the army

commander dante wrote:
Question:
Is having the Chordclaw+Transonic Razor loadout on Ruststalkers (and you have the mindscrambler grenades) better than the 2 transonic blade loadout (but no mindscrambler grenades )

I prefer that load out better, yes they lose 1 str, but they gain assault grenades, and a fleshbane attack

I mean, either way it's a moot point. If you're running CM and not just running pure Elimination Maniple and/or Numinous Conclave, you have to take a Dominus. Just kinda the way it is.

commander dante wrote:
Question:
Is having the Chordclaw+Transonic Razor loadout on Ruststalkers (and you have the mindscrambler grenades) better than the 2 transonic blade loadout (but no mindscrambler grenades )

Yes. I can't think of a situation where you'd want two blades, because losing the grenades is HUGE.

Fair enough, Wren. I felt as if there was something lost in translation (or rather something assumed) in me calling him a tax. Great model. Good survivability, decent shooting, decent buffs, and as Req points out - mandatory in most situations.

Id also like to point out that he is the only HQ I can think of that can have a marine killing small blast that can be fired every turn. Actually, the more I look at it his damage output is actually very high. S6 ap3 small blast or S8 ap 1 shot, 5 shot bolter-esque weapon, ap 2 close combat weapon or a haywire weapon with a bonus I10 attack... his shooting is better than his close combat but ap2 CC is nothing to snuff off. He is kinda a weird jack of all trades


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And yeah, must take rustalkers with grenades. Assault grenades is definitely important, but also remember that they are also haywire, which gives them an anti tank option


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, side question. With something like the erradication ray, that has multiple profiles, do you choose the profile when at a range shown in both profiles?

Meaning, 0-12 is one profile, 12-24, another, you choose which one at 12 right?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Much as I hate to say it, he's a tax. Gorgeous model, cool weaponry, but he really doesn't bring a whole lot to the army that it doesn't already have.

Really? He can bring IWND and his innate repair ability to a Cybernetica Cohort, acting as an extra 2+/4++/LOS tank for the unit, also with the option to chuck out a S6 AP3 template if he's not repairing or helping split fire. Indeed the IWND/Repair combo can make any unit in the 'dex extremely difficult to eliminate, very useful for the not-actually-that-tough Destroyers, particularly the Plasma variant, and on top of that he boosts their morale resilience with his leadership. The Scryerskull relic is pretty much the only thing that can elevate Torsion Breachers to the point they're worth taking relative to the other options. Bearing in mind he's the only one that can take those relics. No slouch in CC either.

Seriously, if this is what you consider a tax HQ, what isn't a tax HQ outside Draigo-esque cheese-laden deathstar-enablers?