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Ok so I was wondering but with Space Marine loyalists never swear due to how they are represented in the imperium, I was wondering would a Chaos Marine swear? after all hes broken any and all oaths from his former chapter, or could be an existing veteran form the Heresy I was wondering if there is anywhere in the BL books if they swear? (the only time I recall a SM swearing is was Gulliman called out Lorgar as a motherless bas d).

cheers to all comments

There's all kinds of swear words in BL books that are suitable for a PG-13 audience. I'm sure more than one SM has let loose with a "Throne of Terra!" or "these/this/that Emperor-damned" on more than one occasion.

Red Corsairs transmit a tirade of expletives and threats across all channels while attacking, so yes.

Not as much as Angry Marines but sure.

I always found it funny that thanks for the Black Library/GW trying to be kid friendly (which makes no damn sense considering the subject matter) that Imperial Guardsmen and Space Marines are more polite then real life armies, if not even less disturbing lol.

I mean, Chaos Cultists will kill you painfully, but there was an even more miserable time awaiting Germans when the Red Army was punching through their lines in WWII.

You can happily have your Warband of Chaos Space Marines murdering babies left and right, but Emperor help ye if you drop an F-Bomb.

 Wyzilla wrote:

You can happily have your Warband of Chaos Space Marines murdering babies left and right, but Emperor help ye if you drop an F-Bomb.

Art imitates life. I can see ISIS people (or what's left of them) on almost any news channel, or other (always foreign) war vicitms. Nudity though, that's pretty much gonna end civilisation if the kids see it.

In the Night Lords omnibus the CSM swear, it also draws attention to the Imperial curse 'Throne' being frowned upon among the LatD.

Yes, errebody swears in the IoM and CSM.

Wait marines don't swear?

The BL books are full of expletives, although they're meaningless in modern society.

Feth, Grox-head/other colorful nouns, Throne of Terra, God-Emperor, etc... are all substitutes for cussing. On top of some real cussing as well.

Feth that gak!

Yeah, a popular swear for the Ciaphis Cain novels is "frak"

"Emperor's Bowels!" is an imperial expletive that's somewhat commonly used. It's also my favorite swear ever.

Its not a "real" 40k expletive but "Emperor's Boxer Shorts" from TSOALR is pretty funny.

Sometimes I wish there was more proper swearing in the books, in those situations people would swear, and it feels a bit like they're pandering to a younger audience.

And it's always seemed weird to me that its a game about killing people, sometimes in really horrible ways, and that's fine; but God forbid there be a boob, or a swear word...

It makes total logical sense from a historical point of view.

American society is heavily shaped by the puritans (well, proto-puritan calvinists) who founded it, who were so prudish that they decided that England was too liberal and debauched and went to claim new territory...

...By murdering the locals.

Death and killing has to be socially acceptable to found a colony in an inhabited territory, but the colonists' personal attitudes and values were powerfully, powerfully anti-fun, anti-sex, pro-power, pro-personal-advancement.

North America has the double standard for the same reason it has its advanced form of cut-throat capitalism.

England? England is suffering from the splash damage. Because of England's proximity to more liberated (in some ways) countries like France and Germany, society here evolves a lot more rapidly than the geographically isolated Americas. Sexual liberation started powerfully in the UK, then it hit the US and, while it had some minor successes, the USA still held a much more powerfully calvinist base to its attitudes on sex and freedom, and you ended up with a kind of pressure gradient that resulted in the more subversive attitudes bleeding into some parts of the USA, but had the anti-sex US philosophies sliding on top of the gradient back into the UK, causing some very strange ideological clashes.

Huh, that's really interesting, thank you.

Vaguely off topic, but best swearing I've read in a BL book is "by Grimnir's hairy arse", think it's a dwarf slayer.

From what I've seen (and I have probably 30 BL books), warhammer ones have more swearing.

But how do you explain the porn? A lot of that comes from America, well the non-gaking on a table and eating it stuff anyway.
But you do get lots of fake pneumatic blondes with inflated boobs being pounded vigorously up the arse by some chiselled Adonis with a cock like an orang-utans shaved forearm holding a watermelon.

So yes, I think all military forces in 40k swear, I wonder what DE swearing is like. If it offends them, it must be pretty bad.

As I said, the more subversive parts managed to slip in under the radar. In the case of porn, it managed to get itself attached to money.

I kind of agree with GW's stance on swearing. It helps give 40k the feel that the universe does. I feel that if GW were to lift the ban on swearing, the 40k universe would quickly begin to feel unnecessarily vulgar, do to the combination of the already over-the-top violence *and* swearing. The lack of real swearing, I feel, also helps the 40k feel more like a high fantasy setting.

 Squidmanlolz wrote:
I kind of agree with GW's stance on swearing. It helps give 40k the feel that the universe does. I feel that if GW were to lift the ban on swearing, the 40k universe would quickly begin to feel unnecessarily vulgar, do to the combination of the already over-the-top violence *and* swearing. The lack of real swearing, I feel, also helps the 40k feel more like a high fantasy setting.

I disagree, but only assuming that they handled swearing well, and didn't go over the top with it. However this is GW so really I probably agree with you.

Not at all biased then, Furyou.

Not to say you're altogether wrong or inaccurate, just... prejudiced. For myself, I think you also have to take into account the closeness to the themes. In the kind of relatively peaceful, sheltered societies or even demographics that might indulge in GW games, it's much easier to make the decision to get some girl up the duff when she's about to go to college or something, then run off; than it is to make the decision to go to war, go through the training and prep, shoot at a bunch of people, and be shot at and possibly killed yourself. I think it's somewhat related to the old chestnut: "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." It's more difficult to empathise with something that doesn't directly affect you, or is more difficult to visualise.

Especially when the 'warfare' is against fantastical ratmen or futuristic big-monsters. That's the other thing: 40K, with it's emphasis on uber-characters and 'forging the narrative', is almost more like superhero adventures, despite how many pots of Tamiya clear red or 'Blood for the Blood God' are sold. Or even because of it. I've long been of the opinion that the OTT grimdarkness is what appeals to the young teens that are GW's bread and butter - 'badass', 'grown up', and maybe a bit illicit - rather than simply being a shocking illustration of reactionary hypocrisy.

With more, ah... mature, or sedate, wargames, the kind that at one time informed GW games, I think it's a bit different. I don't know if you'll find too many Napoleonic collections with every bayonet liberally slathered with red, for example. In my view and experience, most games and the people who play them, are more about the strategy and tactics; the adventure and spectacle; the opportunity of exploring a setting, period or event in a certain way; rather than getting the chance to act out their secret violent, murderous tendencies with little metal and plastic proxies.
With historical wargames in particular, I think the kind of interest and research involved tends to familiarise gamers with the tragedy and ridiculousness of war. Case in point: I've been watching the old WWII documentary series 'The World at War'. Now there's a show that definitely portrays the horrors of war rather than the 'glamour'; but in one episode old soldiers who suffered through some of those horrors still said that there was a certain 'beauty' in some circumstances and aspects. I don't know if I can put my finger on exactly what they meant, but it certainly wasn't portrayed as glorification of murder and death. More like some of what I've already mentioned, alongside other things. As another example, a couple of quotes from a certain author of one of the first miniature wargames, who'd also suffered through similar horrors: "You only have to play at Little Wars three or four times to realise just what a blundering thing Great War must be," and "How much better is this amiable miniature than the Real Thing!"

Getting back to the original topic, or thereabouts: I don't know how many 40K kids are devouring as many BL novels as they can, but I'd assume it's less than total, with the books being aimed at a somewhat older audience. If they are, and if parents aren't monitoring their kids' media for stuff they feel to be age-inappropriate, that's on them. Although it is going to be impossible to completely wrap their children in cotton wool, and I'll refer back to my original argument: some of the kind of violence in BL novels might not be appropriate for kids, but I guess parents may be less worried about little Johnny forming a blood cult and declaring war on the next street, than about keeping a civil tongue in his head.

Fugging strabo!

«Emperor hairy ass!» A Space Marine Scout who lost three fingers to an ork shot. Yes Space Marine swear. Guardsmen swear (my favorite is:«by the Emperor shrivelled balls»). Hell even Sisters swear, but only with blasphemy sanctionned by the Ecclesiarchy.

epronovost wrote:
Hell even Sisters swear, but only with blasphemy sanctionned by the Ecclesiarchy.

And only if they have a prepaid ticket of indulgence left... therefore only the higher ranks can afford to swear alot, it's a luxury to swear

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It makes total logical sense from a historical point of view.

American society is heavily shaped by the puritans (well, proto-puritan calvinists) who founded it, who were so prudish that they decided that England was too liberal and debauched and went to claim new territory...

...By murdering the locals.

Death and killing has to be socially acceptable to found a colony in an inhabited territory, but the colonists' personal attitudes and values were powerfully, powerfully anti-fun, anti-sex, pro-power, pro-personal-advancement.

North America has the double standard for the same reason it has its advanced form of cut-throat capitalism.

England? England is suffering from the splash damage. Because of England's proximity to more liberated (in some ways) countries like France and Germany, society here evolves a lot more rapidly than the geographically isolated Americas. Sexual liberation started powerfully in the UK, then it hit the US and, while it had some minor successes, the USA still held a much more powerfully calvinist base to its attitudes on sex and freedom, and you ended up with a kind of pressure gradient that resulted in the more subversive attitudes bleeding into some parts of the USA, but had the anti-sex US philosophies sliding on top of the gradient back into the UK, causing some very strange ideological clashes.

You do realize that GW is based in England right?

It would make sense if they were an American company, but they aren't.

 Grey Templar wrote:

You do realize that GW is based in England right?

It would make sense if they were an American company, but they aren't.

You realize that one needs to read until the end right?...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
but had the anti-sex US philosophies sliding on top of the gradient back into the UK, causing some very strange ideological clashes.

 Vermis wrote:
I've long been of the opinion that the OTT grimdarkness is what appeals to the young teens that are GW's bread and butter - 'badass', 'grown up', and maybe a bit illicit - rather than simply being a shocking illustration of reactionary hypocrisy.

I agree, but I'd also like to add I've always had the feeling the "GW wargaming community" (as opposed to, and at the same time included in, the much bigger "wargaming community") is to a certain degree made up of many teenage-minded individuals.

Not saying it's something truly "good" or "bad", it's just my impression. In example, Matt Ward's fluff, a perfect example of poor quality teenage fanfiction, even if it's reviled my the majority of "hobbysts", still has its share of fans. And considering the current demographics of 40k (it's clearly not a game the average teenager can afford) I'd say most Wardinites* are actually adults. Adults with quite a "teenage" taste when it comes to literature, but adults nonetheless.

In regards to no real swearing in 40k, well, it's understandable. As I see it, 40k nowadays is a bit of an odd mixture between 80s - early 90s action movies, and late 90s - 00s action movies. It has all the blood and "cool kickass action heroes" from the 80s, but also the PG-13 feel that has turned the mainstream action genre into a sad parody of itself in latest years. 40k is just like the average PG-13 action film but with extra gallons of blood to fit the "grimdark" theme - moar like grimdork these days anyway. In any case, at the end, you have a fluff that most of the time reads like inmature fanfiction, always trying too hard to look too cool and "edgy", and looking silly as a result. Older fluff tended to be better but mostly because it really didn't take itself seriously. It was silly and well aware of it, and that made it feel more honest and easier (at least for me) to forgive its flaws. Now it's just "wow zo zeriouz, luk at me".

*not a big fan of name calling, but I've seen this term being used and doesn't seem too insulting so I'd give it a go here.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You do realize that GW is based in England right?

It would make sense if they were an American company, but they aren't.

Yes, I happen to live less than an hour from their HQ. Please read to the end, where in conclusion I bring my rather rambling sociological history back to the point. America is big. There's an old saying: "In England, a hundred miles is a long way, but in America, a hundred years is a long time."

America has a massive cultural impact on the rest of the world simply due to the sheer scale of their entertainment industry. Thing is, that industry has only really become that massive in the last fifty years or so, which means that England, which started from a similar point but changed more quickly (avoiding the word 'advanced' because Vermis is right, it is biased language, which I should be avoiding), is now feeling the impact of the US pulling it back towards where it was five hundred years ago - in large countries, well-managed countries (like the post-New-Deal USA), industrial and economic power can advance massively, while at the same time having so many people means that ideas, which is to say social changes, happen a lot more slowly.

Oh no, I'd agree with the advanced point referring to culture. America right now has somethings more in common with Russia and fething Iran then western European nations. We're also bipolar, likely due to our nature as a melting pot of cultures and thus swing between difference cultural stances constantly.

But not really relating to swearing, but overall, I wish 40K, especially Chaos, would mature more and go into what's more or less "true darkness" instead of just dudes in power armor with spikes on them, or cartoonish devils with swords running around. Chaos is supposed to be the destroyer, then end of days and well, Chaos, yet it often feels or is portaryed like a cartoon character compared to Lovecraftian horror. Rather then feeling like Entropy or Misery incarnate, they come across as a child's understanding of Dagon, Cthulhu, Nyarlathotep, etc.