Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone, tonight at my FLGS me and my friends got into a serious debate about the future of supplement books based upon how the recent releases have gone. Several of my friends are convinced that Supplement books are being phased out based upon the recent new releases being labeled "Codex: Khorne Demonkin" and "Codex: Adeptus Mechanics Skittari". Basically codexes that are not their own faction will be discontinued and they feel this will happen in particular to the books that will be redone, the ones that came out in 6th edition. What are your guys thoughts on this and what do you think may happen?

There is a thread in News and rumors. Eldar are getting a new codex very soon.

 Sarigar wrote:
There is a thread in News and rumors. Eldar are getting a new codex very soon.

I did not see that,I'll tweak the thread to fit the supplement book discussion

one of the biggest complaints about the supplement series was how few rules where in the books so I could totally see GW moving towards "mini faction codices" instead of supplements

Agreed, they felt more like 'fluff' books then anything else.
"Here is a whole bunch of lore based stuff, many more pictures of things you should buy from us and... oh, this one new Unit and a new 'relics' list"

The supplements were a missed opportunity; they could have made things more diverse and interesting, but GW's rules follow a few incompatible principles:

No Negatives - Rules are not structure to present direct negatives. Occasional restriction on action *must challenge, must X" but not a direct restriction (may not take/use X) or downside for powerful rules (such as FW's Seige Assault Vanguard list for SM: place additional objective in enemy deployment zone, can only draw at best if not captured).

Codex is Law - Unit profiles/wargear are immutable and can not be different from the core codex. This remains true for Daemonkin as well which only saw a few tweaked, though still very similar USRs. Something like a Steel Legion supplement with "Ork Hunters" using BS4 Chimeras and having extra close-combat capacity on guardsmen would be complete anathema, as it would break too strongly with the core codex.

No Model Without Rules - Supplements were clearly never prioritized in GW's system, just sort of bashed together with no model support. Without model support, you were never going to see any genuinely new units, which was a real failure, as these represented an ideal opportunity to redo outdated sculpts (Zerkers, Crisis Suits, etc) but were instead thrown out as basic money-grabs.

This more standalone approach they seem to be moving towards actually requires fewer purchases from the player; the books are self-contained, non-reliant on the core codex with more perceived value due to having more rules printed in them (though I'd argue Daemonkin doesn't do much more rules wise than Farsight Enclaves or Crimson Slaughter). However, they don't represent much of a difference otherwise; their quality and level of contribution to the game as a whole is about the same as GW just will not offer genuinely different ways to play an army.

Considering FW has been offering real "Supplements" for years now, I just don't get how GW can so consistently fail to deliver.

I see Supplements being taken over by Campaign books. TWO Factions, more pictures and a gameplay supplement to boot. I think Leviathan was Death from the Skies and Exterminatus had a revised Planetfall? Maybe? I might be wrong. But, both had Supplements in them. Leviathan in Leviathan (fancy that eh?), Flesh Tearers, Archangels and Mephrit Dynasty in Exterminatus. Makes the book a bit more worth the money since Formations were included in each Faction too.

So, if we follow that idea and assuming the next campaign is Tau vs Raven Guard, we'd likely get a 'Third Sphere Expansion' book all about Tau, and maybe using an updated Cityfight ruleset. Or Spearhead, which I'm actually hoping for. Some White Dwarf releases to accompany it. Then the box set and the third part would be about Raven Guard and their special Detachment. I seriously doubt this will happen so remember I'm just using this as an example to illustrate a point. But one Detachment would be the Raven Guard Assault Squads led by Shrike, giving some bonus to ASM squads since I doubt they'd be troops. Another Detachment might be the Raptors, complete with their fancy 'Rending Heavy 1 Bolters' from Forge World. There's your supplements right there. A Raptors and a Shadow Captain's Company supplement rolled into one book. Maybe throw in an Astra Militarum or Mechanicus Detachment in there too because that's the new thing.

I'd like it if they went that way instead of the $50-4 page of use crap they want us to buy.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
I see Supplements being taken over by Campaign books. TWO Factions, more pictures and a gameplay supplement to boot. I think Leviathan was Death from the Skies and Exterminatus had a revised Planetfall? Maybe? I might be wrong. But, both had Supplements in them. Leviathan in Leviathan (fancy that eh?), Flesh Tearers, Archangels and Mephrit Dynasty in Exterminatus. Makes the book a bit more worth the money since Formations were included in each Faction too.

So, if we follow that idea and assuming the next campaign is Tau vs Raven Guard, we'd likely get a 'Third Sphere Expansion' book all about Tau, and maybe using an updated Cityfight ruleset. Or Spearhead, which I'm actually hoping for. Some White Dwarf releases to accompany it. Then the box set and the third part would be about Raven Guard and their special Detachment. I seriously doubt this will happen so remember I'm just using this as an example to illustrate a point. But one Detachment would be the Raven Guard Assault Squads led by Shrike, giving some bonus to ASM squads since I doubt they'd be troops. Another Detachment might be the Raptors, complete with their fancy 'Rending Heavy 1 Bolters' from Forge World. There's your supplements right there. A Raptors and a Shadow Captain's Company supplement rolled into one book. Maybe throw in an Astra Militarum or Mechanicus Detachment in there too because that's the new thing.

I'd like it if they went that way instead of the $50-4 page of use crap they want us to buy.

The campaign books do offer more real value; the formations offer distinct ways to play heavily based in general fluff and specific stuff in their campaign, though still wildly imbalanced as formations tend to be. This also comes with various alternate missions, and overall seeks to replicate the success of the Imperial Armour series. The quality isn't there yet, but I'd be much more likely to buy something like Shield of Baal than any supplement should it offer anything relevant or interesting.

The way I see it, since Orks and Space Wolves (earlier 7th ed. books) have supplements, is that if it is it's own playable faction (Harlequins, Skittari, ext) then it can be played on it's own, hence "codex". But Waagh Ghazkull and Champions of Fenris just have additional formations/detachments/relics/warlord traits/ext based on a slightly different, fluffy playstyle based around their LoW. I see supplements continuing, as I hope to see one for Necrons down the road.

No Negatives - Rules are not structure to present direct negatives. Occasional restriction on action *must challenge, must X" but not a direct restriction (may not take/use X) or downside for powerful rules (such as FW's Seige Assault Vanguard list for SM: place additional objective in enemy deployment zone, can only draw at best if not captured).

What about the Coven's codex? Only able to use things that are thematically covens.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

No Negatives - Rules are not structure to present direct negatives. Occasional restriction on action *must challenge, must X" but not a direct restriction (may not take/use X) or downside for powerful rules (such as FW's Seige Assault Vanguard list for SM: place additional objective in enemy deployment zone, can only draw at best if not captured).

What about the Coven's codex? Only able to use things that are thematically covens.

An exception to the rule; Farsight Enclaves can take Ethereals for instance, because reasons. Granted, that was an earlier supplement, but none aide from Coven has had any real consequential restrictions. Daemonkin is by the far most divergent supplement they've produced (naming convention aside, it basically is a supplement, or closer to what it should be).

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

No Negatives - Rules are not structure to present direct negatives. Occasional restriction on action *must challenge, must X" but not a direct restriction (may not take/use X) or downside for powerful rules (such as FW's Seige Assault Vanguard list for SM: place additional objective in enemy deployment zone, can only draw at best if not captured).

What about the Coven's codex? Only able to use things that are thematically covens.

An exception to the rule; Farsight Enclaves can take Ethereals for instance, because reasons. Granted, that was an earlier supplement, but none aide from Coven has had any real consequential restrictions. Daemonkin is by the far most divergent supplement they've produced (naming convention aside, it basically is a supplement, or closer to what it should be).

Black Legion is one with consequences, take the worthless VOTLW on everything that can

But yeah I understand what you mean.

I guess not. We don't really know what GW plans in the (near) future.