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Nationals for STAW just happened over the weekend of April 11th-12th.

Congratulations to Danial Dattola for winning Nationals! Top 3 builds were:

Sphere/picard(9), sphere/tactical reroll drone/admiral worf, hideki fighters/galor class phaser banks

Sphere/picard(9)/tasha yar, queen vessel/dukat, second of five, hideki fighters

Sphere/dukat/madred, prototype 01/gareb (salatrel)/cloaked mines x3, hideki fighters/galor class phasers/coordinated attack/aft disruptors

Taken from the STAW Facebook Page.

My comments:
None of these builds show any kind of sophistication or optimization. For example, the Prototype 01, Gareb/Salatrel, Cloaked Mines x3 ship- could easily have been a Praetus and saved 10 points to be used elsewhere like in a unique talent or something. The Fighters, much like the Borg, are a no brainer to take. They can't be one-shoted. No matter how much damage they are dealt, they only lose one stack. Point for point, they are the best ships in the game. Sphere/Picard is the best ship/captain pairing in the game, and we've seen this combo since it came out. The more I look at that third list, the more I scratch my head.

All these lists relied on one thing to win: Brute force. No punking of cards, disabling shields/systems, no tricks, no maneuvering tactics... just fly straight at each other and throw as many dice as possible, and hope your dice are better then theirs.

I was there, trust me that Prototype 001 earned its points. It allowed him to take a 3rd cloaked mine and the ship ability to heal saved it in several games. Every player he faced was frustrated with Madred and all of the players were worried about playing him. He had a very solid list that synergized well. He used the Drone to put out the cloaked mines to herd stuff to Madred and then smack them with the Sphere/fighters. The Praetus would have been shot way too easily, the Romulan guy he lost it every game. If your strapped for points and you want a captain yeah go preatus, but for just mine laying the drone works well.

It's all Borg/Fighter combos. Wow how boring and utterly unsavory the tournament meta is with this game. All the more reason this game needs something to expand its playaility outside a borg ship and free action captians with a fighter escort.

one non-borg/ship in the top 3. Time to give up anytype of tourney play for me. I was considering this years qualifer events but not now.

They were some dull games to watch. The most interesting one was the Romulan vs Feds, which came down to a simultaneous fire between GenKhan on a Scimitar and Picard on Voyager. That was a great game, both players played very well. It was fun to see who Madred would pick on, but outside of that it was a lot of fighters and Borg just bashing each other around.


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Most of the guys I talked to said they only brought Borg because they expected everyone else to have them. Also most expressed how dull they have made the game. One guy did berate Andrew Parks whenever he was within ear shot for "ruining a great game with Borg". Parks DID NOT pay STAW much attention as he was focused on D&D, which I found a little arrogant. I did talk to one guy that used to be a STAW play tester he said he was involved with the 50pt limit and there was some talk about moving some of the smaller factions into independent, wouldn't msay which ones. He wouldn't go into any more info about play testing, but said he is no longer with that test group he is now in Dice Masters, Clix, and D&D.

Why don't they just ban the Borg Sphere, cube, diamond and be done with it?

Yeah saw those lists on Facebook. And the faction mixers and Borg lovers say they're not the problem in this game....

Nationals should be Faction pure, at best being able to take multiple factions of ships, but none is allowed to take upgrades outside of their faction.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Nationals should be Faction pure, at best being able to take multiple factions of ships, but none is allowed to take upgrades outside of their faction.

Agreed. If they scooped Ferengi, Vulcan and Bajoran into independent they is no excuses anymore. All through the Dominion War it was "there aren't enough cards for faction pure" then it was "well that is how the game was ment to be played" or "you make the smaller factions unplayable without help". Well no one is currently playing them anyway so what's the difference.

4 of us were talking to the play tester about that most people didn't buy in to have two borg cubes circle around a planet. His only response was "well there is only one cube here today"

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
It's all Borg/Fighter combos. Wow how boring and utterly unsavory the tournament meta is with this game. All the more reason this game needs something to expand its playaility outside a borg ship and free action captians with a fighter escort.

one non-borg/ship in the top 3. Time to give up anytype of tourney play for me. I was considering this years qualifer events but not now.

I think it's time for a "Point Defense System" secondary weapon to counter fighters. Something like... 5 damage, range 1-2 and gets around the kill 1 stack per attack limit?

Walshicus wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
It's all Borg/Fighter combos. Wow how boring and utterly unsavory the tournament meta is with this game. All the more reason this game needs something to expand its playaility outside a borg ship and free action captians with a fighter escort.

one non-borg/ship in the top 3. Time to give up anytype of tourney play for me. I was considering this years qualifer events but not now.

I think it's time for a "Point Defense System" secondary weapon to counter fighters. Something like... 5 damage, range 1-2 and gets around the kill 1 stack per attack limit?

I wonder if having a crit destroy two tokens would nerf them too much

There are plenty of ways to counter fighters like using counter attack. In my opinion there are much better non borg ships in the game than fighters.

Very true. I don't see fighters as being as big of a problem as borg, however I see multiple fighters as a creeping problem. Cloaked mines are the best counter to them that I see right now because fighters can't scan or get a way to roll defense against them. Disruptor Pulse could become an anti fighter thing, but we'll have to see if they take off. Forward Weapons Grid and Counter Attack have been around since wave 0 but never really taken hold.

Others may disagree with me an they are entitled to, but I see multiple fighter squads in standard size games as a bad thing for the game. I would have liked to see them released with multiple named squads but still limited to one per fleet. Fighters + Borg make for one dull event.

Ya I play in a very small group of friends we kind of have code of honor when it comes to spamming and cheeses so we really don't have a lot of problems that bigger tournament groups have like spamming fighters.

 ds9lord wrote:
Ya I play in a very small group of friends we kind of have code of honor when it comes to spamming and cheeses so we really don't have a lot of problems that bigger tournament groups have like spamming fighters.

This works, for the most part in a casual group that probably doesn't play in a public venue/LGS. If you participate in the OP's at an LGS, you have no control over who may show up, and unless you say "Fleet Pure" or "Faction Pure" or "No Borg", you will more than likely get that one guy with a Sphere/Picard, Octahedron/whoever, and Fighters.

Happened in my group. We had a Gentleman's Agreement that we wouldn't play Borg until our second OP when 8 new players showed up- and 6 of them were playing Borg. My regular play group/OP Venue just about self destructed in December/January, until we changed the prize distribution. Just winning the OP doesn't guarantee a prize ship.

This kind of no holds barred, WAAC play style will always be dominated by Borg until something changes, and I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

^ All of this is why I'm not a competitive gamer any more. Trek CCG hit a very similar problem with Alternate Universe decks dominating top-level play for a long time, mostly running off Future Enterprise (and that was a £75 chase card on a good day). However, Decipher's attempts to fix the meta were equally half-arsed. It is a perennial problem with competitive play, but frustrating nonetheless.

There is nothing stopping us organizing our own games, nothing stopping stores opening pay to play competitions with whatever rules they want to include and part of the pay entry going into prizes.

If the huge competition/tourney circuits can exist for 40k without the slightest support from the company, surely STAW selling stores and players with the inclination, can just allow the OTs to go on and create something alongside them/instead of them.

Give borg a pts handicap, slap them with a house rule. Tinker until there's balance. Fleet pure is a big step towards that.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
There is nothing stopping us organizing our own games, nothing stopping stores opening pay to play competitions with whatever rules they want to include and part of the pay entry going into prizes.

Actually there is nothing stopping TOs from making house rules for OPs. WK even gives a spot on there registered event system for "House Rules", but for some reason STAW TOs don't really take advantage of it. From what I understand TOs for clix use it quite a bit.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
There is nothing stopping us organizing our own games, nothing stopping stores opening pay to play competitions with whatever rules they want to include and part of the pay entry going into prizes.

Actually there is nothing stopping TOs from making house rules for OPs. WK even gives a spot on there registered event system for "House Rules", but for some reason STAW TOs don't really take advantage of it. From what I understand TOs for clix use it quite a bit.

1. Faction pure for the big factions, smaller factions may be considered independent and used alongside those/with each other.

2. All borg weaponry is restricted to range 2.

3. 1 fighter unit per 2 ships with hull greater than 4.

tada!

I like it. I would fold Bajorans, Ferengi, and Kazon into Independents. I'm on the fence about Vulcans. They could go in independents, but they have a lot of stuff on their own. 8472 can survive on their own. They currently only have 1 expansion buy in faction pure 3 of them can do alright, plus they get a 2nd ship later this year.

So if we fold Vulcans into independents we can get down to 7 factions. Federation, Klingon, Romulans, Dominion, Borg, 8472, Independents.

Why not Bajorans and Vulcans into Fed? It would make some bit of theme sense.

Feds are already top dog when it comes to number of options, they don't really need anything else. They still have 5 more announced expansions and more in the works I'm sure. Vulcans would make sense, but they are already Federation light, there are already Fed ships that can do everything the Vulcans have. They would add more to independents than to the feds.

There is no in canon reason to add Bajorans to the feds. As with vulcans they add more to Indy. Plus Odo is already indy why not send Kira with him?

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
I like it. I would fold Bajorans, Ferengi, and Kazon into Independents. I'm on the fence about Vulcans. They could go in independents, but they have a lot of stuff on their own. 8472 can survive on their own. They currently only have 1 expansion buy in faction pure 3 of them can do alright, plus they get a 2nd ship later this year.

So if we fold Vulcans into independents we can get down to 7 factions. Federation, Klingon, Romulans, Dominion, Borg, 8472, Independents.

...and mirror...

curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

Yeah, forgot them so 8 factions

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:


There is no in canon reason to add Bajorans to the feds. As with vulcans they add more to Indy. Plus Odo is already indy why not send Kira with him?

They have so few things, and with Deep Space Nine already being dual Bajoran/Federation that was my thinking. Personally I would rather just see rules for "do not pay faction penalty on a (fill in the blank) ship" for the smaller factions rather than have them become part of a faction, with the ships themselves becoming dual faction/independent. I think from the start they could have really done more with the Indy faction by letting it mix freely.

The Bajorans are short on options but they will get a few more when the Retosa comes out in a few months. However they can do alright. 5 interceptors with Warp Drive Refit and Phaser Strike is 110 then add Kira, Day Kanu, and Blockade for 118. 5 ships hitting at skill 10 wit TL and 4 of them getting BS too is nothing to sneeze at


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You could drop the Warp Drive Refit and take the indy flagship that gives +1 attack to friendly ships. It's not a super complicated list but it coulf give some people trouble, ie Borg, or destroy someone's fighters before they can fire. Bajorans will struggle against cloaking fleets but that is in a way a balance. The interceptor is a nimble little thing. A friend told me he went to an Arena OP where someone won with 4 interceptors.

If I were king of the world of Wizkids, I'd have designed 'Independents' into alpha quadrant indies, delta quadrant indies and perhaps even a 'scum and villainy' type faction with naasicans, that ship with all the aliens with really bad wigs etc.

That sounds like an op resource that would then make them grotesquely powerful for a few months. Very wizkids.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If I were king of the world of Wizkids, I'd have designed 'Independents' into alpha quadrant indies, delta quadrant indies and perhaps even a 'scum and villainy' type faction with naasicans, that ship with all the aliens with really bad wigs etc.

That is what I find cool about independents the way they are. You can have Khan on a Hirogen ship with Maquis crew, and Gorn Tech. Khan & Maquis feels very Scum and Villainy to me