Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/04/18 21:12:07
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Manchu wrote: Your side is indisputably correct while the other side is a pack of shameless liars ... yeah you don't sound anything like a culture warrior.
I see, so if the facts clearly favor one side and anyone dares to point this out they're a "culture warrior"? Is it also "culture war" to criticize a (hypothetical) flat earth theorist teacher, or a math teacher that is teaching 1+1=3?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/04/18 21:14:29
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Manchu wrote: The premise of driving education is not that kids are already driving. But that is a premise of sex education.
No, it isn't. The premise (to continue your driving analogy) is that they will be driving in the future (which there is a good chance they will) and if you give them preliminary advice and, most importantly, accurate information (automatic vs manual gearbox, diesel vs petrol, the highway code etc.) you will make it much easier and safer for them when they actually come to driving that first time.
It is idiotic to say that sex education assumes that they are already sexually active and if that were the case then abstinence teaching would be even more of a waste of time and taxpayer money
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/04/18 21:23:28
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/04/18 21:20:18
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
As parents we have to face the fact that our children are going to become pubescent and get into potentially sexual relationships.
Therefore we have to consider the best ways to help them avoid early intercourse, pregnancy and STDs.
No sex education, and abstinence based sex education, have proven less effective in achieving good results compared to pragmatic sexuality education that includes relationship counselling.
A Town Called Malus wrote: It is idiotic to assume that sex education assumes that they are already sexually active
Why? Do you really find it hard to believe that minors are having sex?
My question goes to the legality: Minors are incapable of consent and therefore any intercourse they have is illicit. So has the lesson changed from "don't have sex until you are married" to "don't have sex until you are eighteen years old" or whatever the jurisdiction recognizes as the age of majority?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/18 21:26:06
A Town Called Malus wrote: It is idiotic to assume that sex education assumes that they are already sexually active
Why?
Because that is not how it is taught.
You don't need to think that someone is already sexually active to think that they might, in the future, want to know how to put a condom on or what types of contraception are available and how effective they are, or warning signs of an abusive relationship and what constitutes consent.
My question goes to the legality: Minors are incapable of consent and therefore any intercourse they have is illicit. So has the lesson changed from "don't have sex until you are married" to "don't have sex until you are eighteen years old" or whatever the jurisdiction recognizes as the age of majority?
A lot of these children will have underage sex. Is it better that they know about contraception and how to stay safe when doing so or that they feel they must hide it and so expose themselves to more risk?
Also, these lessons will often also cover physical and emotional changes that they will undergo or are undergoing during puberty.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/18 21:29:47
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/04/18 21:28:09
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Manchu wrote: [Why? Do you really find it hard to believe that minors are having sex?
Nice job missing the point there. You claimed that the premise is that they are already having sex, they pointed out that the actual assumption is that they may be currently having sex or may be having it in the near future.
Minors are incapable of consent and therefore any intercourse they have is illicit.
Not true. Most states have an exception to "under 18 = no legal consent" laws that include minors within a certain age rage of each other. Also, let's not forget the difference between the legal definition of consent and the ethical one. The two are often the same, but not always.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/04/18 21:32:43
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Well obviously. Hence my question when it comes to teaching about consent.
Because even if they do not have underage sex, it would probably be worth their while to be taught that someone who is very drunk is not in a fit state to give consent, or that if someone pressures you into having sex then that does not mean that you gave consent etc.
In response to your earlier question about age of consent laws, these classes will typically, in my experience, say that you should not have sex until you personally feel that you are ready. If you are in a relationship with someone and you want to have sex with that person then you should wait until you are both ready.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/18 21:35:29
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/04/18 21:33:26
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Peregrine wrote: the difference between the legal definition of consent and the ethical one
That's a very good point and should play a major part in sex education.
A Town Called Malus wrote: it would probably be worth their while to be taught that someone who is very drunk is not in a fit state to give consent, or that if someone pressures you into having sex then that does not mean that you gave consent etc
Do you think we disagree?
Manchu wrote: This is probably most apparent when it comes to the topic of consent. TBH I don't remember getting much if any information on that. But I would argue it is pretty crucial, certainly as important as information on anatomy, reproduction, and disease.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/18 21:35:00
A Town Called Malus wrote: It is idiotic to assume that sex education assumes that they are already sexually active
Why?
It's idiotic to assume that they are definitely having sex. It's not idiotic to assume they might be having sex. Regardless, them currently having sex is completely irrelevant to the fact that you can teach them about how consent works. Heck, you can even put into the lesson that legally there is no way that a person of certain age can give consent to another person.
Also, a phrase about everyone's favorite wookie comes to mind...
2015/04/18 22:10:13
Subject: Re:Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
"Put up" a condom? I somehow doubt what you learned is correct.
Not a problem coming from sex ed, but likely a problem from our English courses, I guess. What would the correct expression be?
Peregrine wrote: Since when is opposing blatant lying and scare tactics "bully culture"?
Since it has been contradicting the teachings of a guy with a funny hat? Seems obvious to me. You are Kultural Kombating the Man in White. That is… evil!
Manchu wrote: Culture warriors always present ideological battles as their FACTS versus their opponents' OPINIONS. That's a rhetorical tactic. You have used it in pretty much every one of your posts ITT, for example.
In our story, mom taught this tactic to son. Son dutifully carried out mom's plan and the abstinence culture warrior immediately tried the same tactic in response, except she hadn't even bothered to come armed with internet print outs. Poor planning!
I get your point. Facts are only rhetorical points and teaching them correctly rather than making them up is not something that matters beside Kultural Kombat. feth facts, who cares about them beside angry ideologues?
If one Kultural Warrior Justice Kombatant (of Death) comes armed with truthful, relevant useful facts and another Kultural Warrior Justice Kombatant (of Death) comes armed with approximations and lies, well, one of them is giving truthful, relevant useful facts to the children (which is good) and the other one is giving them approximations and lies, which is bad. Now if the second Kultural Kombatant was mandated by the state to give truthful, relevant useful facts, it makes him or her giving approximations and lies instead super bad. End of the match, the Mother Kombatant is doing good things, and the Teacher Kombatant is doing terrible things. Finish him/her!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/04/18 22:20:53
Subject: Re:Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: End of the match, the Mother Kombatant is doing good things, and the Teacher Kombatant is doing terrible things. Finish him/her!
That is exactly how mom and some posters here see things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/18 22:22:35
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, because the kind of dishonest right-wing zealots that let this stuff into schools in the first place are genuinely interested in doing the right thing for their students and willing to consider alternatives if someone just politely suggests them...
And cursing in front of students and being confrontational is better? Because of this person's actions are the school reviewing the teaching of sex ed?
2015/04/18 23:26:44
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Manchu wrote: If I was ever taught about abstinence in sex ed, I have totally forgotten. We were taught about fundamental facts about anatonmy, pregnancy, disease, and contraception. I don't think there was much on the subject of feelings or mutual respect or whatnot.
Gotta say, the mom here sounds like a serious donkey-cave.
In what way is cursing in front of students, and letting the Twitterverse know that you want to use your sex life as an anecdotal point of argument better than a discussion with the people who implement the curriculum?
2015/04/19 02:00:29
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
I thought you were asking if it was better to be a jerk while correcting errors in school content or be someone who legislates the sex-ed curriculum to match your beliefs but fails to make sure said legally required teachings are accurate.
There are a lot of better ways to do what she did and I hate that we can find so many examples of people doing that across the country. I also think some of the people in this thread attacking people for attacking her are being ridiculous.
2015/04/19 06:47:41
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Manchu wrote: Your side is indisputably correct while the other side is a pack of shameless liars ... yeah you don't sound anything like a culture warrior.
I think we should start sacrificing infants to Shhllrrrg, God of Doors and Tables, who opens the Great Door in the Sky so that the Sun rises every day. You say there's no such door? CULTURE WAR!
If one side of a "debate" (and I use that term quite wrongly) is spreading false information about a subject, either out of ignorance or out of malice, then they're wrong by definition. Full stop, end of.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/04/19 12:41:17
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
What I am finding interesting about this thread is that the info is entirely one sided.
One highly partisan blogger states their opinion and paraphrased what the opposed viewpoints were from their own perspective, with added ridicule.
The visiting teacher could have said anything, the info given is so blatantly one sided that no conclusions or judgement calls can be made from it.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/04/19 14:20:36
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
In school systems they will allow people into the school if they are passed through and are wearing an identification badge that identifies them properly as a Visitor. Every school has this and parents are allowed to enter into a school if there kids are aware of it and the school has been properly informed.
On the sex educational thing. I agree with the mother but believe it could of been handled much better. The fact that sexual abistience is still taught and is still a thing. Makes me remind myself that it doesn't work.... At all.Maybe 5% of people actually follow that line of thinking and they are mostly from religious strict orders.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 15:04:00
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/04/19 15:35:07
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Asherian Command wrote: In school systems they will allow people into the school if they are passed through and are wearing an identification badge that identifies them properly as a Visitor. Every school has this and parents are allowed to enter into a school if there kids are aware of it and the school has been properly informed.
On the sex educational thing. I agree with the mother but believe it could of been handled much better. The fact that sexual abistience is still taught and is still a thing. Makes me remind myself that it doesn't work.... At all.Maybe 5% of people actually follow that line of thinking and they are mostly from religious strict orders.
Yeah, most research on abstinence only education has found that it delays sexual activity by about 6 to 12 months. However it also made it that once they did become sexually active they were less likely to use contraception.
The states with abstinence only education are also more likely to have higher rates of teenage pregnancy and repeat teenage pregnancy (ie the same person has got pregnant twice).
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/04/19 15:56:35
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
Asherian Command wrote: In school systems they will allow people into the school if they are passed through and are wearing an identification badge that identifies them properly as a Visitor. Every school has this and parents are allowed to enter into a school if there kids are aware of it and the school has been properly informed.
On the sex educational thing. I agree with the mother but believe it could of been handled much better. The fact that sexual abstinence is still taught and is still a thing. Makes me remind myself that it doesn't work.... At all.Maybe 5% of people actually follow that line of thinking and they are mostly from religious strict orders.
Yeah, most research on abstinence only education has found that it delays sexual activity by about 6 to 12 months. However it also made it that once they did become sexually active they were less likely to use contraception.
The states with abstinence only education are also more likely to have higher rates of teenage pregnancy and repeat teenage pregnancy (ie the same person has got pregnant twice).
I thought so
Glad I am right on this.
And people agree with me on it.
Because the "think of the children!" line of thinking is doing oh so well. Parents being protective of their children will only harm them, than help them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 15:57:19
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/04/19 16:15:54
Subject: Professor attends and live tweets sons Sex Education Class. Hilarity Ensues.
skyth wrote: The thing is, the report cooberates other stories that have been told.
Stories about these speakers? Please post them.
You guys keep talking about abstinence-only education. Did you just miss that this story is not about that or are you "blatantly lying" and/or "spreading false information about a subject out of ignorance or malice"?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 16:18:54
The environment I was taught in taught that masturbation and sex in general was a bad thing.
If you masturbated it was consider a crime against god!
Though I don't think my experiences line up with everyone elses experiences.
Or maybe they do. As life is sonder that way. (real word!)
Before I went to university all my education was through Catholic schools. When it came to sex ed we were taught about reproduction, contraception, the rhythm method, abstinence, etc. and while it was mentioned that sex outside marriage was considered a sin, it was done without fire and brimstone and with the reminder that sins could be confessed and absolved
Was your sex ed really a Monty Python skit?
NSFW warning
