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Or is it all mech vet lists?

I am bumping this, i don't play competitive but i play guard.

My understanding is that platoons take to long to set up for a tournament timescale, otherwise guard would be the end all be all army, few can generate enough shots to surely kill everything.

I understand your contrarian desire to use an under-appreciated build, and even empathize.

But in this case, no, no I do not think it has a place in competitive lists.

Bumping again, why might you say that Jimsolo?

I'll jump in with my limited experience. In non timed games platoons have a place definitely. They can be very useful and geared to do so much. I've scared my local tau/eldar super player with some of my platoon builds. I will be honest and say it is very annoying to set up and put up 4 platoons again and again (for me since 5th edition) and playing mech vets is like a vacation. I also played and actually took first place in a timed tourney with a 1500pt list with 2 full platoons.

You have to go in with a plan and a system. In movement move the first rank then conservatively and quickly move the other guys behind them. When you take casualties place them on your tv tray or case so you don't have to waste time later.

I'm a fan of platoons over vets and there are a lot of articles and guides on how to speed up tourney play. (Mostly with orks).

 portugus wrote:
I'll jump in with my limited experience. In non timed games platoons have a place definitely. They can be very useful and geared to do so much. I've scared my local tau/eldar super player with some of my platoon builds. I will be honest and say it is very annoying to set up and put up 4 platoons again and again (for me since 5th edition) and playing mech vets is like a vacation. I also played and actually took first place in a timed tourney with a 1500pt list with 2 full platoons.

You have to go in with a plan and a system. In movement move the first rank then conservatively and quickly move the other guys behind them. When you take casualties place them on your tv tray or case so you don't have to waste time later.

I'm a fan of platoons over vets and there are a lot of articles and guides on how to speed up tourney play. (Mostly with orks).

Thank you for this.

I was mostly referring to unit / army effectiveness.

Not really the annoyance of moving lots of models(I play Orks)

On a side note. I have vostroyan guard. Do you think fluff wise try wrk as platoons or just veterans?

Portugus did you use an Aegis Defense line? Sometimes I feel like its a hindrance, other times it has saved me. Also the last time I played platoon guard was when I fought Tyranids. He had 1 squad of 3 artillery MCs. Those things wiped out nearly every model in the platoon in a single turn. After that I was mechanized every time because the artillery just hurts too much.

I played against a platoon listwith wyverns, knight and flyers.

It was only a close game because my Flyrants whiffed the Wall of Flame Haywire. Had it gone through, I would have got a crushing victory.

No Biovores used, but I had enough shots and psychic powers to go their way. It didn't help when they failed a Ld check and ran off the board, allowing me to land inside the ADL and wreak havoc.

 ultimentra wrote:
Portugus did you use an Aegis Defense line? Sometimes I feel like its a hindrance, other times it has saved me. Also the last time I played platoon guard was when I fought Tyranids. He had 1 squad of 3 artillery MCs. Those things wiped out nearly every model in the platoon in a single turn. After that I was mechanized every time because the artillery just hurts too much.

Nah I don't use an aegis, I prefer rushing towards the enemy. It is very useful if you are using a lascannon blob and probably worth the points for the protection.

Yep that sounds about right for those biovores and you adapted to it well. Soon those tyranids will change and your mech vets will get creamed then you change back to blobs or a mix. That's a healthy meta, both players changing and adapting to each other, it's what makes you a better player and keeps things fresh. But yeah artillery is very dangerous against blobs and it brings both a tear of sadness and joy to watch them die in droves.

@Dalymiddleboro - I think both blobs and vets can totally be viable. Also I feel vostroyans are more towards blobs and maybe a vet squad or two on foot. The first thing I think of is Commander Chenkov with his "Send in the next wave!" rule. Endless conscripts pouring against the enemy. I miss him so much. But maybe I saw too many Russian WW2 movies. (Enemy at the gates)

@Frozocrone - Sounds like a good game. He should've put a priest in there or a Company standard nearby. Tyranids have a lot of cool tools to use.

For those concerned with tournament movement, have you considered movement trays? GW makes (made?) a range of them for the latter days of their LotR game, and they might be handy. The disadvantage is lack of flexibility, but with an aegis and 300 models, well, you should be ok.

Also, let me second the scariness which is platoons of lasgunners running at you. If you take a modest blob of 40, you can chuck out 120 lasgun shots in a turn, or 80 ignores cover. Oh, and should I mention the ease with which you can make these guys armor rerolling hatred infused zealots or stubborn ld 10 inquisitor caddies or invisible rerolling 4++ invulnerable badasses? Oh, your giant death robot kills twenty men? That's fine, I've got 300 more back here some place. Have a few dozen krak grenades for your trouble.

Add a spanish xeno inquisitor with nades, servo sculls, liber heresius and hammerhand or some other power depending on your foe. A priest. Primaris psycher or two fishing for 4++ and levitate.

Like 3-4 power axes and 5 melta bombs. around 3 meltas could do.

You've got a bunch of potentially scouting guyz that have access to 4++, are fearless and thanks to rad nades strike as if they were s4 in the first round of combat. Can get buffed to s6. Have Hatred and can reroll to-wounds thank to priest when needed. Also, s5-7 power axes and force axes or s6-8 maces if you run primaris psychers.

Guyz are dead killy up close. If you get levitate, they can reliably get wherever they need, shoot down the foe and chop leftovers afterwards. Also, don't forget to use counter-attack and other liber heresius buffs.

Can also go for Yarik as he's a source of not-squishy senior officer orders and a decent power fist that's very hard to lay down. Will probably have to place primaris psychers in other squads - like conscripts or a second platoon as he's gona shoot them down one by one if they dare to peril.

 koooaei wrote:
Add a spanish xeno inquisitor with nades, servo sculls, liber heresius and hammerhand or some other power depending on your foe. A priest. Primaris psycher or two fishing for 4++ and levitate.

Like 3-4 power axes and 5 melta bombs. around 3 meltas could do.

You've got a bunch of potentially scouting guyz that have access to 4++, are fearless and thanks to rad nades strike as if they were s4 in the first round of combat. Can get buffed to s6. Have Hatred and can reroll to-wounds thank to priest when needed. Also, s5-7 power axes and force axes or s6-8 maces if you run primaris psychers.

Guyz are dead killy up close. If you get levitate, they can reliably get wherever they need, shoot down the foe and chop leftovers afterwards. Also, don't forget to use counter-attack and other liber heresius buffs.

Can also go for Yarik as he's a source of not-squishy senior officer orders and a decent power fist that's very hard to lay down. Will probably have to place primaris psychers in other squads - like conscripts or a second platoon as he's gona shoot them down one by one if they dare to peril.

I love using levitating blobs and i'm a fan of the primaris power too. I like the idea of a conscript blob with an inquisitor using a psyocculum as well. (gives the entire unit BS10 vs psykers)

But vets can concentrate a lot of firepower in a small space and will be one of the ways to kill wraithknights and imperial knight titans. Demo vets, sure they go last but there will be enough melta bombs to lay a good hurt on them.

You could use an inquisitor with conscripts to scout forward and eat enemy fire.

Hammerhand makes them pretty scary with s5 in mellee (s6 in the first round with nades). Can pop counter-attack wneh needed. A priest and they've got hatred and fearless.

If the enemy is shooting them down or going to tarpit(!) them with an av12+ walker, just jump your inquisitor in a nearby squad. The enemy has just wasted half his game shooting down or chasing 3 ppm conscripts.

Ether wrote:
For those concerned with tournament movement, have you considered movement trays? GW makes (made?) a range of them for the latter days of their LotR game, and they might be handy. The disadvantage is lack of flexibility, but with an aegis and 300 models, well, you should be ok.

Also, let me second the scariness which is platoons of lasgunners running at you. If you take a modest blob of 40, you can chuck out 120 lasgun shots in a turn, or 80 ignores cover. Oh, and should I mention the ease with which you can make these guys armor rerolling hatred infused zealots or stubborn ld 10 inquisitor caddies or invisible rerolling 4++ invulnerable badasses? Oh, your giant death robot kills twenty men? That's fine, I've got 300 more back here some place. Have a few dozen krak grenades for your trouble.

Wasn't chenkov valhallan?

Yep, you're right. Got my different armies mixed up.

From my experience blobs are very reliable. I usually bring a 40 man with lascannons and melta bombs, priest, pysker, and inquisitor. The combination of a CCS ordering this unit, plus psychic powers means what they shoot typically dies. They are not mobile but are very good at holding the back field while you can move up with the rest. They can take a punishment and beat most units in assault through sheer amount of str 3 attacks rerolling to hit, rerolling to wound.

Vets on the other hand are good, and pack alot of power for a few models with all the special weapons. But are very fragile. In the end I use a combination of a blob squad and a vet squad or two to go deeper into enemy territory.

IMO, blobs are very effective, though I love them for the Conscripts you can take as part of the platoon, throw some priests and commissars in there to make a 50 man Conscript blob(only 150 pts) into a CC monster.

 Bonachinonin wrote:
From my experience blobs are very reliable. I usually bring a 40 man with lascannons and melta bombs, priest, pysker, and inquisitor. The combination of a CCS ordering this unit, plus psychic powers means what they shoot typically dies. They are not mobile but are very good at holding the back field while you can move up with the rest. They can take a punishment and beat most units in assault through sheer amount of str 3 attacks rerolling to hit, rerolling to wound.

Vets on the other hand are good, and pack alot of power for a few models with all the special weapons. But are very fragile. In the end I use a combination of a blob squad and a vet squad or two to go deeper into enemy territory.

I use the same build for my platoon blob minus the inquisitor. Most effective build I've found.

The inquisitor is there to put them over the top. My favorite lately has been psyocculum inquisitor with them. Bs10 lascannons or frfsrf on psyker units. Can be like 100 shots that all hit. Grey knights are terrified.

Of course rad and psytroke are amazing.

I usually get a combined platoon of 20 with meltabombs and vox, then I use them for bubblewrapping my more important units.

Tournaments are very not much the place for platoon guard, green tide, scuttling swarm, or cultist/zombie mob focused lists. Can they be competitive in a less time constrained setting? Certainly. But competitive as in "wins tournaments"? No, tournaments are not suitable for that kind of high model count play unless you're like a wizard at unpacking, repacking, and moving around large numbers of models.

Platoon Guard is a wonderful anwer to modern games overabundance of StrD. When you have enough units to lose a unit or two a turn to SD weapons and still wn on objectives, it is a wonderful feeling to see the outrage on your opponents' faces.

It's just too much of a hassle. Mech guard is fun and easy. I'm sure that fielding 100 guardsmen and 100 conscripts with priests for 1000 points would be hard to take out, especially when they're objective secured and just blob any objective. But transporting, setting up, and managing that many models is a chore, and I don't want to play 40k the chore.

I have no idea how you could play with 200 models and meet any tournament's time limits.

as someone else already mentioned, movement trays are perfectly acceptable. depending on how complicated you want them to get, you could magnetize them, make them out of a loose flowing material (so they can be made smaller as the unit takes casualties) and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I've played againt hordes in tournaments. And I've used them (not in tournies though). it IS demorilizing to play against when the game times out in turn two without your opponent getting to deal with your force. I would suggest talking to a TO about instituting a death clock type of setup - so that both players have an equal amount of time to play the game.

 Bonachinonin wrote:
The inquisitor is there to put them over the top. My favorite lately has been psyocculum inquisitor with them. Bs10 lascannons or frfsrf on psyker units. Can be like 100 shots that all hit. Grey knights are terrified.

Of course rad and psytroke are amazing.

Can you explain this inquisitor to me he sounds amazing

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Or is it all mech vet lists?

Blob platoons can. A big platoon with a priest and a grip of upgrade weapons sitting on a flank can have uses.

But the old school traditional platoon of individual units does not really, simply way too easy to kill without having any corresponding firepower value. It doesn't help that mechanized platoons got hit with a massive unnecessary cost increase with the last codex as well, going up 40pts base for a minimum sized mechanized platoon. I used to run those all the time.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Or is it all mech vet lists?

Blob platoons can. A big platoon with a priest and a grip of upgrade weapons sitting on a flank can have uses.

But the old school traditional platoon of individual units does not really, simply way too easy to kill without having any corresponding firepower value. It doesn't help that mechanized platoons got hit with a massive unnecessary cost increase with the last codex as well, going up 40pts base for a minimum sized mechanized platoon. I used to run those all the time.

Whats a mechanized platoon?

I recently took a 215 model guard + inquisition list to a tourney. I wasn't really prepared enough for the time constraints in the first game (we only got to turn 3...) but by being more organised in the next two I was able to finish them.

This was my 1750pts list:

Company command squad with master of ordinance 80pts
Company command squad with master of ordinance 80pts
2 priests 50pts
Commissar 25pts

3 Infantry Platoons, consisting of these units:

3 Combined Squads 218pts
3 Lascannons
3 Bolters
1 Melta Bomb
Accompanied by inquisitor

3 Combined Squads 213pts
3 Lascannons
3 Bolters
Accompanied by commissar

4 Combined Squads 264pts
4 Autocannons
4 bolters
2 melta bombs and 1 set of krak grenades
Accompanied by coteaz

Platoon command squad with Autocannon 40pts
Platoon command squad with Autocannon 40pts
Platoon command squad with Autocannon 40pts

30 conscripts accompanied by a priest 90pts
27 conscripts accompanied by a priest 81pts

5 Tempestus scions with 2 meltaguns 90pts
Wyvern 65pts

Inquisition

Inquisitor with ML1 55pts
Coteaz 100pts

10 Henchmen warband - 7 acolytes with bolters, 2 with plasma guns and a psyker 73pts
10 Henchmen warband - 7 acolytes with bolters, 2 with plasma guns and a psyker 73pts
10 Henchmen warband - 7 acolytes with bolters, 2 with plasma guns and a psyker 73pts

The henchmen did well, as did coteaz and the wyvern was the star of the show, hiding behind LOS blocking terrain. I think I was, in hindsight, fortunate with my matchups. If I'd come up against knights or high AV targets, it might have been worse!

I won on objectives against a SM grav star + knight player (though it may have been closer if we'd gone full time...)
I lost against a deathwing build by linebreaker (this due to extremely bad luck, with my home objective randomly disappearing due to a scenario rule. I would have tabled him next turn if we'd run full time and the majority of my army was intact. We got to turn 4)
I tabled a GK + Draigo centstar build (who did have a bit of bad luck with his invisibility for a turn admittedly. Coteaz also instant-deathed a dreadknight lol!)

Blob guard are awesome. However you need to maximize the fact that they are 50 models getting unit wide buffs. Take priests, take cypher, take yarrick. take sang priests, take pods.

Anything that buffs on a unit wide basis is going to really help guard.

Saw this cool build the other day where he took melta vets and a cmd squad with meltas in BA pods, had them deepstrike in the pods and then the CCS gave them both orders on the turn they dropped.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Bonachinonin wrote:
The inquisitor is there to put them over the top. My favorite lately has been psyocculum inquisitor with them. Bs10 lascannons or frfsrf on psyker units. Can be like 100 shots that all hit. Grey knights are terrified.

Of course rad and psytroke are amazing.

Can you explain this inquisitor to me he sounds amazing

Just a hereticus inquisitor. Psyker lvl 1, Servoskulls, psyocculum, and maybe a liber heresius. The psyocculum allows the inquisitor and his unit to shoot a psyker or a unit containing a psyker at bs 10. Go first against tyranids. Ignore cover and those lascannons are dropping a tyrant. Is that a librarian with those termies? Lasguns hooo.

I like xeno inquisitor for a bunch of nades. Suddenly, guards become s4 and the enemy has 1/3 chance to get completely screwed in mellee with psychostroke. Furthermore, hammerhand and counter-attack will make them hit even harder. But the inquisition Hammerhand is +1 str instead of +2 iirc. Still good enough.