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Hi all, I'm thinking about building a 1000pts Imperial Fists (Space Marine) army, and this is what I have come up with. I'm a new player and don't really know how good/bad this armylist is due to my lack of experience.

HQ - 120
Librarian with Mastery Level 2, Terminator Armour, Force Axe and Storm Bolter - 120

Troops - 300
10 ManTactical Squad with Flamer 75
Razorback with las/ twin plas 75
10 ManTactical Squad with Flamer 75
Razorback with las/ twin plas 75

Elites - 340
5 Sternguard with Chainsword Sargent 120
Razorback with las/plas 75
Ironclad Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer 145

Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 240
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 2 Lascannons and 2 Missile Launchers 140

1000 points exactly

 Redluck78 wrote:


Troops - 300
10 ManTactical Squad with Flamer 75
Razorback with las/ twin plas 75
10 ManTactical Squad with Flamer 75
Razorback with las/ twin plas 75

...

Ironclad Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer 145

It may have just been a typo but did you realize you've only costed for 5 man tactical squads @ 75 point?
I'm new to this as well (and also writing up a Fists (albeit Crimson ones) list - how are you going to get your Ironclad across the table as you seem to have kitted him out for close quarters fighting?

I agree with the above 10 man tac squads aren't 75 w/ Flamer a tac squad starts at 5 models and you add points for every model after that. It's a common mistake made by new players though even I did it. Don't bother with the Razorbacks if you do take a 10 man because they only house 6 models each take rhinos instead for 10 man squads. If you do this 2 rhinos are only 70 points total with that you can either take some scouts or even another tac squad for the points you'll be saving

First, Welcome to Dakka!

Overall your list structure looks fine. You have a healthy mix of anti-tank and anti-troop firepower, and some good mobility.

Where is your librarian going? He’s not bad, but is out of place. I’d drop the terminator armor and stick him in with a squad, probably the sternguard.

Razorbacks have some nice firepower, but are fragile. I’m not a huge fan of them, but they can work. I generally prefer full 10 man squads in rhinos, but that’s just my old fashioned Ultramarine speaking.

How do you feel about drop pods? Both the sternguard and the ironclad get a lot of use out of them. If you do want to keep your feet on the ground (nothing wrong with that) I might give the starnguard a rhino, rather then a razor, and use the points saved to boost the squad size. Bolter fire, even with special ammo, needs volume to work.

I’m a big fan of dreads, ironclads included. But footslogging a CC dread is not the best. I experimented once with the hurricane bolter and it worked OK. He was tougher then a normal dread, but the hurricane bolter just lacked the punch of the bigger guns.

TFC is money in the bank vs. horde armies, and your devs are solid. I might go all-LC, but including the MLs gives you some flexibility. Assuming your scatter die doesn’t hate you like mine does.

Imperial Fists have some great things about them, and they are a wonderful army to play! They are very forgiving in their Chapter Tactics, and can be mastered quickly.

The first thing I'd recommend is the supplement: Sentinels of Terra. The relics and enhancements to the Chapter Tactics are great. It's a wonderful buy!

Now, on to the list. Dev squads are excellent thanks to tank hunter, but you may as well go with four lascannons if you can. For just a few points more, the AP2 and extra strength are well worth it. Being able to penetrate AV14, with re-rolls is priceless.

The TFC is a great unit. It's versatile and point-effective, and can fill almost any gap in your army and be useful against almost any unit type.

As for the Troops, Tactical squads with bolters are nice, a nod again to your chapter tactics. Scouts can be great as well if given bolters. I like the standard Rhino with more bodies compared to the Razorback. I think firing a special weapon and matching combi from the Rhino's hatch is good enough. Investing a lot more points for a turret weapon on the Razorback feels too expensive to me, especially when the armor value is still relatively low.

Hope that helps!

Wow I wasn't expecting this many replies! I realize I make several newb mistakes and have updated this list to:

whatever I'll post it now



V2



HQ - 90
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2 and Force Axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 320
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Razorback w/ tl autocannon 75
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Razorback w/ tl autocannon 75

Elites - 340
5 Sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 120
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer 145

Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

1000 points exactly (again)

However I have A LOT of questions. Don't feel you have to answer them all but it would be nice if you could contribute

1)with sternguard melta do you mean the gun or combi? And how many?
2)Also if I have sternguards in a drop pod won't i HAVE to drop it in first turn? And would it be a better idea to drop pod EVERYTHING and buy a seperate tank(s)/flyer?
3)And finally do you think the CC Ironclad and Thunderfire are good choices?

Thanks for all the feedback (If you want here is a link to this post on Bolter&Chainsword:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306715-1000-points-imperial-fists-beginner-list/

The Razorbacks have assault cannons, not autocannons. The combi-melta on the sgt doesn't match the flamer (you want your weapons to have the same purpose) so I'd either ditch the combi-melta or upgrade the flamer to melta (maybe drop the melta bombs to maintain points?) You have enough melta and anti-tank I think so I'd gear them up to fight infantry near an objective.

As for the Sternguard, you're paying a premium in points for their special ammo. Don't get rid of the bolters on any of them. The combi weapons are nice because you keep the bolter portion and get a solid round of shooting with the special weapon's profile... and especially don't replace the bolter with a chainsword (or whatever you're going for.. always take the bolt pistol so you can shoot before charging if you ever have to).

The Ironclad is nice if you can bust open a transport the same turn he comes in, and take dual heavy flamers to roast the contents.

Yes, I would move most of your force to drop pods, but at this point level it's going to be tough to find the points. The Ironclad may not be a good choice right now because you don't have a way to get him into combat.

Hmm after reading all replies I may switch out to rhinos and larger squads for tic tac marines maybe 3rd squad or scouts? I have been told to drop pod in the cc dread and use the sternguard with combi-meltas and tank hunt. I do really want a higher troop count though :(

 Redluck78 wrote:
Wow I wasn't expecting this many replies! I realize I make several newb mistakes and have updated this list to:

whatever I'll post it now

V2

HQ - 90
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2 and Force Axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 320
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Razorback w/ tl autocannon 75
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Razorback w/ tl autocannon 75

Elites - 340
5 Sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 120
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer 145

Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

1000 points exactly (again)

However I have A LOT of questions. Don't feel you have to answer them all but it would be nice if you could contribute

1)with sternguard melta do you mean the gun or combi? And how many?
2)Also if I have sternguards in a drop pod won't i HAVE to drop it in first turn? And would it be a better idea to drop pod EVERYTHING and buy a seperate tank(s)/flyer?
3)And finally do you think the CC Ironclad and Thunderfire are good choices?

Thanks for all the feedback (If you want here is a link to this post on Bolter&Chainsword:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306715-1000-points-imperial-fists-beginner-list/

Razorbacks can’t take autocannons, you might be thinking about assault cannons. The TLAsC is not the best option IMHO. It’s expensive, and short ranged on a fragile box. If you are shelling out the points for a big gun, the las/plas gives you a nice long range option, while still having some close in fire.

I’d match the sarges combi to the squad special. If you want to mix them up, have one flamer and one melta squad. But if you end up needing to shoot at a tank, the rest of the squad is going to sit idly while the sarge takes his one pot shot.

You almost never want to take the special ammo away from the sternguard, so I’d stick to the combis. IMHO the only thing worth dropping the bolter for is a HF. That said, I prefer larger squads with more bodies, and find the combis are overpriced at 10ppm. There is almost alway something to shoot at with the special ammo. Some people do like the suicide melta squad though. As for how many to take, that depends on how much you like to play the odds. 4 melta has a very good chance to blow up a tank. Less then that, it might live. More then that increases your odds.

Drop pods work best en mass. If you have one, it needs to drop first turn. Often, you will want odd numbers of pods to maximize the first turn impact. I will sometimes include a single pod in a list as a disruption unit, or 3 as part of a hybrid drop list. Ironclads and sternguards work very well for this role. So to answer your question: yes, it has to drop. As for it being better? Drop pods are high risk/high reward. Going full drop has the potential to be devastating, but also could serve up your army piecemeal into a meatgrinder.

CC ironclad is fine, he just would be better with a delivery system. And TFCs are often touted as one of the better units in the book. They do mean things to anything resembling light troops, can reinforce a bit of terrain, and have a few other nice tricks. All for a quite reasonable point cost.

ok thanks for the help could i have a full drop pod team? I could save 150 points on not taking razorbacks and take scouts and a pred? Im also not sure about suicide bombing with the sternguard so what else could i use to destroy any tanks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i agree with combis being too expensive for sternguard and i dont want to suicide anything at this point cost (except the cc dread). I also note the tac units having "sets" so will probably change them on the sarge. Thanks to you all.

If you stick with the razors, you have plenty of AV fire in the form of the devs, razors, and the ironclad. The melta in the tac squad is a nice little bonus. Frankly how many vehicles do you expect to see at 1,000 points?

Just because you can suicide drop sternguard does not mean that you have to. I actually prefer a safer flank drop, where then you work to roll up the side of an army, limiting what can get range to you.

If you want to go with pods, take three. Ironclad, sternguard, and a tac squad (preferably full 10 men) Keep the Lib, Devs and TFC. If you load up the tac squad with melta, that should give you enough AV fire. A 5 man scout squad in a LSS will help with objectives, and give you some late game mobility you loose when podding. You could run a minimal 5 man sniper scout squad if you are short points.

This is your basic hybrid drop list. You have a solid firebase with the range to support your drop, and a variety of units waiting in orbit to land where you need them.

At 1000 points you dont need thaaaat much unless you are for some reason running into a LOT of skew spam lists.

Frankly 1 unit of Devs for anti tank, 1 TFC or WW for anti cover based objective holders and 1 Storm guppy for anti air will usually cover most of the normal bases

Then you can add in other stuff to fix anything else you need within the group you play with or just add more troops.

I personally dont mind the las pas or TL las cannon razer just for the sit back behind terrain and obsec an objective while the tactical walk up on foot. otherwise the triple drop pod with 1 or two ironclad with double heavy flamers and a single pod with tacticals or sternguard to clean up is nice.

HQ - 95
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2, Storm Bolter and Force Axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 280
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Drop Pod 35
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and sarge w/ combi-melta & melta bombs 85
Razorback w/ tl autocannon 75

Elites - 345
5 Sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 120
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with Dual Heavy Flamer 155
Drop Pod 35
Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

Think that is 1000points exactly. 21 troops 1 tank/armoured support, 3 drop pods, a dread and T, and a whole lot of fire power

(another) question I have is what discipline should I choose on my libby and what powers should i aim for? (whats good/ whats not) thanks all


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on second calculation I think I have 30 points left over. what should I spend them on?

Looks good cept I would make 1 tac squad a combi flamer + flamer and the other a combi melta + melta so each has a specific purpose.

Cause what will happen is you will disembark out of the pod and either shoot a vehicle or a squad and one of the weapons will be useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You might also want to change the razorback for a rhino and increase the squad size to 10 men and give them a missile launcher

reason being, you can't fire anything out of the razorback, it has no fire points

a rhino is a lot cheaper and has 2 fire points, if it stays stationary you can fire the missile launcher out of it, if you are close enough to enemies you could fire the combi melta or meltagun (or flamer) out of it

so really you wouldn't lose any firepower doing that

consider putting the librarian with the devastators not the sternguard, the sternguard will probably sacrifice themselves and your warlord along with them

but the devastators can hide in ruins that are bolstered by the tech

HQ - 90
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2 and force axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 220
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and CC sarge w/ melta bombs 80
Drop Pod 35
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ heavy bolter and CC sarge w/ melta bombs 85
Rhino 35
5 Man Scouts w/Camo Cloaks and missile launcher 80

Elites - 345
5 Sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 120
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with CCW, Seismic Hammer and Dual Heavy Flamer 155
Drop Pod 35
Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

1000points phew! Added Camo Cloaked ML scouts for objective sitting and changed a tl assault cannon razor for a rhino + scouts. But

(another) question I have is what discipline should I choose on my libby and what powers should i aim for? (whats good/ whats not) remember that hes lvl 2 thanks all

Thanks for all the help everybody

If you are drop poding in with combo melta or flamers i would focus them one unit with combi melta and melta gun

another with flamer and combi flamer.

Helps focus there roles.

30 extra points nets you 3 homeing beacons which are always useful.

Otherwise Auspex on the Lib is always nice.

consider putting the librarian with the devastators not the sternguard, the sternguard will probably sacrifice themselves and your warlord along with them

but the devastators can hide in ruins that are bolstered by the tech

true that and good point with the tech marine too.

 Redluck78 wrote:
HQ - 90
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2 and force axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 220
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and CC sarge w/ melta bombs 80
Drop Pod 35
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ heavy bolter and CC sarge w/ melta bombs 85
Rhino 35
5 Man Scouts w/Camo Cloaks and missile launcher 80

Elites - 345
5 Sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 120
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with CCW, Seismic Hammer and Dual Heavy Flamer 155
Drop Pod 35
Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

1000points phew! Added Camo Cloaked ML scouts for objective sitting and changed a tl assault cannon razor for a rhino + scouts. But

(another) question I have is what discipline should I choose on my libby and what powers should i aim for? (whats good/ whats not) remember that hes lvl 2 thanks all

Thanks for all the help everybody

I would not spend the points on the sniper Scouts... they are going to disappoint you almost all the time. You would be much better suited using the points to fill out the Tactical Squad that lands turn 1. Also, you should use the remaining 10 points to give the Sternguard Sgt. a combi-melta too just to further guarantee that your turn 1 plan works. I would drop the melta bombs and heavy bolter from the Rhino Tac Squad because you'll be snap firing while moving, and pick up a plasma gun. I also recommend the chainfist on the Ironclad for the amazing armourbane rule.

HQ - 90
Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2 and force axe - 90 (Rides with Sternguard)

Troops - 220
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer and CC sarge w/ melta bombs 80
Drop Pod 35
5 Man Tactical Squad w/ plasma gun and CC sarge 85
Rhino 35
5 Man Scouts w/Camo Cloaks 65

Elites - 345
5 Sternguard w/ 5 combi-meltas and Chainsword Sargent 130
Drop Pod 35
Ironclad Dreadnaught with CCW, Seismic Hammer and Dual Heavy Flamer 155
Drop Pod 35
Fast Attack - 0

Heavy Support - 250
Thunderfire Cannon and Gunner 100
5 Devestators with 4 Lascannons 150

5 points remaining! Hmm I dont have a rulebook on me but if a chainfist is better than a seismic hammer than ill grab the fist. id really like to know what discipline should I choose on my libby and what powers should i aim for? (whats good/ whats not) remember that hes lvl 2. The scouts are for objective sitting

Try to land the Sternguard in cover perhaps and go for Shrouded for a 2+ cover? Invis is always awesome with a backup psychic shriek doing well enough on its own, you should probably go for Telepathy. Going for Levitate could be cool too because if you miss your target, you could get behind the vehicle that way... the libby is really just a versatile HQ that can help you out on a per-game basis.

Get an auspex to lower 1 cover. it can be VERY useful. epsecially for jinking things.

As for discipline there is not 1 table you want to go for at any one time but the default one for me is Telepethy. can be one of the most useful as Psychic shreks kill most things shrouding is useful and invisibility is broken. but then you can hit some of the useless ones like mental fortitude.

Biomancy isnt bad ether.

Thanks all. (hopefully) My final question is should I buy sniper rifles for the scouts or an auspex for libby (bearing in mind Sternguard ammo can ignore cover)?

Its not for the ignore cover bolter but the -1 to jinking skimmers when you are trying to melta it.

hmm true I might go rifles just because the models look so cool...

Your points value for 5 sternguard with 5 combi-meltas is incorrect. It's costs 120 for the base unit and 50 for the combi weapons.
Other than that, looks like a good list, with most bases covered.

 uk_crow wrote:
Your points value for 5 sternguard with 5 combi-meltas is incorrect. It's costs 120 for the base unit and 50 for the combi weapons.
Other than that, looks like a good list, with most bases covered.

Yeah, you are currently over by at least 25 points or so.. I would re-configure the list to look like this:

HQ
Librarian - level 2

Elites
Sternguard (5) - combi-melta x4, drop pod
Ironclad - ccw, hammer, heavy flamer x2, drop pod

Troops
Tactical Squad (10) - flamer, drop pod
Tactical Squad (5) - plasma, rhino

Heavy
Devastators (5) - lascannon x3
TFC


And I would play from the Sentinels of Terra supplement, taking advantage of "close range bolter drill" and take the relic "the bones of osrak" instead of mastery level 2 on the libby.

Ahh that sucks. Why is close range bolter drill so good? Does it work with overwatch and snap fires?

 Redluck78 wrote:
Ahh that sucks. Why is close range bolter drill so good? Does it work with overwatch and snap fires?

Its for all shooting with bolter type weapons so it effects snaps.

Suddenly those Bolter scouts are slightly more useful for no extra cost.

haha you bet. Wow that seem....overpowered

Hardly OP

it gives you like 2 extra hits at best

and REALLY helps out when you are wiffing like a wiffle ball bat.