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What makes me laugh, is that in Warmachine I only need one book to play... And still have a plethora of unit, Warcaster, Warjack, solo and Mercenary options.

What I find alarming is the precedent it sets. Why not put the basic LRBT into the IG book and have the other variants in an "Armoured Regiments" supplement? Sell the rules for the named characters in C:SM as DLC? They already decided to break up AM into separate books just to get what for other armies would comprise the base Codex, thus souring what could have been a really special release.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
What
makes me laugh, is that in Warmachine I only need one book to play... And still have a plethora of unit, Warcaster, Warjack, solo and Mercenary options.

Ditto for Bolt Action.

 zammerak wrote:
Playing devils advocate, I would rather have a game with loads of OPTIONS over a game that has 2 books or less and that's it... Looking at you Dreadfleet.

But is it really an option if most of them aren't worth taking? The illusion of choice is no choice at all.


I think for me the wealth of options is making me more conservative about what I buy. A codex's life span is entirely too short for the cost of the book. GW has suckered a lot of people into spending money on temporary codexes that expire quicker than bread.

I see you're new here. If you want to play Clan Raukaan allied with space wolves, you'll need 4 books. Codex: SM, clan raukaan supplement, codex: SW and SW supplement. Want to add a fortification to your list? You need another book for that. Want to add just one forge world model? You guessed it, another book. Why put all the rules in one place when you can charge someone $400 just for the rules for their desired list?

I dunno, the Ad Mech double codex seems extra egregious. If I was a parent to a potential gamer-kid I would swat that stuff out of their hand and tell them that it was a blatant shake-down.
I don't know who GW are after nowadays since it seems they are dead set on wringing the collector of any cash until they quit.

Not that I wanted to start an anti-GW screed but I have been watching for WHFB news (its own sad drama) and when I saw the second Ad-Mech codex I was like "Waah?"
That and a new Knights codex.
Really? Making hardbacks useless that fast is in the category of slash-burning-amazon-rain-forest wasteful.

GW has realized that there's one thing every player basically has to buy, even if they own 12 of every kit GW has ever made; rulebooks. That's also something that people generally tend to buy at full price as soon as they're released instead of waiting a couple months for ebay/facebook/swap shop deals. They will keep pumping out rulebooks that cost more and are spread out into more sources at a faster pace until their finances turn around. They don't realize that for every person buying these books, 2 people are quitting because they're tired of GWs pump and dump business strategy regarding rulebooks.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
^yeh I give up - there's at least a dozen there I didn't write in. It's like Black Adder re-writing the dictionary, there's so many.

Lol, putting that list together took me more than 40 minutes. And I left out Shield of Baal II, Legion of the Damned and (ouch!) Blood Angels.

I would have loved it if you'd noted the prices as well. I'd be really interested how much it currently costs to get a full set of rules for 40k

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
^yeh I give up - there's at least a dozen there I didn't write in. It's like Black Adder re-writing the dictionary, there's so many.

Lol, putting that list together took me more than 40 minutes. And I left out Shield of Baal II, Legion of the Damned and (ouch!) Blood Angels.

I would have loved it if you'd noted the prices as well. I'd be really interested how much it currently costs to get a full set of rules for 40k

I went on the GW store and added all the rule books, Codexes and campaign books to my cart, and this is the result. Bearing in mind that's without Dataslates, IA stuff, a couple of supplements that weren't in stock...

My goodness is that obscene. Well shoot, when I made my IG army as a side project to Warmachine/Hordes. I needed the IG Codex, a Forgeworld Book for my Chimeras, Codex Inquisition and the Main Rulebook... Just to field my army. Yea, it is partially my fault for running some of those things. But it is honestly dumb to have starting costs well in the hundreds just for rules.

Play Infinity. Free downloadable rules. GOOD rules to boot!

Yeah, this problem is just going to keep getting worse. And why shouldn't it? GW has seen that *enough* people will pay these prices. They're taking an army book concept that used to cost $35 three years ago and now making it cost double (the Adeptus Mechanicus army will be $70 to field the whole army). In addition to that, there are $40-50 books for armies ranging from ONE MODEL (Knights at $41) to redundant products (Clan Raukaan and Militarum Tempestus at $50) to armies of three of four units (Harlequin again at $50).

There is no guaranteed longevity to these products any more, it's $50 for one that can last from 1-4 years at maximum. There's barely any value to them either, they aren't playtested at all, so you're just paying for the art and pictures (which reports say the hardbacks cost GW a very small amount of money, so even with storage you're being charged a massive price).

The kicker is, most people aren't buying the books to just read them- they exist to play a game. If there were cheaper alternatives to playing the game, this wouldn't be an issue. But GW wants to dollar-and-tenner (since nickel and dime isn't anywhere near where it is!) you in every possible fashion so that you can have a standardized game.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
What makes me laugh, is that in Warmachine I only need one book to play... And still have a plethora of unit, Warcaster, Warjack, solo and Mercenary options.

Some companies do a good job, others don't.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
What makes me laugh, is that in Warmachine I only need one book to play... And still have a plethora of unit, Warcaster, Warjack, solo and Mercenary options.

Some companies do a good job, others don't.

Yea, it is wild how different from 3rd edition what the requirements just to play the game are now. I really don't agree with how short the life span of these books are now a days. One of the reasons I have drifted further and further away from the game. Shoot, some games I will happily drop $3-400 on an army I know I don't need and nit feel bad about it. But every time I buy a GW produced book I just feel upset at myself for even getting it.

Honestly after I took a lot of time off of 40k I was feeling good about my self but then i walked into the FLGS...big mistake. I was slapped by a massive new rule bookand at least 15 new books and I had no idea what to think. I wanted to just walk over to the players and question them about where 40k went. I considered dropping and selling everything that I had and moving on, probably in favor of another game thats got my eye but I've never tried (Hordes). But nobody at the FLGS plays WM or Hordes..i seen 2 guys one time but no regulars. So here I am stuck spending a buck ton to get back into a game that I'm not sure is still the same game I used to love playing.

 Drogga wrote:
Honestly after I took a lot of time off of 40k I was feeling good about my self but then i walked into the FLGS...big mistake. I was slapped by a massive new rule bookand at least 15 new books and I had no idea what to think. I wanted to just walk over to the players and question them about where 40k went. I considered dropping and selling everything that I had and moving on, probably in favor of another game thats got my eye but I've never tried (Hordes). But nobody at the FLGS plays WM or Hordes..i seen 2 guys one time but no regulars. So here I am stuck spending a buck ton to get back into a game that I'm not sure is still the same game I used to love playing.

What games do people play over there? Not 40k or WM/H?