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2015/05/06 00:06:43
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
timetowaste85 wrote: I like the rape analogy. But let's make it a teeny bit more accurate, shall we:
College girl goes to frat party yells "have at, boys" and rufies HERSELF, then gets upset when she wakes up with man-juice leaking out of every hole.
I mean, they should have worn condoms, clearly!
That's a bit more like what happened here.
Not really. To make your analogy more accurate you need to have the college girl also hire a couple Big Pipe Hitting Bastards to guard her (since these folks paid 50k for armed security). Then when these pipe hitting bastards beat the feth out of the would be rapists, you start to get the right analogy.
The 'draw your favorite sword wielding prophet' thing may have reeked of
And that may upset people. Maybe even correctly so. But regardless, it was within their rights to have the contest, even if the intent WAS to piss off radical islamists. No one forced the two crap bags to show up in body armor and with rifles and damned sure no one made them pull the trigger.
Things like Serrano's PissChrist (publicly funded in part), the Westboro fethers and stomping on the American flag piss me off. Yet I am able to maintain a bit of self control, recognize the gak bags doing these things are gak bags and I don't gun up and start capping them. I have participated in a couple Patriot Guard missions to thwart the Westboro gak bags, but did so well within the legal framework we all live under.
Was the contest provocative/antagonistic? Yep. Does that justify attempting mass murder? Heck no. Should the Feds clamp down of folks with antagonistic points of view and the intent and means to put out that point of view in a very public manner? NO. They should not.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/05/06 00:06:47
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
cincydooley wrote: Swedish metal is garbage. If I listened to that audio trash all the time I'd probably be an angry donkey-cave, too. It all makes sense.
Additionally, and I wasn't going to address it intitially, but I guess I will now - it's laughably arrogant when a condescending, Sam Harris guzzling atheist espouses the claim that, by simply being a Sam Harris guzzling atheist that they are intellectually superior and not a...what was it... "Sheep waiting to be brainwashed." Especially when they're prosthetizing, almost verbatim, the same tired "I'm an intellectually superior atheist" schtick that every other one does.
It's a pretty delightful irony, really.
I also thought it was particularly cute how you selectively ignored every historical instance of mass murderers acting on behalf of personal power as opposed to on behalf of a higher power. A lovely bit of selective editing, indeed.
I am a particular fan of him calling Muslims mass-murdering pedophiles, only to get offended because I might be calling his favorite Swedish metal band "stupid".
I don't understand, when did I ever call muslims mass-murdering pedophlies?
I think you are trying to lie about me to slander me?
If you accuse me of having said something, quote me where I said it.
Did I say such things? Or did in fact you call muslims mass-murdering pedophiles?
And most importantly, where did I get offended by someone calling my favourite Swedish metal band stupid? And did you ever say such a thing?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/06 00:10:17
2015/05/06 00:14:04
Subject: Re:Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Look, nobody is expecting everyone to adopt Muslim beliefs. Just to show a little respect for them... because the current lack of respect is a very large part of the problem that muslim countries have with the west.
Instead of saying 'Can't draw Mohammed? Huh, that's a bit odd...' we jump straight to 'You can't tell me what to do! Not being allowed to draw someone is a stupid rule!' and then we do everything we can to ridicule it.
Expecting people to show a modicum of respect for others' beliefs isn't forcing people to adopt those beliefs. Just to not be donkey-caves.
If nobody is expecting everyone to adpot to muslim beliefs, the world would be a few artists richer, don't you think? The lack of respect is a very large part of the problem that I have with muslim countries. So muslim countries can arrest, torture and execute minorities and who ever they wish, gays, heathens what ever. And now you argument for muslim countries having a problem with lack of respect due to some cartoons? Your morals are off the chart dude!
You expect me to show respect for mass-murdering pedophiles? Ok, if you show respect to my political belief and my genocidal ethnic cleansing political tyrant idol, I'll be happy to show respect to any and all authoritive figures you or anyone else have.
Do we have a deal?
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/05/06 00:24:58
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
People are actually arguing that the group that drew ugly pictures of a religious figure had it coming to them....on US soil...right? That we should watch what we do or say in fear of provoking lurking murders in our country? Instead of being concerned about the lurking murders.
In fact, no.
Despite the fervent attempts to claim we're pulling the "she asked for it" card, none of that is going on.
2015/05/06 00:32:22
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
But you are pulling the this-is-senseless/worthless/only provocation/bad idea card?
I saw alot of upright honest people participating in that event, people with valid viewpoints. People who others would characterize as idiots, donkey-caves and douchebags because they dare criticise and provoce authorities in the face of threat.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/06 00:35:02
2015/05/06 00:41:25
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Baxx wrote: People who others would characterize as idiots, donkey-caves and douchebags because they dare criticise and provoce authorities in the face of threat.
That doesn't sound very sensible at all, could you point us to where people are doing this so that we may mock them?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/05/06 00:41:44
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
insaniak wrote: Look, nobody is expecting everyone to adopt Muslim beliefs. Just to show a little respect for them... because the current lack of respect is a very large part of the problem that muslim countries have with the west.
That is a joke, right?
Muslims countries have very, very different problems from each other. But the problems are basically never “the West do caricature of Mohammad”, or “the West has no respect for Islam”. Most of the time the problems are linked to people living inside the country, or from economical and political relationships with other Western or non-Western countries that have nothing to do with religion or respect.
insaniak wrote: Instead of saying 'Can't draw Mohammed? Huh, that's a bit odd...' we jump straight to 'You can't tell me what to do! Not being allowed to draw someone is a stupid rule!' and then we do everything we can to ridicule it.
Rather “So, you want to kill people for the silly crime of drawing Mohammad ? feth you, I will do it anyway.”
The first caricatures were not motivated by infringing this religious rule, and yet still created massive troubles. The latter were an answer to this violent reaction.
cincydooley wrote: People draw Muhammad because they want to specifically to agitate those that believe Muhammad should not be drawn.
insaniak wrote: Or the way my desire to not annoy my Christian friends 'forces' me to not use the Lord's name as a swear word around them.
Goddamnit!
But seriously, see above. You should really reconsider who you want to be nice to. People like Marjane Satrapi and Nebil Karoui, or people like their opponents?
timetowaste85 wrote: I like the rape analogy. But let's make it a teeny bit more accurate, shall we:
College girl goes to frat party yells "have at, boys" and rufies HERSELF, then gets upset when she wakes up with man-juice leaking out of every hole.
I mean, they should have worn condoms, clearly!
That's a bit more like what happened here.
That was pretty disgusting.
Frazzled wrote: Mass murderer? You should read the Quran some time. If you consider any "conqueror" type a mass murderer, then that fits. If you don't, it don't.
That is not from the Quran, but from the Sīra. Know your stuff.
And no, not all conqueror decide to kill every adult male member of a defeated tribe, and to reduce the rest into slavery.
cincydooley wrote: Yes, you enlightened Europeans. Please, teach us more.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/05/06 00:48:43
Subject: Re:Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
insaniak wrote: 'If you deliberately try to provoke a reaction from religious extremists, it's possible that you'll get a reaction from religious extremists?'
Is violence a proportionate reaction, or a disproportionate reaction?
Baxx wrote: People who others would characterize as idiots, donkey-caves and douchebags because they dare criticise and provoce authorities in the face of threat.
That doesn't sound very sensible at all, could you point us to where people are doing this so that we may mock them?
Sure. Here:
cincydooley wrote: People draw Muhammad because they want to specifically to agitate those that believe Muhammad should not be drawn.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/06 00:52:25
2015/05/06 01:06:00
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Baxx wrote: People who others would characterize as idiots, donkey-caves and douchebags because they dare criticise and provoce authorities in the face of threat.
That doesn't sound very sensible at all, could you point us to where people are doing this so that we may mock them?
Sure. Here:
cincydooley wrote: People draw Muhammad because they want to specifically to agitate those that believe Muhammad should not be drawn.
Where does cincy call anyone an idiot, donkey-cave, or douchebag because they dare criticise and provoke authorities in the face of threat? You REALLY need to stop making up arguments to argue against, we've called you out loads of times already.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/05/06 01:14:12
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Well I constantly see unclear statements that to draw muhammed is senseless, it is of no value, it is a bad idea and so forth. And I'm seeing descriptions like idiots, donkey-caves and douchbags all over.
I've asked multiple times for direct quotes, but all I get is dubious.
2015/05/06 01:15:10
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Baxx wrote: Well I constantly see unclear statements that to draw muhammed is senseless, it is of no value, it is a bad idea and so forth. And I'm seeing descriptions like idiots, donkey-caves and douchbags all over.
I've asked multiple times for direct quotes, but all I get is dubious.
No, you don't. The direct quotes have been provided.
You continue to ignore them.
2015/05/06 01:16:03
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Baxx wrote: People who others would characterize as idiots, donkey-caves and douchebags because they dare criticise and provoce authorities in the face of threat.
That doesn't sound very sensible at all, could you point us to where people are doing this so that we may mock them?
Sure. Here:
cincydooley wrote: People draw Muhammad because they want to specifically to agitate those that believe Muhammad should not be drawn.
Where does cincy call anyone an idiot, donkey-cave, or douchebag because they dare criticise and provoke authorities in the face of threat? You REALLY need to stop making up arguments to argue against, we've called you out loads of times already.
cincydooley wrote: Yes. They were terrorists. And the event organizers are donkey-caves. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
literally the 2nd quote...
For some reason some people think its more of a problem that people would draw a cartoon, with full knowledge that it is provocative, then that people are so easily provoked as to kill other human beings over a cartoon.
Again,
the problem is not that people drew these cartoons knowing that a small # of people find the cartoons provocative, the problem is that a small # of people are able to be provoked to mass murder simply by cartoons.
Is our culture about protecting the things like freedom of speech,
or accommodating a small # of people, and being "nice" to them where the only thing between them killing, and not killing, is a cartoon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/06 01:20:18
2015/05/06 01:22:50
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
There's so much text flying around, I have trouble keeping up. But thank you. One such example of people being described as donkey-caves, and the apparant reason in my eyes is because they dare to criticise in the face of threat of murder and terror.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/06 01:23:10
2015/05/06 01:39:01
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
I, d-usa, of Oklahoma City at the IP address on file somewhere within the deep hidden servers of Dakka-Dakka, hereby declare that this event was organized by a group that I consider to be a giant big veined penis, at a location directly chosen to add insult to the basic premise of the event, which is to stand up to the Muslims running the government of the United States by drawing offensive cartoons because they have freedom of speech as evidenced by the direct quotes of the person that was in charge of the events which I observed with my own eyes and heard with my own ears and the video of which I posted in this thread, a person that I consider queen of the donkey caves involved in organizing this.
There is your direct quote. You will notice a lack of any attempt to forbit her from being stupid. You will notice a lack of any justification for attacking her. She is just an idiot, that's my opinion.
That and that metal sucks and that blasphemous Swedish metal isn't any sort of freedom fighting and that it is just a fashionable way to make impressionable youths pay for t-shirts with weird writing on it that nobody can read.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/06 01:39:41
2015/05/06 01:40:35
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
For some reason some people think its more of a problem that people would draw a cartoon, with full knowledge that it is provocative, then that people are so easily provoked as to kill other human beings over a cartoon.
No, they don't.
2015/05/06 01:43:34
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
For some reason some people think its more of a problem that people would draw a cartoon, with full knowledge that it is provocative, then that people are so easily provoked as to kill other human beings over a cartoon.
whembly wrote: I'm mean... there was an attempt of MASS F'N MURDER, on US soil, over a F'N cartoon.
Indeed. And why did that happen?
Because there was an attempt to PROVOKE an attempt of mass f'n murder, on US soil, over a F'N cartoon.
It succeeded. Score 1 point for Free Speech.
You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You are stating that the mass murder happened because the event organizers had the event, which is just simply not true. It happened because some people cannot handle a cartoon like adults.
2015/05/06 01:50:30
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You are stating that the mass murder happened because the event organizers had the event, which is just simply not true. It happened because some people cannot handle a cartoon like adults.
Actually, the mass murder did not happen at all, because the attempting perps got made room temp before they could succeed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/06 01:50:46
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/05/06 01:54:08
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
easysauce wrote: You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You are stating that the mass murder happened because the event organizers had the event, which is just simply not true. It happened because some people cannot handle a cartoon like adults.
easysauce wrote: You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You know that it's possible to think that one person's actions are wrong while simultaneously thinking that someone else's actions are wrong, right?
You are stating that the mass murder happened because the event organizers had the event, which is just simply not true.
So... if there hadn't been a Mohammed-themed 'art' contest being run, which Mohammed-themed art contest would these two guys have shown up at?
Well, it seems at least one of these wondrously considerate and accommodating citizens tried to go overseas to wage Jihad, and since they were both radicalized and considered themselves good Mujahadin the odds of them just chilling out and being law abiding polite citizens of the US is pretty slim. They eventually would have found another excuse to gun up and claim their place in paradise, either CONUS or someplace else. Seeing as they were clearly tactically 'challenged' from a skills perspective, it was not likely to end up well for them wherever they decided to attempt mass slaughter of nonbelievers. They used this event and venue as an excuse to get in on all those martyr benefits.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/05/06 02:07:48
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Evidently the attackers lacked the agency to make their own decisions, and could only respond to this provocation by violence...
I never said that.
In the wake of Charlie Hebdo, though, it would be the epitome of naive to organise an event like this and not expect that a violent response was likely. And given the level of security on hand, that's exactly what the organisers expected.
2015/05/06 02:07:56
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Well, it seems at least one of these wondrously considerate and accommodating citizens tried to go overseas to wage Jihad, and since they were both radicalized and considered themselves good Mujahadin the odds of them just chilling out and being law abiding polite citizens of the US is pretty slim. They eventually would have found another excuse to gun up and claim their place in paradise, either CONUS or someplace else. Seeing as they were clearly tactically 'challenged' from a skills perspective, it was not likely to end up well for them wherever they decided to attempt mass slaughter of nonbelievers. They used this event and venue as an excuse to get in on all those martyr benefits.
Sure.
That doesn't change the (apparently deliberately) provocative nature of the event in question.
Left to its own devices, a man-eating tiger is going to eat someone. Deliberately walking into his den wearing 15kg of raw meat strapped to your legs is still going to provoke him... the fact that he would have eaten someone else if you hadn't come along doesn't change that.
2015/05/06 02:13:21
Subject: Re:Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Jebus this thread took off to a episode of Romper Room
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2015/05/06 02:13:55
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You are stating that the mass murder happened because the event organizers had the event, which is just simply not true. It happened because some people cannot handle a cartoon like adults.
Actually, the mass murder did not happen at all, because the attempting perps got made room temp before they could succeed.
easysauce wrote: You are the one stating that its the provokers fault and focusing on them instead of the terrorists.
You know that it's possible to think that one person's actions are wrong while simultaneously thinking that someone else's actions are wrong, right?
right, and if you were listening, you would know that my point is that the organizers were not in the wrong to hold their event, right? right?
I will say it again for you,
The problem is NOT that they put on an even that they knew would offend some people, the problem IS that some people are so offended by a cartoon that they are willing to kill people over it.
2015/05/06 02:14:06
Subject: Shots fired outside Dallas conference on Prophet cartoons
Well, it seems at least one of these wondrously considerate and accommodating citizens tried to go overseas to wage Jihad, and since they were both radicalized and considered themselves good Mujahadin the odds of them just chilling out and being law abiding polite citizens of the US is pretty slim. They eventually would have found another excuse to gun up and claim their place in paradise, either CONUS or someplace else. Seeing as they were clearly tactically 'challenged' from a skills perspective, it was not likely to end up well for them wherever they decided to attempt mass slaughter of nonbelievers. They used this event and venue as an excuse to get in on all those martyr benefits.
Sure.
That doesn't change the (apparently deliberately) provocative nature of the event in question.
Left to its own devices, a man-eating tiger is going to eat someone. Deliberately walking into his den wearing 15kg of raw meat strapped to your legs is still going to provoke him... the fact that he would have eaten someone else if you hadn't come along doesn't change that.
And?
They tried here. And got capped without doing too much damage in the process. And the crap bags staging the event got to exercise their free speech.
Sounds like a good thing.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
.
