Over to you Frazz... (US Gov't to take over Texas?)

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**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
If you say so.

But I can tell you despite having a bunch of backwoods hillfolk here in NC, we don't have deployments of the State Guard to "observe the military maneuvers and facilitate communication between the military and Governor's office" when Robin Sage exercises go off.

Having the commander of the state guard informed of the exercises is a good thing and not "backwoods hillfolk." Now maybe you don't mind US army units wandering around the cul de sac, but here we tend to notice things like that.

EDIT for spelling without a license...

**CptJake**

Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
If you say so.

But I can tell you despite having a bunch of backwoods hillfolk here in NC, we don't have deployments of the State Guard to "observe the military maneuvers and facilitate communication between the military and Governor's office" when Robin Sage exercises go off.

Having the commander of the state guard informed of the exercises is a good think and not "backwoods hillfolk." Now maybe you don't mind US army unites wandering around the cul de sac, but here we tend to notice things like that.

Which, as pointed out, should not be an issue as DoD has coordinated with all the relevant folks.

**Frazzled**

I would think they normally do that.

In Kanluwen's defense, Abbott is doing a little grandstanding to appease the aluminum hat brigade.

**CptJake**

They do normally do the coordination.

Honestly, if the coordination had not happened, Gov Abbot would have no clue the exercise would use parts of TX, if he even knew it was occurring at all.

**agnosto**

CptJake wrote:
They do normally do the coordination.

Honestly, if the coordination had not happened, Gov Abbot would have no clue the exercise would use parts of TX, if he even knew it was occurring at all.

Bingo. Also, DoD Policy requires state reps and senators be made aware if it is a Stage III exercise which explains how our favorite Canadian, Cruz got involved.

**Frazzled**

I think Cruz is Canada's version of a Vengeance Weapon on the US for all the moose jokes. Come on even his name (Cruz) is like an Austin Powers villain.

**Psienesis**

Why does the governor of Texas have a private military?

**Frazzled**

Psienesis wrote:
Why does the governor of Texas have a private military?

You don't think all those Californians are kept safely contained in the California Quarantine Zone on their own do you?

And they're a public military. Our private military is the CAF.

**agnosto**

Frazzled wrote:
I think Cruz is Canada's version of a Vengeance Weapon on the US for all the moose jokes. Come on even his name (Cruz) is like an Austin Powers villain.

Who does #2, I mean Cruz, work for!!!

**Jihadin**

Frazzled wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Why does the governor of Texas have a private military?

You don't think all those Californians are kept safely contained in the California Quarantine Zone on their own do you?

And they're a public military. Our private military is the CAF.

Eh? Confederate Armed Forces?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I think Cruz is Canada's version of a Vengeance Weapon on the US for all the moose jokes. Come on even his name (Cruz) is like an Austin Powers villain.

Who does #2, I mean Cruz, work for!!!

You didn't get the memo? Outlining the Chain of Command?!?!

#1

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

Close: Confederate Air Force

Your pic: what has been seen cannot be unseen.

**LordofHats**

It's moments like this that I am reminded how much I am disappointed in the American capacity for rational decision making.

**Jihadin**

LordofHats wrote:
It's moments like this that I am reminded how much I am disappointed in the American capacity for rational decision making.

Where you been? Under a rock? Far off castle? Share the goods brother!!

Rational Decision Making was burned out of me by my 5th year in the Army

Being my 5th and 6th year in service I fully understood what "The Army Way" was all about

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
Meh...

The media (NPR, Independent, etc) is over reacting to this imo...

Abbott ordered the State Guard (not the National Guard) to observe the military manuevers and facilitate direct communication between the military and the Governor's office.

That's not a bad idea folks.

The Republican party would probably want to tell the Republican party that.

Former Texas Republican Representative Todd Smith;
"As a 16 year Republican member of the Texas House and a patriotic AMERICAN, I am horrified that I have to choose between the possibility that my Governor actually believes this stuff and the possibility that my Governor doesn’t have the backbone to stand up to those who do. I’m not sure which is worse."

The idea that the Governor was merely asking for there to be communication between the US troops commanding the operation and local Texas authorities is laughable backtracking. As has already been pointed out, as if that wasn’t happening already. And even if that communication needed expansion or improvement, that’s the kind of thing that goes on all the time without any need for media announcement.

No, the Governor made his statement in the media because was trying to pander to the crazies. Which is something politicians do, but this time it caught national media attention because this group of crazies is really an extraordinary kind of stupid. And so now the Governor is trying to backpedal fast as he can.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

sebster wrote:
whembly wrote:
Meh...

The media (NPR, Independent, etc) is over reacting to this imo...

Abbott ordered the State Guard (not the National Guard) to observe the military manuevers and facilitate direct communication between the military and the Governor's office.

That's not a bad idea folks.

The Republican party would probably want to tell the Republican party that.

Former Texas Republican Representative Todd Smith;
"As a 16 year Republican member of the Texas House and a patriotic AMERICAN, I am horrified that I have to choose between the possibility that my Governor actually believes this stuff and the possibility that my Governor doesn’t have the backbone to stand up to those who do. I’m not sure which is worse."

The idea that the Governor was merely asking for there to be communication between the US troops commanding the operation and local Texas authorities is laughable backtracking. As has already been pointed out, as if that wasn’t happening already. And even if that communication needed expansion or improvement, that’s the kind of thing that goes on all the time without any need for media announcement.

No, the Governor made his statement in the media because was trying to pander to the crazies. Which is something politicians do, but this time it caught national media attention because this group of crazies is really an extraordinary kind of stupid. And so now the Governor is trying to backpedal fast as he can.

Seb, are you seriously suggesting that somebody's trying to make political capital out of this because of upcoming presidential primaries? You're far too cynical

**djones520**

The whole hub bub over this is just ridiculous. And that is all I'm going to say on this.

**Asherian Command**

djones520 wrote:
The whole hub bub over this is just ridiculous. And that is all I'm going to say on this.

Agreed. I think it is pretty dumb and irrelevant to alot of issues right now.

**whembly**

What this guy said:
https://journal.ijreview.com/2015/05/244102-jade-helm-special-forces-obama-conspiracy/

Operation Jade Helm Is Nothing To Be Concerned About. But Americans’ Distrust in Obama Is.

Liberals are tut-tutting at Texas Governor Greg Abbott’s order to the Texas State Military Reserve to observe the “Jade Helm” special operations training exercise going on in several southwestern states.

The same people who think Bu$Hitlerburton is responsible for the widespread impotence among progressive men cite this as evidence that conservatives are crazy paranoids obsessed with Obama-related conspiracy theories.

But while the concern over the exercise is misplaced, the fact that huge numbers of Americans do not trust this administration is entirely the liberals’ own damn fault.

First, let me put your mind at ease about Jade Helm – unless I’m an unknowing pawn of a giant conspiracy, there’s absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

Jade Helm is part of the regular SOF (special operations forces) training cycle to hone our operators’ skills in executing missions in inhabited areas.

People have the notion that our snake-eaters are always out in some jungle or desert, but a huge portion of the world is urban. This exercise helps them learn to better work in populated environments.

Most of our military trains out of sight on massive bases, but the SOF has trained in civilian areas for decades – near Ft. Bragg, civilians in rural areas often participate as role-players.

Sadly, on one occasion, a couple Green Berets mistook a sheriff’s deputy for a role player and tried to relieve him of his gun. He was not a role player. This tragedy shows why Governor Abbott is perfectly sensible to have his state militia observe and liaison.

Besides a couple wars, I deployed on civilian support operations like the Los Angeles riots and the Northridge earthquake response, and I commanded a reinforced battalion during the 2007 San Diego fires. I’m always amazed and amused by people babbling about such nonsense as FEMA camps and demonstrating their utter lack of familiarity with either military capabilities or basic logistics.

Do you have any idea how much stuff and how many troops it would take to lock down a significant number of Americans – especially Americans exercising the right to keep and bear arms? When tyranny happens here, it won’t be delivered by soldiers but the slow process of frog boiling that we see underway today as liberals slowly chip away at our rights.

The concern of millions of Americans over an innocuous exercise reflects not on them but upon our President*. It’s on him that people absolutely believe that he would, if he could, use the military to strip them of their liberties. And it’s not irrational in light of his actions.

Barack Obama has chosen to use executive orders to ignore the will of the American people’s elected representatives in Congress. His IRS targets conservative Americans. The misnamed Department of Justice lets his allies skate, like the tax dodging Al Sharpton – hell, like pretty much everybody on MSNBC. Is there anyone who think Hillary Clinton won’t get away with brazenly breaking government records and influence peddling laws? Yet somehow, the DoJ found the time and resources to persecute conservative Dinesh D’Souza for a paltry $20,000 campaign contribution to a failed Senate candidate, an act that shouldn’t even be against the law in the first place.

To the extent Americans distrust our federal government, it is absolutely the fault of Barack Obama and a mainstream media that willingly enables his gross violations of our laws, norms and customs. Obama gets no benefit of the doubt, and he deserves none. When we see him shaking-hands with dictators like Raul Castro while refusing to confront the socialist thugs in Venezuela, you get the sense that if he could send armed men to impose his will upon normal Americans he would do so in a heartbeat.

Sadly for him, our military and law-enforcement personnel are sworn to defend and obey the Constitution, not the guy who temporarily occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. So if you see some operators out there on Jade Helm, wave at them, thank them, then tell them they need to be more covert because if Joe Civilian can find them, so can the enemy.

Got a kick outta that last sentence...

*que that "Thanks Obama!" memes...

**CptJake**

I did surveillance/counter-surveillance training in a decent sized urban area (and in several small towns within a hundred or so miles of that urban area). Part of the course was NOT getting 'made' by the subject of the surveillance, which in turn meant not sticking out to the locals and LEOs.

The training WAS coordinated with the LEOs and other agencies. In fact we had some detectives from some of the LE agencies in the course with us.

**reds8n**

That "article" is possibly the funniest thing I've ever read.

The best bit is where he cites a poll on Fox news to back up his claim that it's Obama's/liberals' fault that he isn't trusted.

It's nothing at all to do with the best part of 10 years of secret muslim/socialist/secretly gay/ etc etc crap that's been pushed non stop by the American right.

Nosiree.

**whembly**

^see?

\I rest my case your honor\

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
What this guy said:

...the widespread impotence among progressive men...

Is this really what you take for your serious news?

Anyhow, aside from the cheap "hurr dem other side is poopoo" stuff, the central premise of the piece is idiotic. This episode has nothing to do with general distrust in the president, this is about a collection of fringe idiots with a very silly conspiracy theory. No president can ever stop a collection of fringe idiots from hating him, or from making up some stupid conspiracy. The 9/11 Truther stuff wasn't due to a general distrust in the president, it was because in any society there are some total fething loons.

The only issue of any relevance is whether a political party is willing to feed the loons that line up more or less on their side of the political football field. And as we've seen from this governor's reaction, one side of politics is increasingly willing to pander to the silliest of nonsense.

And it doesn't take too much thought to start realising exactly how that kind of pandering can steadily lead to one side of politics beginning to 'distrust' the other side.

**whembly**

sebster wrote:
whembly wrote:
What this guy said:

...the widespread impotence among progressive men...

Is this really what you take for your serious news?

He's a crass, ex-military (now lawyer) op-ed writer.

Anyhow, aside from the cheap "hurr dem other side is poopoo" stuff, the central premise of the piece is idiotic. This episode has nothing to do with general distrust in the president, this is about a collection of fringe idiots with a very silly conspiracy theory. No president can ever stop a collection of fringe idiots from hating him, or from making up some stupid conspiracy. The 9/11 Truther stuff wasn't due to a general distrust in the president, it was because in any society there are some total fething loons.

Imma going to stop you there. The 9/11 Truther were LARGELY formed because of the distrust of the Bush Administrations.

You will always have the looney toons, in all walks of life. They're largely ignored.

However, in this case, the fething 9/11 truther brigade had LARGE play here in the states... unfortunately. Mainly because of the Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS).

My next point may enlighten you as to why this happens.

The only issue of any relevance is whether a political party is willing to feed the loons that line up more or less on their side of the political football field. And as we've seen from this governor's reaction, one side of politics is increasingly willing to pander to the silliest of nonsense.

And it doesn't take too much thought to start realising exactly how that kind of pandering can steadily lead to one side of politics beginning to 'distrust' the other side.

We, as a nation, have always held a skeptical eyes towards our President and the Government in general.

While it's arguably stronger in the redstate... the nation as a whole exhibit this to varying degrees. Just look at what's happening in places like Ferguson, Detriot, NYC and now Baltimore (Democrat enclaves for years). There's not a lot of trust between the citizens and the political class.

So, about Obama... when more than half of the population don't believe he's trustworthy, it'll only exacerbate these things, like in Texas.

So, circling back to this Texan Governor... while I believe these people are overreacting, the Governor having his peeps (Texas Guard) do their thing isn't unreasonable, imo.

**d-usa**

A 18 month old study about trust done on the weekend after a ton of stories about how some folks lost their health insurance?

Pretty weak, but not really surprising coming from someone who complains about people not trusting Obama after spending the last few years trying to convince us not to trust Obama and drowning himself in "don't trust Obama" media.

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
A 18 month old study about trust done on the weekend after a ton of stories about how some folks lost their health insurance?

Pretty weak, but not really surprising coming from someone who complains about people not trusting Obama after spending the last few years trying to convince us not to trust Obama and drowning himself in "don't trust Obama" media.

Uh uh...

It isn't like the "untrustiness" changed all that much during his presidency either:

Here's another take:

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
He's a crass, ex-military (now lawyer) op-ed writer.

And you're reading him, and posting him here as something you agree with, despite it being an article that's basically cheap shots and very silly analysis.

You are what you read mate. My sister drifted from a kind of centre left outlook, with a tendency towards some odd conspiracy theories, to a dogmatic hard right over about four years. It started with an entirely understandable dislike of our state Labor government, and so she started preferring news sources that repeated that dislike back to her. But then she read those sources on other points and started to believe those points, and then she went looking for sources that reinforced her even stronger right wing views. That process repeated itself until, well, now she's real hard line, and sometimes even gets that Anne Coulter style 'talking and not blinking' thing. I try not to talk politics with her anymore, not because we disagree (we've never agreed and that's half the fun), but because her arguments aren't interesting anymore, because she isn't really thinking about this stuff anymore. She just accepts the stuff from her side, and rejects the stuff from the other side.

I don't want to sound partonising, but I've kind of seen the same process during your time on dakka. You and I have never seen eye to eye on politics, but I've always enjoyed reading your posts, because it was clear you were thinking about this stuff. But I've seen a trend to post articles where the only merit is that they're from 'your side', and to reject arguments without any substance, just with 'that's what your side would say' kind of sentiment.

Imma going to stop you there. The 9/11 Truther were LARGELY formed because of the distrust of the Bush Administrations.

They sure were - that's my point. And do you think they formed out of a rational, sensible review of Bush and his policies, or because the far left just loves believing the worst possible nonsense about any right wing politician?

And once you realise that people who believed the anti-Bush conspiracy nonsense were driven by nothing that Bush actually did, it should be obvious how little Obama's policies or his ability to keep the trust of the population in general had to do with these Jade Helm lunatics. And which point it should be obvious how ridiculous that article is.

We, as a nation, have always held a skeptical eyes towards our President and the Government in general.

Actually, the US has always been kind of strong in its 'respect the office' sentiment. That's declined massively in the last couple of generations, but even now the US may have skepticism, but it's nothing like the open contempt for politicians you see elsewhere. Here in Oz abusing our politicians is great sport. And I don't mean US style abuse where people write critical op-eds, I mean when the PM goes on a meet and greet through the day they'll be constantly greeted with calling them dickheads. And they don't call them dickheads because they voted for the other side, but just because showing contempt for our politicians is great sport. The last PM toured a school and a couple of kids threw fruit at her, just because it was funny.

So, circling back to this Texan Governor... while I believe these people are overreacting, the Governor having his peeps (Texas Guard) do their thing isn't unreasonable, imo.

No, it's fething nuts. You can dislike, or even loathe a president, but thinking the president may be using training exercises as a cover for a federal takeover is flying rodent gak lunacy. A governor who entertains that is playing up for the crazies, and there's no two ways about it.

**whembly**

sebster wrote:

I don't want to sound partonising, but I've kind of seen the same process during your time on dakka. You and I have never seen eye to eye on politics, but I've always enjoyed reading your posts, because it was clear you were thinking about this stuff. But I've seen a trend to post articles where the only merit is that they're from 'your side', and to reject arguments without any substance, just with 'that's what your side would say' kind of sentiment.

That's the by-product of not seeing "eye to eye" my friend.

Just like you reading (maybe hypothetically) the TPM, The Atlantic, and Media Matters and agreeing with them... its they fit more in your world view.

You have a tendency to say "that's crazy pants, and here's why". That's one of the things I respect about you... even that I'll probably disagree with you most of the time.

I've always owned up to the fact that I don't like Obama and Democrats like Clinton/Reid/Pelosi ilk... based largely on their policies.

Imma going to stop you there. The 9/11 Truther were LARGELY formed because of the distrust of the Bush Administrations.

They sure were - that's my point. And do you think they formed out of a rational, sensible review of Bush and his policies, or because the far left just loves believing the worst possible nonsense about any right wing politician?

And once you realise that people who believed the anti-Bush conspiracy nonsense were driven by nothing that Bush actually did, it should be obvious how little Obama's policies or his ability to keep the trust of the population in general had to do with these Jade Helm lunatics. And which point it should be obvious how ridiculous that article is.

I totally buy that the non-Republicans of all stripes loved to believe the worst possible nonsense about any right wing politician. Which, if you're honest, you'll fall into that trap.

Perfect example: Todd Atkin. Everyone else couldn't wait to ask other Republicans what they think of what Akin said, in the attempt to infer guilt by association of the same party.

Conversely, when a Democrat does something bad... you'd often have to play that "Name that Party™" game and dig deeper to find out that politician's party is the Democrat.

We, as a nation, have always held a skeptical eyes towards our President and the Government in general.

Actually, the US has always been kind of strong in its 'respect the office' sentiment. That's declined massively in the last couple of generations, but even now the US may have skepticism, but it's nothing like the open contempt for politicians you see elsewhere. Here in Oz abusing our politicians is great sport. And I don't mean US style abuse where people write critical op-eds, I mean when the PM goes on a meet and greet through the day they'll be constantly greeted with calling them dickheads. And they don't call them dickheads because they voted for the other side, but just because showing contempt for our politicians is great sport. The last PM toured a school and a couple of kids threw fruit at her, just because it was funny.

I disagree. Traditionally, we've always been skeptical of our government... over the last few decades, it's trending not so much that we trust it more, but it's trending that we want more from our government.

So, circling back to this Texan Governor... while I believe these people are overreacting, the Governor having his peeps (Texas Guard) do their thing isn't unreasonable, imo.

No, it's fething nuts. You can dislike, or even loathe a president, but thinking the president may be using training exercises as a cover for a federal takeover is flying rodent gak lunacy. A governor who entertains that is playing up for the crazies, and there's no two ways about it.

K. Governor should tell the to STFU. Cool beans seb.

**aw_man**

Its all for the sake of controversy and its really getting ridiculous. Texas is a great state, but their ruling class, and the cowboy culture is just becoming a giant derp-fest.

The people of Texas need to wake up and grow up, or deal with this consequences of pulling a Joe Biden in everything you do or say.

Essentially the ruling whackjobs in that state are just taking the easy way out instead of actually doing their jobs instead of robbing everyone.

-Texas is the textbook example of a WELFARE STATE. All of the major employers and corporations based in that state rely on federal contracts directly, or on grants or federal law/mandates for the majority of their revenue; Dell, Halliburton, Texas Instruments, and at least a couple dozen other multi billion dollar companies.

-Even after the heinous tragedy of Texas City, this state still has a ban against local fire codes. WTF? ITS THE 21ST CENTURY. As an engineer, I find this particularly idiotic.

-Threatened to secede around in the early 2000's. At least in jest. SERIOUSLY? WTF?

-Like most of the states in the south, African Americans and Latin Americans are treated like second class citizens.

Again I am sorry to any Texans who read this, but seriously, this is the truth and its gotta stop. Denial doesn't help any of us.

Most politicians do this, but especially in the past 15 years, Texas has been screwing us over with these shenanigans. I think Texans need to band together and put a temporary moratorium on this kind of behavior.

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
That's the by-product of not seeing "eye to eye" my friend.

Just like you reading (maybe hypothetically) the TPM, The Atlantic, and Media Matters and agreeing with them... its they fit more in your world view.

I've read a handful of op-eds from The Atlantic, and none of those other sites. I actually don't really read specific newspapers, but these days I read mostly economics and financial blogs, the authors of which are all over the map, politically.

You have a tendency to say "that's crazy pants, and here's why". That's one of the things I respect about you... even that I'll probably disagree with you most of the time.

I've always owned up to the fact that I don't like Obama and Democrats like Clinton/Reid/Pelosi ilk... based largely on their policies.

Sure, nothing wrong with having a point of view and an opinion, and coming at an issue from that position. The problem is when you let your point decide what arguments and facts you accept and which you reject.

Quick rule of thumb - if you find yourself nodding when you're reading something, work twice as hard at figuring out if its true or not. And on the flip side, if you find yourself angry at a piece and wanting to reject it, double check every reason you've come up with for rejecting the article.

I totally buy that the non-Republicans of all stripes loved to believe the worst possible nonsense about any right wing politician. Which, if you're honest, you'll fall into that trap.

I've certainly been guilty of doing it. And I will almost certainly do it again. I just hope that I don't do it much, and that I've got the honesty to accept it when other people call me on it.

K. Governor should tell the to STFU. Cool beans seb.

The Governor should come out and state that there is no place for ridiculous conspiracy nonsense in modern discourse. And he should name names, like Alex Jones, and then call on all politicians and leading figures to similarly condemn anyone who deals in silly fantasy over basic political reality.

That's not going to happen of course, and it'd be unfair to condemn for failing to do what every politician and political commentator should be doing. So instead the governor's back flip on the issue, even if he tried to pretend he wasn't, is probably as good as its going to get. So now this just quietly goes away, and we wait for the next politician to curry favour with some conspiracy nutters. I'm going to confidently predict which side of politics is going to do it next.

**insaniak**

So as someone with only a passing familiarity with the intricacies of US militia organisations, am I understanding correctly that the Texas State Guard is essentially a part-time Army Reserve organisation?

And they're being sent out to 'keep an eye' on a bunch of Navy Seals and Green Berets?

If that's the case, and this is really an attempt to take over Texas... just what exactly does anyone expect the State Guard to be able to actually do about it?