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Was just looking over my Cypher data slate and saw that upto four of cypher's chosen can take powerfists for 5pts per model. Now this is obviously a misprint as power weapons and LCs are still 15pts, and I would never play it as 5pts. But RAW, that's what it says. Has there been a 7th ed faq on this? Or will downloading it again change this (I bought and downloaded it shortly after it first came out)?

Fresh download of cypher still shows them at 5 points per. I dont see anything in the chaos marine FAQ that says the codex price of 25 points has changed.

RAI and HIWPI seems to be this is a typo. They dropped the 2 in 25 on accident and you should proboboly pay the larger cost.

RAW. You have two different and valid datasheets with the faction of chaos marines. Technically these are different units with the same name and technically you can use either in, for example, a CAD of chaos marines. Not just in the cypher formation.

Oh hey go look at that.

Seems pretty clear to me. His chosen are technically different from codex chaos marine chosen as they have alternate special rules (ATSKNF) and don't have the same options (cannot take Chaos God marks).

Pretty egregious typo? Maybe. Probably. Still what it says on the dataslate that's totally valid? Yep.

While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

GW rarely does FAQs. When they do, they only touch like 10% of the problems in the game

The fact that it hasn't been corrected yet doesn't mean anything.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

But they don't pay a premium. They pay what every other model in the game pays for lightning claws and power weapons. They pay what a normal chosen squads pays for them.

If someone ran chosen with Cypher, I'd allow it. I'm getting sick of gw not hiring proper editors, writers, play testers. You want 5pt power firsts, you have my blessing.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

GW rarely does FAQs. When they do, they only touch like 10% of the problems in the game

The fact that it hasn't been corrected yet doesn't mean anything.

However they tend to update digital editions much more often than they get FaQs out, especially if they do not have printed counterparts:
-Adepta Sororitas
-Legion of the Damned
-Inquisition
-Dataslates
etc

 BlackTalos wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

GW rarely does FAQs. When they do, they only touch like 10% of the problems in the game

The fact that it hasn't been corrected yet doesn't mean anything.

However they tend to update digital editions much more often than they get FaQs out, especially if they do not have printed counterparts:
-Adepta Sororitas
-Legion of the Damned
-Inquisition
-Dataslates
etc

I have yet to see any dataslates updated. Cypher's Chosen is just a dataslate.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

GW rarely does FAQs. When they do, they only touch like 10% of the problems in the game

The fact that it hasn't been corrected yet doesn't mean anything.

However they tend to update digital editions much more often than they get FaQs out, especially if they do not have printed counterparts:
-Adepta Sororitas
-Legion of the Damned
-Inquisition
-Dataslates
etc

I have yet to see any dataslates updated. Cypher's Chosen is just a dataslate.

Maybe Dataslates are not part of the "Updates" then, because Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition have had 3-4 updates each, already.
Although it tends to be very minimal differences, usually correcting 1 Typo at a time.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
While it mqy have been a typo, they have had many many months to correct it. At this point I wound say the rule stands as written. Cypher's chosen pay premiums for pw qn lcs but get discounted fists.

Which is fine as the fist prevents bonus attacks.

GW rarely does FAQs. When they do, they only touch like 10% of the problems in the game

The fact that it hasn't been corrected yet doesn't mean anything.

However they tend to update digital editions much more often than they get FaQs out, especially if they do not have printed counterparts:
-Adepta Sororitas
-Legion of the Damned
-Inquisition
-Dataslates
etc

I have yet to see any dataslates updated. Cypher's Chosen is just a dataslate.

Be'lakor got an update after 7th to bring his psychic powers in line with the new telepathy table. I'm pretty sure I saw the Helbrute dataslate get an update at some point, too.

Edit: looks like I misremembered; Be'lakor didn't get an update. Never mind, then.

And lets be honest, wouldn't we all rather play against 5ppm power fists than new eldar.

FratHammer wrote:
And lets be honest, wouldn't we all rather play against 5ppm power fists than new eldar.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. 23 point models with powerfists where every last guy had Infiltrate? That's actually pretty nasty. Would run you 750 points for 30 of them (the champions still pay regular price), and another 190 for Cypher. If they manage to get in close combat, which shouldn't be all that difficult due to the infiltrating en masse, they're going to do some pretty significant damage.

I suppose this gives us a surrogate way to test out of cheapter terminators would be more viable, as they'd essentially be just that once in close combat.

Interestingly, Battlescibe has them at 25 points. Though I know this if FAR from having any real bearing on rules.

 SRSFACE wrote:

FratHammer wrote:
And lets be honest, wouldn't we all rather play against 5ppm power fists than new eldar.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. 23 point models with powerfists where every last guy had Infiltrate? That's actually pretty nasty. Would run you 750 points for 30 of them (the champions still pay regular price), and another 190 for Cypher. If they manage to get in close combat, which shouldn't be all that difficult due to the infiltrating en masse, they're going to do some pretty significant damage.

I suppose this gives us a surrogate way to test out of cheapter terminators would be more viable, as they'd essentially be just that once in close combat.

Good point. But remember only 4 can take them (plus a 25pt one on the champ). So if you didn't take the pf on the champ you'd be paying 200pts for a 10 man unit with veteran stats, atsknf, infiltrate, the ability to use cyphers ld and 4 powerfists. One of those squads with shrouded and h&r from cypher (plus his 2 plasma pistol ccw attacks). 790pts all told. Not too shabby at all really. Put the 6 non pf models at the front to take the wounds. Combine with other fast assault units like spawn, hounds, Abby/kharn in a dradclaw with unit, slanneshi soul grinder, maulerfiends etc and you're laughing!
Hmmm, that's making me think of a list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only for tournament/competitive play of course. Pulling it in a friendly would be a douche move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cypher

3 10 man units of chosen with 4 pf in each

Khan
5 CSM
Dread claw

10 cultists

Chaos Lord
Mok, jugger, aobf, sigil

Maulerfiend

Maulerfiend

Maulerfiend

Arch demagogue with cov of the entry
4 disciples

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 lots of 3 spawn

2k

Sounds like a fun list. I guess playing a swarm army changes my opinions of pw fists

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602168.page

Check this out. It looks like it's been fixed in some editions. I don't have a tablet, so I can't confirm this. Either way, the general consensus is that it's a typo. I don't think I'd want to play with anyone who insisted that I gave them an 80pt handicap because someone didn't press the "2" key hard enough.

Haha it turns out I've seen this before and then forgotten about it!

If Eldar players were able to enjoy the typo of the serpent shield being ridiculous range let CSM have this one thing.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
If Eldar players were able to enjoy the typo of the serpent shield being ridiculous range let CSM have this one thing.

You are delusional if you still believe 60" range was a typo

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Lord Commissar wrote:
If Eldar players were able to enjoy the typo of the serpent shield being ridiculous range let CSM have this one thing.

You are delusional if you still believe 60" range was a typo

Doesn't matter if it was or not, it was poor form intentional or not.

FratHammer wrote:
And lets be honest, wouldn't we all rather play against 5ppm power fists than new eldar.

Not at all. Further, the "Broken Eldar" equivalent of the powerfist comes on a model(Striking scorpion exarch only) that is limited to 1 per unit, is T3, S6, attacking on initiative. I don't think the lack of insta-death invoking strength, lower toughness, and 1 model per unit cap is worth the better initiative tradeoff. And that model costs Eldar 57 points, plus the unit tax of 17 points a model for the rest of his S3/T3 unit, compared to Chosen...really?

Chosen are 18 ppm(instead of 17 ppm) for +1S +1T -1I +1A, and THEN they have access for each model to have the following options: power weapons, lightning claws, power fists, flamers, combi-weapons, plasma guns, meltaguns, icons of chaos, marks of chaos, and their leader can take gifts and special weapons on TOP of all that. No, I don't think I'd rather fight the Chosen rather than the eldar equivalent. Comparably, the eldar seem to be pushovers.

As for not wanting to play against new eldar, especially if it's because of the D, you should really read about that here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646186.page

Oh betrayer I was referring to your codex as a whole buddy. Not one model. The whole thing.

FratHammer wrote:
Oh betrayer I was referring to your codex as a whole buddy. Not one model. The whole thing.

Yeah, and I just used your specific reference point to debunk your whole argument, pal. The entire thing. If you say an entire codex is broken and OP, and I demonstrate to you that a section of it is not, specifically the section that you used as an example, that makes your entire argument worthless. You main point was fail, and the D-weapon crying is silly because of the link I provided. So your whole philosophy and argument was bandwagon hysterics.

EDIT: And it's Betray. The verb. Not betrayer, a noun.

I've accepted that a few people are utterly blind to the fact that the top codex in the game having all it's units buffed, on top of the scatter bikes, d-weapon wraithguard, wraithknights d and gargantuan upgrades and the formation buffs, makes the eldar codex OP. To the extent that apart from one moment of weakness, I've given up on all the eldar threads. One thing I did note before I stopped, was that eldar apologists kept complaining about the amount of criticism the buffs and general dex recieved.
Since then, I've noted that as soon as the word 'Eldar' crops up, even in passing, some apologists home in on it like an SNP voter homing in on a unionist to preach with a venom filled tone.
On threads that aren't specifically about eldar can we stop debating about how broken or unbroken eldar are please?

I've personally given up on the debate. If people can't see that a 27pt scatter bike that can be spammed in a troop slot, that a unit of d weapon armed, highly durable infantry and the wraithknight becoming pretty immune to most of its previous weaknesses (poison - guargantuan/ tarpitting - stomps/ other MCs - D), then I have more chance of debating the existance of god with a westborough baptist. It is just a complete waste of time.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I've accepted that a few people are utterly blind to the fact that the top codex in the game having all it's units buffed, on top of the scatter bikes, d-weapon wraithguard, wraithknights d and gargantuan upgrades and the formation buffs, makes the eldar codex OP. To the extent that apart from one moment of weakness, I've given up on all the eldar threads. One thing I did note before I stopped, was that eldar apologists kept complaining about the amount of criticism the buffs and general dex recieved.
Since then, I've noted that as soon as the word 'Eldar' crops up, even in passing, some apologists home in on it like an SNP voter homing in on a unionist to preach with a venom filled tone.
On threads that aren't specifically about eldar can we stop debating about how broken or unbroken eldar are please?

I've personally given up on the debate. If people can't see that a 27pt scatter bike that can be spammed in a troop slot, that a unit of d weapon armed, highly durable infantry and the wraithknight becoming pretty immune to most of its previous weaknesses (poison - guargantuan/ tarpitting - stomps/ other MCs - D), then I have more chance of debating the existance of god with a westborough baptist. It is just a complete waste of time.

You certainly don't sound like you've given up on the argument. You sound mad, and are the only one going into detail about the entirety of the new Eldar codex. The only other mentionings of it were in comparison with the direct topic of this thread, and the Eldar's version of powerfist troopers. The fact that mad guys want to make post after post, and paragraph after paragraph about the OTHER guy is telling. Yeah, you're right. It must be eldar appologists that have the agenda. Certainly not you. [/sarcasm]

Actually Betrayer, you brought up the D and I brought up the dex as a whole. So... No, he didn't. But he is right, this isn't useful to the OP.

So OP, run them as you see fit buddy. I'll play you.

To Betrayer, I'll play Eldar every day of the week, doesn't mean the dex isn't op. And as I've told you in other threads, just because a specific unit or option from a specific codex is more op than your op thing does not make your thing less op. Also, you keep losing that as a whole, your codex is broken. Everything is very powerful. If all courses were treated the same way we would all have a fair fun game. Since they aren't, pointing out the obvious problem, aka your codex, is fair and helps us lower our toxicity levels about it. You and people like you sound like holocaust deniers.

Thank you FratHammer.

I think you will find Betrayer, that this is a thread about powerfists on chosen, I have not gone out of my way to view any Eldar threads, quite the opposite. You have come to this thread to seek out those who disagree with your viewpoint to launch venom at them, much like an extreme evangelical going out of their way to hunt down atheist forums to abuse them for their views, then to get defensive when confronted about it. There was no need, FratHammer made a throwaway comment about the fact he/she would rather face pf chosen than the Eldar dex, which is anyones right. Until your response, FratHammer had not gone into details or specifics about his/her dislike of the new dex, it could have been for all we knew that he/she didn't like the look of Eldar models. You came on and derailed another thread with nonsence that many of us are completely bored with now and are trying to stay away from.

That being said, if I or anybody else ever expresses the opinion that we don't like the new Eldar dex (for whatever reason), I don't expect that we should be attacked for it and abused by yourself and other Eldar apologists. I'm frankly getting quite sick of the insults hurled at myself and others, and surprised that the mods were (/are - I don't know if they still are) letting it slide for so long. That is why I have stayed away from such threads. As I said before, there is no point in debating with those who hold extreme views that they refuse to change, it is a complete waste of time. And before you accuse me of such - check my thread history, you will find I was very open to debate when it came to a list I proposed with Jetbikes and IKs.

Except FratHammer didn't say that he would rather face Chosen over Newdar - he insinuated that everybody would.

And even then, all Betray (not Betrayer) did was compare a single Chosen with PF to the only similar model in the Eldar codex. He didn't come in here saying "Waah! Baby doesn't like Newdar. Lern 2 play noob." He said "I disagree [that Newdar are worse to play against]. For X points Eldar get a single model in a squad with a PF that strikes at Initiative. For less points, Chosen get Y".

It was at this point the two of them started bickering.

As it is - apparently yes - Cypher's Chosen can take Power Fists for 5 points until such a time GW changes it.

Battle scribe... Lol