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Hi all, I just got this account.
I play as eldar/dark eldar and have only recently started to play them, although I did play as them before this new codex hit briefly. Anyway ive played 40k for a few years with necrons, who I use very well. However I love the eldar, but the person I play against (my brother, I never play in stores) always beats me with his imperial armies, he uses things such as baneblades, thunderwolves with shields and hammers, thunderfire cannons and hamminators, contemptor dreds , deredeo dreds and....draigo. Now I don't know if it's because I'm fairly new to eldar and I have not adjusted to their squishiness, or because my grasp of tactics is poor, but I simply can't beat him. He tables me in 2 turns every game before my reserves even come in. Any help on what units to take against his hard hitting/hard to kill armies would be appreciated because I'm getting very frustrated.

Just saying, I don't use wraithknights, only one jetbike squad, wraithguard come in in squads of 5 and no more, and I can inlybhave 2 webway portals. These are my moral rules as they are friendly games...but being an athlete I can't stand to lose so my lists always must have some danger. Thanks all


Automatically Appended Next Post:

olemissfootball wrote:
Hi all, I just got this account.
I play as eldar/dark eldar and have only recently started to play them, although I did play as them before this new codex hit briefly. Anyway ive played 40k for a few years with necrons, who I use very well. However I love the eldar, but the person I play against (my brother, I never play in stores) always beats me with his imperial armies, he uses things such as baneblades, thunderwolves with shields and hammers, thunderfire cannons and hamminators, contemptor dreds , deredeo dreds and psychic buffs. Now I don't know if it's because I'm fairly new to eldar and I have not adjusted to their squishiness, or because my grasp of tactics is poor, but I simply can't beat him. He tables me in 2 turns every game before my reserves even come in. Any help on what units to take against his hard hitting/hard to kill armies would be appreciated because I'm getting very frustrated.

Just saying, I don't use wraithknights, only one jetbike squad, wraithguard come in in squads of 5 and no more, and I can inlybhave 2 webway portals. We dont use flyers either. These are my moral rules as they are friendly games...but being an athlete I can't stand to lose so my lists always must have some danger. Thanks all

Now I'm no eldar player so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think at least part of your problem might be from playing Necrons before.
You've gone from one of the toughest to one of the squishiest, and it sounds like your bro hasn't changed his army. So a good deal of your issues are probably coming from the fact that you're having to learn a new army while he's still in his comfort zone.

Sure eldar hit like a truck, but they gotta stay alive long enough to hit. Look into investing in transports, taking tanks, things like that. Eldar have some of the best vehicles in the game (imo) so take advantage of that.

It might be a good idea to post what models you have at your disposal as well as what armies your bro typically runs (I realize you already said a few tthings, but try to be more specific).

When I see that he uses baneblades and the like, my first thought is fire dragons. They will absolutely RUIN anything that's a vehicle. Also push your advantage in the psychic phase, eldar are one of the strongest in that area.

Thanks for your reply man, I think what you say has merit, I am probably too reckless with my troops..I have no transports but one and that is a wave serpent I use exclusively with wraith guard. The thing is he hits so hard, 2 thunderfire cannons and 2 masters of the ordinance every turn with rampaging thunderwolves and deepstriking hamminators make a real mess of my guardians and aspect warriors.

There are a series of things you could try, money and models permitting. You could use three Falcons and cloud strike right into his army. Being transported could be an aspect host, including a unit of Fire Dragons and whatever else you think would work.

If he's deep striking into your line, maybe don't have a line. You're Eldar so you can zip around really quickly.

There are lots of things I think you could do but just ensure you can eliminate the key threats turns one or two. I think if he's using Baneblades you are justified to use a Wraithknight. Are you using enough LOS blocking scenery?

If you're foot slogging against that, then that's one of your issues. He's clearly built a list to munch the incredibly durable necrons. Which means it'll make light work of Eldar. So, speed is your best friend. And eldar have that everywhere. The issue with out foot troops is ranged weapons. They're really really poor as far as threat zone is concerned. So, wave serpents are a must. They're also incredibly durable. Aside from that, scatter and shuriken bikes are amongst some of the best troop choices in the game with a 48"/36" threat range respectively. They also have the ability to move within range, open fire, and then hopefully hop a decent 2D6 into cover or out of line of sight.

Bike seers are very very handy. Especially with guide, and even more so if you pull powers like doom and fortune. They really are some of the most powerful psykers in the game and I don't think you can go wrong with their disciplines.

Wraithguard are very good, but need speed. So the options are loading them into serpents, or taking the wraith host formation for battlefocus. Spiritseers ate key if you're taking cannons. Anything he's within 18" of the guard can re roll to hit rolls if a 1. In the formation, that changes to pure re roll to hit. On that, the D-scythes will delete his Baneblade in seconds. As soon as they're in range, hit him with all 5 flamers and watch as the hull points start stacking up, along with 5 penetrating hits.

I know you don't have a wraithknight.... But you're really shooting yourself in the foot there. He's taking super heavies, so why wouldn't you take one? They're not as tough as the hype is making out, and his shield bearing thunderwolves can still remove it quite easily, but you at least give yourself a chance against his dreads and such. Dual cannons and a scatter laser or two work nicely and should solve some problems. The sword and shield with 2 shoulder weapons is also very good gaining an invulnerable and being not that much different in combat than an imperial knight. But if you'd rather not take either, the cannon and shield with two shoulder weapons is still very very good. Take two star cannons for 4 s6 ap2 shots and 3 s6 ap2 blasts. Then say goodbye to terminators.

Firedragons do the same as the Wraithguard, but around 50-100 points cheaper. They're not as durable though in my eyes.

Spiders are a good cheap TEQ killer. Wounding on 2's and fishing for 6's for ap2. A squad or two of those, along with a squad if fire dragons makes you an aspect shrine. Taking that formation grants you +1 BS. So your spiders and dragons are hitting on 2's. And as good as dragons are and dropping tanks, they're pretty good at terminators too. Ideally you want to be moving, shooting and then battlefocus backwards or completely out the way. Increasing his charge range always helps, and with a lucky over watch or two he may even end up failing.

Hope this all helps.

All of the things you listed I think would be countered fairly well with mounting up. Its the same tactic I use with my tau honestly, my troops are squishy but hit hard. Make him use up those shots on the transports instead of the guys inside.

With deepstriking/fast units transports still do the trick, because both thunderwolves and hammernators rely on assault to deal damage. Wait till he gets close, unload everything, light him up, then use battle focus and your vehicles flat out moves to make his charges next turn difficult. Both Hammernators and thunderwolves are pretty expensive, I would gladly risk a unit or two of guardians to make sure they go down.

I like these ideas, especially the bs 5 spiders and dragons, also that cloud strike squadron is bad news. I've always gone for OBJ secured with my guardians (generally run 2 units of 40 with maxed lance platforms and warlocks and farserrs joined). However, do you guys suggest the warhost detachment to buff my units, rather than have OBJ secured? It sounds like I need to take advantage of my speed more.

he uses things such as baneblades, thunderwolves with shields and hammers, thunderfire cannons and hamminators, contemptor dreds , deredeo dreds and....draigo.

Well, seems that your opponent knows what he's doing.
Eldar is not an army for beginner. It has a rather flat learning curve.
I'd know how to deal with this army.

The only thing objective secured is good on is our jetbikes. They're fast enough to make use of it. Guardians are too squishy to hole objectives and aren't fast enough compared to the other option.

The warhost is restricting. But it does have benefits. However you don't need a warhost to make use of formations. Squads of 40 seems risky to me. You'd be better off with 4 squads of 20. A squad of 40 is a single charge for him. 2 squads of 20 means he can either charge one, and get shot by the other, or disordered charge and gain no bonuses. But if you wanted to stick to your CAD, break them down to 4 squads, throw serpents in there, even if they're not transporting they're still amazing durable gunships, then you can add formations to the CAD.

A point to note, the BS increase effects transports taken in that formation too. So firedrsgons with dedicated wave serpents make the serpents BS5.

Another thing eldar are very good at is volume of fire. Force him to make more saves, and the probability of him failing more is obviously increased.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

he uses things such as baneblades, thunderwolves with shields and hammers, thunderfire cannons and hamminators, contemptor dreds , deredeo dreds and....draigo.

Well, seems that your opponent knows what he's doing.
Eldar is not an army for beginner. It has a rather flat learning curve.
I'd know how to deal with this army.

What a useful comment..... Or not.

If you know how, why not share it with him. That's why he's here?

If you know how, why not share it with him. That's why he's here?

Right. Very busy these days.

I'd consider a combination of Serpents and Jetbikes.
Firedragons can be used against heavy armor and heavily armored units.
Guardians with shuricats and Jetbikers shuricannons can also deal with heavily armored units.
I'd ignore the TFC until you can get a good shooting angle against it. Jetbikes could do this.
You need to deal with TWC asap. Shoot them from fare when they approach and dismount your Serpent units when they are in rapid fire range.
I guess that Draigo and the Hammernators gate around.
This will give you one round to deal with them before they can charge.
Rapid fire with shuricats kills them.

Summing up, I'd try to keep the enemy at arm's length and try shoot them down.

I will try all the things said here, definitely should make more use of serpents and jetbikes it seems. Also is illic and 10 rangers worth it? I forgot to mention he uses a ministorum priest with his hammernators which make them crazy hard to kill because of the re-rollable saves, so could the snipers reliably take the priest out before I hit the terminators with a bunch of bladestorm shots? For the thunderwolves....I've tried long range but they never seem to die with their 3+ invulnerable save, so maybe 20 kabalite warriors deep striking and rapid firing mass poison shots could kill them early on? something I thought of just now.

Units with good armor or inv. saves go usually down in a hail of (rapid) fire.
I'd drop the idea about Rangers. Too less impact and with a fast moving army you don't want a static unit.
In this case, the enemy will move towards this unit (just from gaming experience)
but generally you want him to move where you want him to move.

Aye. If no rangers, should I avoid dark reapers too? I'll build my list around hard hitting aspect warriors, lots of deep striking and fast moving rapid firing infantry in transports. From the good advice I've been given, this sounds like the best philosophy to build a list around.

olemissfootball wrote:
These are my moral rules as they are friendly games.

This is very commendable.

However, if your brother is using, quote, 'baneblades, thunderwolves with shields and hammers, thunderfire cannons and hamminators, contemptor dreds , deredeo dreds and....draigo' then he ain't playing by those same rules

You can afford to up the power level of your army by a fair margin and not hit the cheese limit. Take more vehicles, of all types, and you will start to see things swing your way.

olemissfootball wrote:
Aye. If no rangers, should I avoid dark reapers too? I'll build my list around hard hitting aspect warriors, lots of deep striking and fast moving rapid firing infantry in transports. From the good advice I've been given, this sounds like the best philosophy to build a list around.

Similar with Dark Reapers.
Their AP3 weapons are not enough against 3+ inv saves or 2+ armor saves.

Thanks. I will use more vehicles for sure, and use dragons and d scythes to quickly remove his baneblade, and harrass his wolves with non scattering deep striking volume of shots. My lists will have a bit more bite to em without becoming mental.

 wuestenfux wrote:

If you know how, why not share it with him. That's why he's here?

Right. Very busy these days.

I'd consider a combination of Serpents and Jetbikes.
Firedragons can be used against heavy armor and heavily armored units.
Guardians with shuricats and Jetbikers shuricannons can also deal with heavily armored units.
I'd ignore the TFC until you can get a good shooting angle against it. Jetbikes could do this.
You need to deal with TWC asap. Shoot them from fare when they approach and dismount your Serpent units when they are in rapid fire range.
I guess that Draigo and the Hammernators gate around.
This will give you one round to deal with them before they can charge.
Rapid fire with shuricats kills them.

Summing up, I'd try to keep the enemy at arm's length and try shoot them down.

Spot on advice.

Think you just need more games.

Currently, eldar are the top of the heap and quite easy to master as they do everything better than the others for cheaper.

 koooaei wrote:
Think you just need more games.

Currently, eldar are the top of the heap and quite easy to master as they do everything better than the others for cheaper.

This is most definitely not true. Top of the heap agreed, but not easy to master at all. Especially if you're used to the durability of Necrons.

Eldar are very much a glass cannon across the board with the exception of a very small handful of units. They fall over very easily and people struggle with that kind of vulnerability. Yes they hit hard. They hit very hard. But mostly they die quickly too. Mastering the perfect shooting hit and run isn't easy. But when you get there, you'll obliterate world's.

Easy to master, but only as long you take certain types of units. Footdar is still very difficult as you expose yourself to weaknesses which can be exploited pretty easily by the opponent. Eldar play is only "easy" when you have access to fast moving and/or vehicle units, otherwise you are stuck with less resilience than other armies - and when you apply automatically the tactics you used with Necrons, it doesn't end well.