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I was reading the hole section from page 24 - 28 about the hole psychic phase over and over to see if this works and I think it might but not sure till it is clarified I guess but anyway.

first lets look at manifesting psychic powers the only restrictions in question are no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per psychic phase and to manifest a psychic power you will need to declare a target. (if the power in question requires a target).

Now I can clearly see that Blessing Malediction can be used on models in combat and outside combat.
Now interestingly Conjuration can be used wile locked in combat but you would summon outside combat and act as if the model is deep striking normally because it doesn't mention anything regarding locked in combat.
Now Witchfire is a odd one I think they really need to change the order of how they place this section because it looks confusing at first but as it go's let me copy what it saids

Witchfire powers are shooting attacks. Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attack's and many have profiles similar to ranged weapons. Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the target unit (or target point) and cannot be locked in combat if he wishes to manifest a witchfire power. Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described on page 158, or it is a template weapon, which hit automatically. psykers can make snap shots (pg 32) in the psychic phase with witchfire powers in the same way as with other shooting weapons. Saves can be taken against Wounds from witchfire in the same way as for any other shooting attack, and hits are allocated to the closest target models to the psyker.

Unlike firing a shooting weapon though, a psyker can manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase (assuming he has enough Warp Charge) and each can target a different unit if you so choose. Manifesting witchfire powers does not prevent the Psyker (or his unit) from firing weapons in the following shooting phase, nor does it prevent the psyker's unit from running, turbo-boosting or moving flat out. A psyker who manifests a witchfire power can target a different unit with his other ranged weapons in the shooting phase Witchfire powers cannot be used to make overwatch attacks.

now this part interest's me at the bottom the most and will declare if what he is saying to being true I would guess.

There are several different sub-types of witchfire: each applying slightly different targeting restrictions. If the witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it. If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that sub-type.

Now judging by how I can see it the part at the bottom seems to be informing us that the wording under Witchfire section is if the power does not have a subtype just like other rules in the book so thease are genetic guidelines on how you would deal with this if it ever cropped up use the following rules and apply it to the game. Now looking at the sub types it seems like some of thease can infact be used in combat so lets review them shale we.

Beam from what I read from this power you can manifest it wile in combat Because in manifestation there is no rule to whether you can or cant manifest in combat but it must not pass units locked in combat so in most cases this would only be useable if a enemy force left a gap open for you to shoot outwards sounds like a odd and confusing sort of split fire mechanic because of the way it is preformed you can only charge units that you shot in the shooting phase but this is somewhat different it shoots a different unit when you are already locked in combat now until I can confirm this as legal I will let the community decide this.

Focussed witchfire clearly states in this one it follows the part under Witchfire but its odd because its the only sub-type that mentions this wile the others do not so clearly it cant be used in combat

Nova subtype this one is very confusing judging by how the targeting works for this one it can be manifested in combat and used in combat because of how it is worded if this is the case all those Grey knights will be loving there nova power a lot more I am assuming by the wording where it said is treated like a shooting attack is referring to use the rules of wound allocation and targeting but not follow the way shooting cant be used in cc because of the way the nova power targeting rules apply.


Now I would humbly accept powers like these in the sub-types to be used in my games because it makes the psyker phase more interesting and some powers more useful like nova powers with there horrible range it does feel like it was intended to be used this way because if I look at other material like films for instance lord of the rings Gandalf's light power seems to be a sort of nova and he use's it only in cc when he is surrounded by his foes or in video games like world of Warcraft frost nova.

Feel free to let your mind speak but I must ask for people to keep flaming to a low.

Ow, my eyes. Please try to use paragraphs. So what you're asking is... can some subtypes of ranged psychic powers be used while locked in combat? If Nova powers are still Witchfires, absolutely not. In the quote you provided, it's clearly stated that if a witchfire power lacks a subtype or is simply listed as a generic psychic shooting attack, the preceding Witchfire rules are used.

You just can't do this.

 Owain wrote:
Ow, my eyes. Please try to use paragraphs. So what you're asking is... can some subtypes of ranged psychic powers be used while locked in combat? If Nova powers are still Witchfires, absolutely not. In the quote you provided, it's clearly stated that if a witchfire power lacks a subtype or is simply listed as a generic psychic shooting attack, the preceding Witchfire rules are used.

You just can't do this.

I cant make paragraphs for the italic parts because that's information taken from the rule book but sorry about my personal wording I am not good at that sort of stuff.

that's odd because in this part

There are several different sub-types of witchfire: each applying slightly different targeting restrictions. If the witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it. If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that sub-type.

Implying that we use the rules set in the subtype rather then the parts under the paragraph oh this is all so confusing GW really need to simplify there wording but this confuses me father because in the nova section it contradicts all the rules in the witchfire section.

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including flyers and flying monstrous creatures) within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on. Otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapon. Only one unit that is within the power's maximum range can attempt to Deny the Witch (pg 25).

It also use's the word "Like" rather then "an" when referring to shooting attack and ranged weapon that is one of two things I guess a typo or is intended because it has a ranged profile for the allocation of wound and other rules but removing the restrictions on what shooting restricts because this rule allows it or something maybe I am thinking too much into this or something.

Witchfire powers are shooting attacks. Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attack's and many have profiles similar to ranged weapons. Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the target unit (or target point) and cannot be locked in combat

Answered there mate. If it is a witchfire, you may not use it locked in combat.

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including flyers and flying monstrous creatures) within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat,

This refers to the target unit. Eg. the unit is automatically targeted even though they are locked in combat.

Ofcorse its a witchfire but its a nova sub-type and the last bit under the witchfire clearly states if it has the a subtype use the rules for that if it was a conjunction of both rules it could create as they say a double negative.

As there are no restriction to manifesting any power in combat when manifesting it sounds legal but you could be right too as I said GW really do make some stuff worded odd...

The second part is correct


I played a test game on my own and if this is correct Nova powers have become very useful and powerful also it has a sort of this feels right kind of feeling ill have to play test it some more.

You cannot manifest a witchfire in close combat

That is unambiguous

Nova can affect units in close combat, but cannot be cast while the psyker is themselves IN close combat.

Then explain how in your personal experience would make nova useful I can see the practicality of it being used after deepstrike kind of but judging by how it would be employed in a battle.

Because if it cant be used in combat it would make nova powers almost completely useless in a practical means,

WHAT?! Novas are insanely useful.

Quite simply, deepstrike terminators/ gate of infinity anyone into position, and fry everyone around you.

Cleansing flame is really powerful and doesn't need to be used in CC. It destroys any light infantry in 9".

The rule is clear, you may not use witchfires in CC, it is a witchfire.
If you are out of CC, you may use it, and it will hit EVERYONE in 9", fliers/invisible/locked in CC units

Kaligoth wrote:
Then explain how in your personal experience would make nova useful I can see the practicality of it being used after deepstrike kind of but judging by how it would be employed in a battle.

Because if it cant be used in combat it would make nova powers almost completely useless in a practical means,

1) I dont need to explain how to make it "useful", I was pointing out the rules are unambigupous. That is a statement of fact, not one of utility
2) Cleansing flame is the single best power in Santic. Every game I have it I use it to great affect, either from initial DS to using it if I also get gate. Its mind bogglingly simple to use, and fries light (4+ sv, non necron) infantry as well as light transports

intresting I may have to look at this and give it some testing myself with my harlequins damn it looks like it will hurt a lot being the fact its concussive with a possibility of 12 hits

I agree with nosferatu that Cleansing Flame is an awesome power (maybe not the BEST in Sanctic....)

In one game against Pod BA, I had two units of squadded Purifiers all clumped up in a ruin. I got my Nightfight cover save (3+) against all his melta/plasma, and then proceeded to cast 3 Flames. They all hit roughly the same targets (because dropped down waaaaay too close to me), and I managed to outright kill 3/8 5-man squads, with two more dying to shooting. He had about 9 of his 40 models left, and Dreadknights finished those off easily.
Best Cleansing Flame ever, even against 3+ saves.

I think its the best, as its my most reliable offence. I dontevenm use purifiers (all GKT, all the time ) just have to hope my libby gets it.

My best one was one single casting having First to the fray on my warlord, so I went for a risky strike into the middle. mishpa followed by a "hit". Against DE, with 3 5 man kab squaads grabbing objectives (the mission where you gain new cards for having a number of objectives, so he'd spread across as much as he could) and let loose. Killed 4 venom, 1 ravager and 2 raider, and his kabs. Crippled his army.

Vortex has only twice killed something of an enemy, and once killed my own knight...