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more data for eldar assessment. only local 3 game tournaments though so not conclusive.

Not 1 eldar in top 3 of any the 3 tournaments.
I know the Pasadena rtt had a very strong Eldar list that lost to nids.

Orks are looking stonger and stronger is amazing how long it can take to find strong builds in a codex 6th ed daemons was the same.



So not nearly definitive, but more data to support the fact that the eldar hysteria was just that.
you can not just turn up with scat bikes, wraith knight d-scythe with a wwp and run the tables.

For those of you that have been turning down pick up games grow a pair and give it a go.
Try to enjoy the chanllge of coming up with a counter.
I recently witnessed a artillery army table a reasonably strong eldar list by turn 3
I think every army except maybe imperial knights has a counter.

tournament results can be found here :https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/2015-itc-event-results/


you will have to use your google-fu to find details.

No, you are now deliberately using titles like this to provoke people while you do nothing to back it up.

Until you actually come forward with a researched or at least proven knowledge of what the lists are and not this wishy-washy anecdotal evidence, stop making these threads.

This easily could have been merged with the previous one.

Couple that with the tournaments house rules that massively nerf D weapons. And this "evidence" is worthless to anybody that doesn't use this tournaments rules and army comp.

Are these ork lists all just green tides?

Do you know if the new Eldar were allowed?

Do you know if the Eldar players in the events used the new or old Eldar codex?

Do you have the lists of any of the Eldar players?

Do you know if any of the Eldar players are competitive players, or guys who showed up with their fluffy armies for a day of gaming?


You don't? Oh. Maybe you shouldn't be using words like 'proof' then? Also, ITC events tend to have ITC comp, where Eldar have been nerfed pretty heavily. At least the parts of the Eldar codex people have been whining about. So, I guess you've proved, if anything, that nerfed Eldar are nerfed? Congratulations.

Knock it off with the troll threads. It's getting pretty pathetic.

The fact that Sisters placed 2nd and Space marines placed first means that the tournement had to be comped. As an Eldar player I really wreck those armies all the time. Seeing as how we don't have their lists we can't just assume that the Eldar player brought an optimized list. It's also quite possible that the Eldar players upset the dice gods at some point.

Inflammatory title with nothing in the post to back it up, smells like trolling.

But I'll bite - I think you're trying to argue a point that doesn't matter. Once you account for any restrictions put in place by tournament organizers, and the fact that other tournament players will be bringing high-level lists from other codexes and playing them just as well, I don't think anyone reasonably expects Eldar to be sweeping all the top places. Nor does it prove anything either way.

If the new Eldar were stomping everyone in tournaments, not many would be shedding tears for the highly competitive scene - it's the casual players, groups of friends, pick-up games that most people worry about. Eldar crushing it in tournaments isn't proof of anything, but it's an indication that even in casual play things might not be balanced.

But if data shows the Eldar aren't completely swamping tournaments, it doesn't actually prove that they're externally balanced. Like I said, tournament restrictions and high player skill on both sides goes a long way to leveling the playing field. Even luck is going to play a big role (let's face it, the number of variables that go into the results of a game - the exact matchup of army lists, allies/formations, player skill, missions, and important dice outcomes - make it really difficult to say how large a sample size you need to really know how good one codex is versus another).

In the end, if a codex makes it easy to put together and run a stronger than average list without too much thinking or effort, it's not going to be very fun for casual opponents. If two less experienced or lower skilled players are putting together lists with models they think look cool, and one player's codex has no weak units, or an overall higher power level, or a very straightforward and forgiving style of play, it's going to be harder for them to feel like they're having a fair fight. That's not going to be reflected in tournament stats.

And for the record, I don't think it's inherently bad that some codexes are easier to play than others, I know that synergy between units and the importance of army composition mean that it's always going to be possible to pick weaker combinations of units, and I know that perfect balance between army lists in every case is impossible. But I think 40k is a very, very long way from a place where you can tell a new player in good conscience that if he starts a CSM or Tyranid army he's going to have just as easy a time winning as his friend who's starting a Necron or an Eldar army.

Let's give the OP a chance...

First off, I HATE it when people say things along the lines of "well they're ok when they're nerfed, so the codex is balanced". That means the codex is imbalanced and needed sweeping help to be less egregious.
Secondly, and I've said it before, Eldar apologists are insinuating that people are complaining that Eldar will auto-table opponents. That's not what people are saying. What they are saying is that Eldar have a distinct advantage over every other army in the game at the moment, and that tilts the balance for a given game heavily in their favor. Maybe they are too used to winning to realize this, but that sucks if you're not Eldar.

"The Eldar Codex has been out two whole weeks and hasn't won a major tournament yet! You're all a bunch of morons!"

Thanks for the rational argument, Jimmy the Greek!

I can speak to the Ottos tourney. D was changed to 1 - nothing, 2-5 is D3 wounds/HP cover and invuln allowed AP of the weapon, 6 is D3+2 wounds/HP no saves. New Eldar were in effect.

As an extra aside - I believe the top two eldar players there are relatively new to the army, unsure how long each of them has played 40k.

edits - sigh... spelling

Sunhero wrote:
For those of you that have been turning down pick up games grow a pair and give it a go.

Great argument you got there. Oh, and I see you posted another inflammatory title? You are obviously very interested in reasonable discussion.

@Cytharai thanks for the info.

where the eldar running soft lists.

How was the sisters army that came second I assume it had sisters in drop pods.
I've been thinking of trying that out myself.

NP, I think Farzad ran a jetbike heavy list with a WK, unsure what Zach and Pierce ran. I think Danny ran sisters in the SW flyers, though I could be wrong (I missed the tourney due to a hangover and having the blues about my own Eldar )

Hopefully Julnlecs will see this and chime in, as he was the SM winner over the weekend.

next ITC tourny btw has these rules in place.'

Ranged D weapons use the following damage table, replacing that listed in the rule book. Note: D Weapons with the Distort Scythe special rule still subtract 1 from the table below.

Roll of a 1: No damage occurs.
Roll of a 2-5: Target model takes D2 wounds, or hull points with a penetrating hit.
Roll of a 6: Target model takes 2 automatic wounds with no saves allowed, or D2 hull points with a penetrating hit with no saves allowed. This attack never inflicts instant death, regardless of the target model’s toughness.

Son, this is bait.

Ork list that won SOS was the type list you run to win a tournament, not to even come close to fun. As a long time Ork player I am super stoked to see guys do well in tourneys simply because Orks need more love, but Green Tide or the abomination that won SOS are gimmicks at best (Though well played gimmicks at times, not taking away from guys figuring out good synergy and sticking it to better armies), not indicative of the power of the codex. The Ork Codex is a steaming pile compared to Necrons or Eldar and that is a crying shame. Still a bit miffed to be driven a bit further into the role of "NPC" in my gaming club with each new codex.


Also, I have yet to see a perfect cheese Eldar build yet. No one in my meta has put that many bikes together. I keep telling folks, I don't think all the D weapons are the worst part of the perfect Cheese list. But, time will tell, I certainly don't think it will be as bad as people thought. People will still win with things they like and are good with (Daemons, Orks, Space Marines, w/e)

This is the list I used that won 1st place at the Otto's ITC event. I beat 3 Storm Raven Blood Angels Round 1. Blood Angels w/FW tanks and an Assassin Round 2 and 18 Wraiths 4 Doom Scythe Necrons Round 3. We only had 2 Eldar Players show up since the others are still adjusting their lists and purchasing the new units. Farzad went 2-1 with his Eldar losing to Ben's Necrons that came in 3rd.

White Scars
Khan on Bike
Librarian Lv 2 Force Axe

Scouts
Scouts

THSS Terminators
Land Raider Redeemer
THSS Terminators
Land Raider Crusader

3x Grav Cents
Thunderfire Cannon

Inquisition Detachment
Coteaz
Inquisitor Lv1 RadNades Psychotroke

I also summon Daemons with a Librarian. I'm having such a blast playing this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also usually beat the old Eldar most of the time with my Rhino Rush List. I'm 1-2 vs the New Eldar.