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I'm not all that big on mechanicum and haven't read the rules. But I'm wondering how well they would work as Dark Mechanicum codices.
They're missing daemon engines obviously, but those are relatively easily available via CSM. And they wouldn't have power of the machine spirit(assuming that rule is used at all?).

Other than that though, how well do they work? I'm not saying counts-as here. I'd imagine that for most of the imperial units you would find a dark mech equivalent on a traitor forgeworld, albeit more tentacly and daemonic.

How well do the rules work in your opinion to represent dark mech in the absence of an actual dark mech codex?


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With a little bit of unbound love from CSM as a possible option to round them out.

I've gotten permission from my local group to play them as BB with CSM under the guise of dark mechanicum. They gain little from it apart from the one-eyed open tests.
I guess you could take dedicated Rhinos and put them in turn 1 (don't even know if that's allowed).

Works fairly well for me. Daemon engines might not be from the mechanicus codex, but they sure as hell are made by my mechanicus units. :p

I was thinking more in a fluffy way. Like say, if we didn't have csm yet: The vanilla marines, terminators,bikers, jump marines and most vehicles would translate quite easily into csm. They're basically the same. The majority of the dex could totally pass as csm. Only things like the centurions and the newer tech should be avoided in that case.The psyker could even still summon daemons. It wouldn't replace a proper codex but it would be pretty close.

I don't know how the dark mechanicum operates and what units you'd likely enounter on some raid of theirs. But I feel like the current mechanicus codices would be pretty close. How different are the two really? What's missing in the codex and what makes no sense in a dark mechanicum army list?

Right now I would mix the mechanicum units (all) with some csm daemon engines and maybe a warpsmith. Maybe some infernal relics from IA13. Would that make sense on a fluff level? Or are is dark mechanicum quite different from the impieral counterparts? I always got the impression that the two aren't all that different in the end. They use different methods but pretty much seek the same, I like to think of them as being similar to radical inquisitors.

Not sure I would actually field such an army, but the forge world models and the odd GW one are pretty sweet, and chaosy conversion...mmmh....makes me at least consider it. Don't really care how effective an army it would be.

DaPino wrote:
I guess you could take dedicated Rhinos and put them in turn 1 (don't even know if that's allowed).

You can only embark on an allied Transport if those allies are Battle Brothers.

Or are is dark mechanicum quite different from the impieral counterparts? I always got the impression that the two aren't all that different in the end. They use different methods but pretty much seek the same, I like to think of them as being similar to radical inquisitors.

The Mechanicus and the Dark Mechanicus are actually vastly different. The Imperial side, while heavily bound by tradition, tech-mysticism and the attitude and outlook of a cargo cult, is still, fundamentally, working on principles of science and physics as they are understood (and operate) in M40.

The Dark Mechanicus tossed all that aside and went full-on technomancy. While "Machine Spirits" might be superstition believed as fact in the Imperium, the Dark Mechanicus is actually summoning things out of the Warp and binding them into the techno-arcane machines they construct.

Think lots of weird-ass Hellraiser-like devices and machines that are built according to strictures of occult significance, requiring the invocation of sorcerous rites prior to activation, or demanding blood sacrifices prior to deployment. The Dark Mechanicus took what science they had and alloyed it with the limitless possibilities and corrupting influence of the Warp and the Ruinous Powers, creating an unholy union of science and magic.

Thanks. So in terms of units, you'd expect more stuff like the xana lineage and few if any of the imperial units. Having abandonded those or wholly transformed them into very different things. Like maybe somewhat similar HQs but nothing equivalent to like skitarii vanguard. Though maybe some kind of abomination of what used to be a myrmidon?

I'm a little behind in my chaos reading, but are the Dark Mechanicum a strong enough presence that they actually have their own stand-alone forces? I know they have a supporting role for the various CSM and Chaos Titan Legions, but wasn't sure if they still had a standing army or something along those lines.

They're fairly potent, yes. They are bargained and bartered with by various CSM groups in exchange for various devices, services, and tech, especially by the smaller warbands who dont possess their own resources to arm and resupply.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm a little behind in my chaos reading, but are the Dark Mechanicum a strong enough presence that they actually have their own stand-alone forces? I know they have a supporting role for the various CSM and Chaos Titan Legions, but wasn't sure if they still had a standing army or something along those lines.

I figured that a faction that trades with CSM would also be able to pose a threat to them. Otherwise they'd simply be raided. I also suppose they go out and hunt for forbidden xenos tech and so every now and then.

I don't like using a codex to play a different kind of army, but I thought the units they use for those purposes might not be all that different to the codex we have now. And since we have some dark mech tech in CSM already,I figured I might get myself the mechanicus codex (once the main book hits...screw this piece meal thing). And start converting some of the current models. Since I don't see dark mechanicus worshipping and serving the various chaos gods (correct me if I'm wrong), I figured the mechanicum codex might serve double duty as dark mech. At least until we get an actual dark mech codex, since the flavour of the god still determines what properties you embed in the machine.

I thought that maybe their outward appearance might be a bit more warped and they might be more aggressive, but you could show that with conversions and playing them aggressively. Like I could still see dunecrawlers being used but on something more of a defiler chassis, like a precursor to the defiler. But otherwise still mostly a dunecrawler. Then again, these codices are more specifcally geared towards the forces of mars right? The ones that serve chaos would have been fairly different even before considering the whole technomancy thing right?

So what about the forgeworld books? Would those units fit dark mech better than the GW line?

 Ghaz wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I guess you could take dedicated Rhinos and put them in turn 1 (don't even know if that's allowed).

You can only embark on an allied Transport if those allies are Battle Brothers.

So did you not read his entire post where his local store would allow them to be BB with CSM?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I guess you could take dedicated Rhinos and put them in turn 1 (don't even know if that's allowed).

You can only embark on an allied Transport if those allies are Battle Brothers.

So did you not read his entire post where his local store would allow them to be BB with CSM?

And exactly how does that make my statement any less true? If they house rule them as Battle Brothers then they can embark because "... You can only embark on an allied Transport if those allies are Battle Brothers..."

Roknar wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm a little behind in my chaos reading, but are the Dark Mechanicum a strong enough presence that they actually have their own stand-alone forces? I know they have a supporting role for the various CSM and Chaos Titan Legions, but wasn't sure if they still had a standing army or something along those lines.

I figured that a faction that trades with CSM would also be able to pose a threat to them. Otherwise they'd simply be raided. I also suppose they go out and hunt for forbidden xenos tech and so every now and then.

Not necessarily. Just like the Imperium, CSM warbands have to deal with the Mechanicum simply because they can't replicate their services. So yeah, CSM warbands could just take what they wanted, but then they are out a vital resource because the raid would likely end in the death of the DM agents. Just look at Fabius Bile, the guy is hated by just about every Chaos legion warband out there, but he provides a vital service so they tolerate and deal with him.

I get the impression that the current representation of the DM that we have is probably the most we'll get, i.e., daemon engines present in other armies and the traitor titan legions. Maybe we'll get some DM tech priests to go with the cultists later on down the road, but the 41st millenium based fluff I've read doesn't really indicate that the DM has the same large, structured presence that the AdMech has, and are more of a behind the scenes menace.

The DM are not as unified as the AdMech is (which is saying a lot, as the AdMech is basically a rabble of people with a similar hobby) and so doesn't really field huge armies of cyborgs and killer-robots like the AdMech can. The DM has a bunch of neat toys, but is not the "monolithic" organization the AdMech is, and so cannot field them in such numbers (usually).

Of course, most CSM warbands can't field the numbers a regular Space Marine Chapter can, so it makes sense. Really, life in the EoT is much like life in the Imperium on a much smaller scale.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm a little behind in my chaos reading, but are the Dark Mechanicum a strong enough presence that they actually have their own stand-alone forces? I know they have a supporting role for the various CSM and Chaos Titan Legions, but wasn't sure if they still had a standing army or something along those lines.

Alongside their role as suppliers, they are also actually EXTREMELY militarily powerful, given that fully half of the Mechanicum everywhere split and threw in their lot with Horus. Most importantly, the VAST majority of the Legio Cybernetica, the battle-robot cohorts of the Mechanicum, ended up in the Eye. They just don't generally march to war against the Imperium, as they're often embroiled in internal power struggles and find it better to let the Legions fight it out.

I'm just crossing my fingers that DM will have it's own models and codex at some point.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm a little behind in my chaos reading, but are the Dark Mechanicum a strong enough presence that they actually have their own stand-alone forces? I know they have a supporting role for the various CSM and Chaos Titan Legions, but wasn't sure if they still had a standing army or something along those lines.

Considering more of the mechanicus went renegade than didn't during the heresy I'd say if the imperial force is big enough the dark one would be

yeah honestly the dark mechanium I don't think are apt to resemble the admech all that much these days.

Codex daemons might work. I imagine daemon essences summoned and bound to mech hosts, crammed into guns or bound to blades. E.g. close combat droids could be 'letters or 'nettes, warp-powered gun-toting servators for horrors. I would not make them look too armoured, since most daemons don't have any armour save.

Retaining daemonic alignment cues and hints through modelling and paint schemes will make remembering who has hatred of and fear+1 of who easy (e.g. when fighting daemons, eldar).

And you can explain daemonic instability wounds as the daemons using the opportunity of a bad combat to rebel from their hosts. I would use CSM primary to avoid the crazy warp storm table.

Hmm, that might work, but that kinda of thing is reaching a bit far for my tastes. I think I'd rather wait in that case. Judging by the new chaos heresy artwork and models I think forgeworld might be a better choice if we wait a book or two.