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So, I just want to vent a little frustration. I have never had a 40K army, I keep almost getting into the game and for various reasons pulling back.

Last year I bought a Necron battleforce and assembled it, painted a few warriors, then got busy with work and put it down for ~8 months. I was thinking about starting up again, and started looking online for what's new. I see a new codex, sweet! I get the ipad version and look through, see the the new way to build armies with the decurion. That looks pretty cool to me, so I start looking online for ideas and I find posts on various forums saying things like "Getting stomped by Necrons!" or "Decurion is overpowered, I won't play against them!". Oh, well... If I am going to go to the effort of building and painting a whole army, I want something that people will play against. Maybe I will look at other armies since I am starting over. I'm a little frustrated that I spent $50+ dollars on a digital book that I won't use but, better than spending hundreds on models I won't use.

Tyranid models are cool, maybe I will try Tyranids, I think to myself. I start looking around again to get ideas of what to buy, and I see lots of posts talking about how UNDERpowered Tyranids are, and how hard it is to win with them. Ok, well I want people to play with me, but I want at least a chance of winning games, maybe I should try something else.

Eldar models also look cool, and I see they have some brand new models. Oh wait, "Eldar are overpowered!". Sigh. I'm not really interested in many other armies. I'm not sure if this is all just people online overreacting or if the balance is really so bad people won't play against certain armies, or certain armies are guaranteed to lose. I don't want to be a new guy trying to get into a gaming group with an army no one wants to play against, or that will just get stomped every time. At this point, I feel like I should just try another game.

I can't be the only new person thinking this?

Play what you like! If you want to play necrons, play necrons. In the real world you should have no problem finding a game. Don't let faceless beings on the Internet spoil your hobby. Someone will always have something bad to say, no matter what you do.

It's the internet. People will declare the end is nigh if anything happens. All armies are OP or UP according to the internet.

If you like the models, get them and play them.

As long as you dont have a tournament level power list, you should be able to find friendly opponents. So for eldar, dont put scatter lasers on all your bikes. Bring 0-1 wraithknight.

I know necrons less well, but I am sure the same principle applies. Just use an army for which you enjoy the play style, and you like the background. You can ride out the temporary vagaries of game balance.

This game has never had great balance between factions.

However aslong as you have "a" army no-one really cares. They may grumble but often it's better than not playing at all.

I appreciate all the quick replies. I am just super concerned about spending a ton of money and having people tell me they won't play with me, or lose every game I ever play. I guess I should go to my gaming store and just ask around what people would think of a new player coming in with one of these armies. That feels a bit premature since it will take me months I assume to build and paint a whole army, but probably the best thing for me to do.

As I said in the original post, it's just frustrating to see posts like the one below with an army I want to play (just one example):

 krodarklorr wrote:
So, taking the heat away from Eldar for a second, I wanted to ask the community something. Is it possible to play a "casual" Decurion list? I'm asking because within the past 3 games, I've run less and less good stuff in each list, and still made a few friends not want to play against Necrons, as even my "casual" lists have been good.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/648833.page

It makes me just want to look at other games instead, but no other models I've seen really jump out at me the way these ones do. I guess I was just venting that there are a lot of aspects of 40K that feel like barriers to getting new players to play. This was just the big monetary investment combining with (perceived at least) balance problems boiling up for me.

americanzero wrote:
Play what you like! If you want to play necrons, play necrons. In the real world you should have no problem finding a game. Don't let faceless beings on the Internet spoil your hobby. Someone will always have something bad to say, no matter what you do.

The stock response is always something like this. Unfortunately, it's partially unrealistic. Yes, you should play something you like, otherwise the time and money spent aren't worth it. But as you've seen, people don't want to play against Decuricrons or Eldar right now. It'd be even less worth your time and money if you (like you recognize) bought, built, and painted an army but rarely got games because people didn't want to fight against you.

There are middle of the road armies (Tyranids aren't horrible, just not wholly useful). Dark Eldar have similar aesthetics to Eldar and allow you to take Eldar allies without totally riding on the cheese mobile. Non-Decurion necrons aren't nearly as bad and let you use what you have.

Just know that if you do buy into 40k, this cycle of OP releases isn't going to end. GW is awful for rules balance and their prices are just as bad. It's a fun game but play at your own risk.

Tbh in a few more months people will of figured out a type of counter. So don't worry too much.

I say look at other games. What's the harm? there are so many good games out there. Explore!

If balance is a important to you, I suggest you look at other games.

Meihana wrote:
I appreciate all the quick replies. I am just super concerned about spending a ton of money and having people tell me they won't play with me, or lose every game I ever play. I guess I should go to my gaming store and just ask around what people would think of a new player coming in with one of these armies. That feels a bit premature since it will take me months I assume to build and paint a whole army, but probably the best thing for me to do.

As I said in the original post, it's just frustrating to see posts like the one below with an army I want to play (just one example):

 krodarklorr wrote:
So, taking the heat away from Eldar for a second, I wanted to ask the community something. Is it possible to play a "casual" Decurion list? I'm asking because within the past 3 games, I've run less and less good stuff in each list, and still made a few friends not want to play against Necrons, as even my "casual" lists have been good.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/648833.page

It makes me just want to look at other games instead, but no other models I've seen really jump out at me the way these ones do. I guess I was just venting that there are a lot of aspects of 40K that feel like barriers to getting new players to play. This was just the big monetary investment combining with (perceived at least) balance problems boiling up for me.

The best thing to do, if you really want to play 40k, play the army you love. I've loved Necrons since my friend got me into Dawn of War back like, 6-7 years ago, and finally started collecting a year and a half ago. I wouldn't be playing 40k if it weren't for Necrons. Regardless of power level, if you love the army, the fluff, the models, just go for it. That's what the game is about, mostly.

As far as not finding a game, it depends on the people in your area. I've made a few friends hate playing against Crons, but mostly I still have people willing to play me, as some people see it as a challenge to try and beat them. Or, we do 2v2s, or spice the game up, or something along those lines. I even thought of pitching an idea to my girlfriend about running a narrative game using Black Crusade rules from the Battle Missions book for her Chaos Space Marines, and then she'd have a 500 point handicap, and we'd see if she can kill me then still. Plus some people in your area might be running super-optimized tourney lists anyway, and thus Decurion won't even be an issue.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
Tbh in a few more months people will of figured out a type of counter. So don't worry too much.

Don't kid yourself into believing that everything has some magical hard counter.

If you care about about being "That Guy" too much you'll just play with stuff you don't want to.

Get what you think is cool, and you want to play with, and if your opponents get frustrated start tinkering until your army becomes weak enough to be a fair fight.

Figuring that out, should give you a lot of knowledge about the game, and should set up a framework for the games to not be grueling grinds for your opponents.

If it becomes a test environment, and you're not just gloating over easy wins, other players should be less wary of playing against you.

Just let them concede when its apparent that its over, and save you both time, during play tests.

It happens to anyone with the upper-tier armies anyway. You figure out how to play with the op brokeness against other people with lower power level armies, or you are that guy.

Meihana wrote:
I guess I should go to my gaming store and just ask around what people would think of a new player coming in with one of these armies. That feels a bit premature since it will take me months I assume to build and paint a whole army, but probably the best thing for me to do.

Good instinct. You may find that the local players in your area are not bothered by Necrons or Eldar. And you might find that they are playing a different game entirely. If that's where you plan to play, go get a sense. Not premature at all, and worth your time.

Meihana wrote:
I guess I was just venting that there are a lot of aspects of 40K that feel like barriers to getting new players to play. This was just the big monetary investment combining with (perceived at least) balance problems boiling up for me.

There are players who have no issues with Decurion too, it depends a lot on the player. There's no matchmaking in 40k. You're also face-to-face... some people don't deal well with losing and you're gonna see that too. Just human nature.

Find a good group, be cool yourself, it will resolve 90% of potential issues.

lustigjh wrote:

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
Tbh in a few more months people will of figured out a type of counter. So don't worry too much.

Don't kid yourself into believing that everything has some magical hard counter.

Don't get me wrong, they're horribly unbalanced imo, simply once a few tricks are figured out it'll ease the pain a little.

You could always offer to run your Necrons as a CAD if people complain about the decurion.

Actually gives you a nice way to slide up or down the power of your list.

Welcome to Warhammer, if it's not space marines its overpowered!
Play what you want to play, im sure you will find plenty of players.

Play an army you like, and it rewards you with the enjoyment. Don't worry about winning, losing, or other people's trash talking. If you play for an awesome competitive game, 40k isn't for you. If you want a fun way to play games with some pretty cool models and background story, with a lot of literary support, 40k is a pretty decent game.

Nothing is perfect, war isn't balanced. Haha

Meihana wrote:
So, I just want to vent a little frustration. I have never had a 40K army, I keep almost getting into the game and for various reasons pulling back.

Last year I bought a Necron battleforce and assembled it, painted a few warriors, then got busy with work and put it down for ~8 months. I was thinking about starting up again, and started looking online for what's new. I see a new codex, sweet! I get the ipad version and look through, see the the new way to build armies with the decurion. That looks pretty cool to me, so I start looking online for ideas and I find posts on various forums saying things like "Getting stomped by Necrons!" or "Decurion is overpowered, I won't play against them!". Oh, well... If I am going to go to the effort of building and painting a whole army, I want something that people will play against. Maybe I will look at other armies since I am starting over. I'm a little frustrated that I spent $50+ dollars on a digital book that I won't use but, better than spending hundreds on models I won't use.

Tyranid models are cool, maybe I will try Tyranids, I think to myself. I start looking around again to get ideas of what to buy, and I see lots of posts talking about how UNDERpowered Tyranids are, and how hard it is to win with them. Ok, well I want people to play with me, but I want at least a chance of winning games, maybe I should try something else.

Eldar models also look cool, and I see they have some brand new models. Oh wait, "Eldar are overpowered!". Sigh. I'm not really interested in many other armies. I'm not sure if this is all just people online overreacting or if the balance is really so bad people won't play against certain armies, or certain armies are guaranteed to lose. I don't want to be a new guy trying to get into a gaming group with an army no one wants to play against, or that will just get stomped every time. At this point, I feel like I should just try another game.

I can't be the only new person thinking this?

Welcome to 40k! Enjoy your stay mate

For serious though if you want balance go play WMH or Infinity or one of the other games, you won't find it here.

Only way to play IMO is casual and narrative games in your garage with like minded opponents. Even then you need a lot of gentlemans agreements to keep it from becoming stupid

Definately take what you love, or you will not even want to paint your models..

I would love to play with anyone living close to me, since i dont have a local gamingstore closer than 45 min driving.

Also, i sometimes play with my girlfriend and then i have to make lists that will be evenly powered, and that is also fun to make and play.

Tyranids are wicked awesome, and not underpowered. No other army is as versatile, nor does any other force have such a variety of play styles and model types.

With that said, play the army that you want to play. People will have to just deal with it.

1.) Aesthetics
2.) Play-Style


Focus on those two things. If you like the Necron look and how they play, stick with it. I hate playing against Necrons. But I would never turn down a game from someone who really likes their army. Enthusiasm matters in my opinion.

I'd say look into the actual game and not just the models. Your OP makes it sound like the game part does matter to you, so watch people play at your local store/club as it'll give you a good idea of how the game plays and how appealing that is to you. It'll also give you a good idea of the attitudes of those players towards the game and you can measure that to your own attitude towards the game.

Also look into other games, you may find another game that appeals to you more than 40k. If your local store isn't a GW, it may be worth asking the manager what else is being played in your area.

 ColonelFazackerley wrote:
As long as you dont have a tournament level power list, you should be able to find friendly opponents. So for eldar, dont put scatter lasers on all your bikes. Bring 0-1 wraithknight.

I know necrons less well, but I am sure the same principle applies. Just use an army for which you enjoy the play style, and you like the background. You can ride out the temporary vagaries of game balance.

This is the probably the best answer. No codexes or armies are inherently overpowered, just some are easier to build OP lists with than others. Necrons without Decurion or multiple Wraith units are not going to break the game, neither are Eldar without Wraithknights or Scatter Laser Jetbikes, so simply avoid those options. It's easy enough to find out about what's considered OP, and just not go out of your way to take that stuff.

It bears saying again, play what you like, and with even a modicum of thought for your opponent and being a decent guy, you should have no issues whatsoever!

I say run for your life! I believe you are concerned with investing to much time and money into an army only to find people don't want to play it or the army/models are not very useful. GW doesn't care whether the units/wargear are balanced within the dex or between armies. GW doesn't care how much you spent on models or books (as long as you keep buying) and is perfectly fine introducing new rules in short order so you have to buy a new set of mediocre books (which may make your nice new model that you bought useless in games). If you are fine with all that then enjoy 40K.

The reality is by the time you buy, assemble, paint, and learn to use your army, the entire game will be revamped and you'll have to adjust anyways. Don't worry about it when you're just starting. Start small and simple. Build up according to what you like. People will have fun playing you and you're not going to curb stomp anybody as a beginner even if you take the most OP list possible.

If you want to buy expensive rules updates or new codecies every other year then go for it. That's a bit of an exaggeration but not by much.

Look around your local area and see what other games are being played. If anything else is there, play that instead. That's not an exaggeration. Any other game you choose will have better rules. And there are lots of great minis out there. Go explore outside the money trap that is GW.

If you want to buy, assemble, and paint Necrons, then go ahead and play them.

What I mean by that is two things:

GW has proven to be terrible at game design (at best, if not deliberately malevolent*), so don't count on units you like being good, or even fieldable, in the future. Don't count on your army being viable, or even PLAYABLE without units that you don't want to buy, assemble, or paint. However, if you can get enough enjoyment out of buying, assembling, and painting models, you might as well try playing with them. Collecting and building units so that you have a good army is simply an exercise in frustration with GW.

That's the really negative way to spin it.

On the more positive side, many, many people love the look of particular armies or models, and really, really enjoy collecting, painting, and modeling them. I love Orks, and I have TONS of them (don't get me started). I don't expect my collection to be particularly powerful, and I don't really care! I use them for Gorkamorka, Kill Team, whatever, but I'm happy putting them together and painting them too. Don't underestimate the pleasure you can get out of that. Collecting an army that you love can be fun and easy, even with (or despite) GW.

*Says the guy who thinks minotaurs were cool, and bought boxes upon boxes of the newly released plastic ones when it was legal to field an all-Minotaur army in Fantasy, only to see that army build invalidated by the new army book that came out seemingly weeks after the minotaurs went on sale.

Talk to the people in your area that you're going to be playing against and get their opinions on the matter. You won't be playing any of us anytime soon most likely so our opinions dont mean anything.

And if you are just getting in to the game and starting with a small force, I am sure that even those people who cry about Necrons being OP would still play you. You're not an uber competitive net-list gamer who is just trying to spam the latest cheese.

So go out to your local store on game-day and talk to them. See what they think about it all. And I can almost guarantee you that they will recommend you stick with Necron.