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Recently my group has been discussing putting a heirophant inside a tyrannocyte, reading the Gargantuan creature page a gargantuan creature is a monstrous creature with extra rules which would allow it to be transported.

From this we believe this is correct but before we rule it as fact I am curious what the general consensus would be.

It seems like RAW that would work. But I would house rule it to not as intention is almost certainly that a Tyrannocyte can't carry a Gargantuan Creature.

The Tyrannocyte also requires the transported unit to have the Tyranids Faction, which I am unsure the Hierophant's rules include.

Otherwise, yes, if the Hierophant's rules include that it is the Tyranids Faction then for consistency it's entirely legal, though almost certainly not RAI.

The Hierophant has the Tyrannid faction.
I didn't know you could transport monstrous creatures though.

 jokerkd wrote:
The Hierophant has the Tyrannid faction.
I didn't know you could transport monstrous creatures though.

Tyrannocyte states it has a Transport Capacity of 20, and that Monstrous Creatures count as 20 models for the purposes of Transport Capacity.

The Tyrannocyte is not a vehicle so it's debatable if it applies (though I don't know how to treat its transport capacity without referencing the vehicle rules) but I mentioned in a thread on Warseer if you wanted to get particularly strict you could run with the fact that the rulebook requirement to specifically state otherwise isn't met to transport anything except Infantry...

Tbh if I had an opponent trying to transport a Hierophant in a Tyrannocyte I'd probably actually argue that

"Gargantuan Creature" is it's own unit type, just like "Monstrous Creature", "Walker", or "Infantry"

 greyknight12 wrote:
"Gargantuan Creature" is it's own unit type, just like "Monstrous Creature", "Walker", or "Infantry"

I agree that that makes sense, however the rules for Gargantuan Creatures state, "Gargantuan Creatures are Monstrous Creatures that have the additional rules and exceptions given below."

Even the transport rules notes a specific exclusion for Jump and Jet Pack Infantry as not being included as Infantry, while no such exclusion is stated in this case for Gargantuan Creatures not being Monstrous Creatures.

The Tyrannocyte rules state that you have to

"Place the unit such that every model is wholly
within 6" of the Tyrannocyte and none are within 1" of an
enemy or within impassable terrain"

I'm not sure of the size of the Hierophant, but if it doesn't have any diametric dimensions less than or equal to 6", it cannot embark a Tyrannocyte and has to be removed as a casualty as it cannot be placed "wholly" within 6" of the transport.

I've read that it is ~10"x11", which would make it impossible to place wholly within 6". If anyone has a hierophant and wants to correct me on its dimensions, please do!

The Hierodule should be fine to transport RAW, though. There are no explicit rules stating a GMC can't be transported.

I dont think that was the intent.

If someone modelled a tyrranocite that was Actually large enough to bit it..
Sure i would totally allow it. provided they had the actual model for the Heirophant.

Whilst the embarkation distance is undeniablly true , the main point is that a gargantuan creature, is not a monstrous creature. It follows a lot of the same rules, but that doesn't mean it is one, for rules specific to interacting with monstrous creatures.

Straight from the BRB: "Gargantuan Creatures are Monstrous Creatures that have the additional rules and exceptions given below." Which someone noted above.

There is no way they intended to have a gigantic titan transported by something that can only fit 20 Hormagaunts or 1 Carnifex. That's like a Knight popping out of a little drop pod. Also: it serves as a transport with 20 slots on its own, so I don't see them allowing a unit that can have things disembark, disembarking from a transport.

Indeed, RAW it's allowed.

However, RAI is probably not the case. The ITC FAQ have house ruled it as you can't (also applies to Tyrannocytes in case any of you were going to play Russian dolls).

For additional trolling, take the forge world upgrade for the bio titan and give it a transport capacity also.

But, as was stated, the rules do permit the heirophant to be transported, but it would die upon disembarkation due to not being able to be deployed.

RAW only allow a model that can fit "wholly" within 6" of the Tyrannocyte to disembark. I don't believe the Hierophant can accomplish this, while the Hierodule can.

So.. RAW is not the case here, either.

Although.. I guess you COULD do it, then remove the model as a casualty immediately.

It might be fun to make it like the GMC bursts out of the Cyte destroying it..... :-)

I am struggling to tell if you guys are joking or not.

Yes, GMCs follow all the rules for MCs. But they are a distinct unit type.

They have their own heading in the unit type section.

Tying to claim a rule for the unit type MC also automatically applies to all GMC and FGMCS is ubsurd.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
For additional trolling, take the forge world upgrade for the bio titan and give it a transport capacity also.

But, as was stated, the rules do permit the heirophant to be transported, but it would die upon disembarkation due to not being able to be deployed.

The hierophant is pretty leggy, you could probably place it OVER the tyrannocyte, and therefore deploy it without breakig any rules.

 goblinzz wrote:


The hierophant is pretty leggy, you could probably place it OVER the tyrannocyte, and therefore deploy it without breakig any rules.

Keep in mind though: The Tyrannocyte is quite tall. The Hierophant's belly and tail are quite close to the ground. I'd be interested to see if anyone is even able to do this. I'd be more than willing to bet that the Hierophant is impaled by the gribbly mouth.

GC's are not MC's any more than FMCs are. They share rules, but each are different units by RAW.

Small point but Gargantuan Creatures are not stated as following or sharing the rules for Monstrous Creatures; we are explicitly told they are Monstrous Creatures with additional rules.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Small point but Gargantuan Creatures are not stated as following or sharing the rules for Monstrous Creatures; we are explicitly told they are Monstrous Creatures with additional rules.

Yes, but still a distinct unit type.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Small point but Gargantuan Creatures are not stated as following or sharing the rules for Monstrous Creatures; we are explicitly told they are Monstrous Creatures with additional rules.

Yes, but still a distinct unit type.

The rules book literally says. word for word, "gargantuan creatures are monstrous creatures" It's as ironclad as you can get...

harkequin wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Small point but Gargantuan Creatures are not stated as following or sharing the rules for Monstrous Creatures; we are explicitly told they are Monstrous Creatures with additional rules.

Yes, but still a distinct unit type.

The rules book literally says. word for word, "gargantuan creatures are monstrous creatures" It's as ironclad as you can get...

Yup, that is the rules difference between "treated as" and "is"

Also, the biotitan definitely won't fit over the tyranocyte, that gribbly is WAY too tall.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Small point but Gargantuan Creatures are not stated as following or sharing the rules for Monstrous Creatures; we are explicitly told they are Monstrous Creatures with additional rules.

Yes, but still a distinct unit type.

In the same way as Jump/Jet Pack Infantry are to Infantry, yes.

As I mentioned earlier, the transport vehicle rules specifically exclude Jet Pack and Jump Pack Infantry from ordinarily embarking on transports as Infantry. There's no such exclusion in this transport non-vehicle unit's rules, which to me suggests we could rightly assume Gargantuan Creatures are a sort of sub-unit type of Monstrous Creatures.

Moot point here though, as I wouldn't suggest playing it this way for this specific instance, and the Hierophant doesn't fit wholly within 6" of the the Tyrannocye, so...

 Mr. Shine wrote:

In the same way as Jump/Jet Pack Infantry are to Infantry, yes.

As I mentioned earlier, the transport vehicle rules specifically exclude Jet Pack and Jump Pack Infantry from ordinarily embarking on transports as Infantry. There's no such exclusion in this transport non-vehicle unit's rules, which to me suggests we could rightly assume Gargantuan Creatures are a sort of sub-unit type of Monstrous Creatures.

There is a complete exclusion for any model that's not infantry.

Transport vehicle rules specifically say....

A transport vehicle can carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of IC (so long as they are also infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the transport capacity.

it goes on to say...

Only infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger infantry models count as more than 1 model for the purposes of transport capacity, and this will be specified in the models rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the units entry.

Now... From gargantuan creatures...

Gargantuan Creatures are monstrous creatures that have additional rules and exceptions given below.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Tyranids codex to confirm this but it seems to me that - assuming the tyrannocite give an exception to allow MC to embark (as they are not infantry as per the core rule requirements) - then so long as you can meet the requirements to disembark (like a hierodule can - the Hierophant probably not) then an argument can be made to support them using the tyrannocite to deploy.

Unfortunately, the non-vehicle line of reasoning gets halted pretty quickly. If it is not considered a transport vehicle, it has no rules for how to transport units.

Another unfortunate point is that the rule does not actually say you can even transport MCs. What it does say has the same effect as giving a land speeder the Very Bulky special rule.

Obviously I would allow you to transport an MC. Because RAI.
But if I'm willing to make that concession, I dont expect someone to push their luck

 Massaen wrote:
There is a complete exclusion for any model that's not infantry.

Transport vehicle rules specifically say....

A transport vehicle can carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of IC (so long as they are also infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the transport capacity.

it goes on to say...

Only infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger infantry models count as more than 1 model for the purposes of transport capacity, and this will be specified in the models rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the units entry.

My point was that the fact there is a specific exclusion from Infantry also including Jet and Jump Pack Infantry for the purpose of being ordinarily able to embark upon transports suggests that, without any such exclusion, we would be entitled to assume Jet and Jump Pack Infantry do count as Infantry for that purpose. The fact they had to specifically point it out suggests that otherwise we should assume they are included.

In this case the Tyrannocyte's rules refer to Monstrous Creatures without restricting Gargantuan Creatures, unlike how the transport vehicle rules refer to Infantry while making an explicit exception for Jet and Jump Pack Infantry.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Massaen wrote:
There is a complete exclusion for any model that's not infantry.

Transport vehicle rules specifically say....

A transport vehicle can carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of IC (so long as they are also infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the transport capacity.

it goes on to say...

Only infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger infantry models count as more than 1 model for the purposes of transport capacity, and this will be specified in the models rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the units entry.

My point was that the fact there is a specific exclusion from Infantry also including Jet and Jump Pack Infantry for the purpose of being ordinarily able to embark upon transports suggests that, without any such exclusion, we would be entitled to assume Jet and Jump Pack Infantry do count as Infantry for that purpose. The fact they had to specifically point it out suggests that otherwise we should assume they are included.

In this case the Tyrannocyte's rules refer to Monstrous Creatures without restricting Gargantuan Creatures, unlike how the transport vehicle rules refer to Infantry while making an explicit exception for Jet and Jump Pack Infantry.

The difference is, jump and jet pack infantry are listed as infantry on their profile

 jokerkd wrote:
The difference is, jump and jet pack infantry are listed as infantry on their profile

And Gargantuan Creatures are stated as being Monstrous Creatures.