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Hi All,

This is my first post, so please be gentle...

I've looked around and there are a few threads here and elsewhere about how Eldar Jetbikes move, including their Turbo-boost (36" instead of shooting) and 2D6" move in the assault phase. I don't think the BRB is particularly clear, but common sense/fair play suggests you can either charge 2D6" OR move 2D6" in the assault phase. Move places I've read about it agree with this.

But my question is about after assaulting. Considering it from a 'real-life' point of view, surely a hovering jetbike could just swoop away after striking (and possibly receiving) a few blows. But I can't find anything to suggest that a jetbike can break off from assault (e.g. on its next movement phase). The best answer to this would probably be the Hit & Run special rule, but jetbikes don't have it.

I guess this question would also be valid for bikes. Why sit on your bike and take a beating when you could just ride off?

You're correct - unless the bikes have Hit & Run, they can't break from an assault. Those are the rules, and the rules don't care about fluff.


That said,

You can imagine it as being that most combatants are well equipped and proficient at making sure enemies can't just get away, but that only units with Hit & Run are capable enough to actually do it.

If there was no such risk, why would wiping out units after they lose an assault be so easy.

Thanks Yarium.

You've confirmed I haven't just missed something in the rules! And your fluff explanation helps make it all make a little more sense too.

Time to buy a few Windriders now...

Not a problem! If you like the idea of getting in and out quickly with Jetbikes, look to the Harlequins ;-). Their jetbikes DO have Hit & Run to do precisely that... as do ALL of their troops. Slippery buggers...

Well in the RAW there is nothing prohibiting you from doing the jetbike move while in combat. It would however not end the combat. So if your models are not touching both units would move 3" to get back into combat. If you can get your bikes far enough away that they still don't touch after that the combat ends, and you both consolidate. Basically you have to roll 7 or more to escape.

Sorry but that's a negative.

 coblen wrote:
Well in the RAW there is nothing prohibiting you from doing the jetbike move while in combat. It would however not end the combat. So if your models are not touching both units would move 3" to get back into combat. If you can get your bikes far enough away that they still don't touch after that the combat ends, and you both consolidate. Basically you have to roll 7 or more to escape.

I'll have to look this up later, but I'm sure it's in error. Models in close combat can't be moved unless it's fore pile-in or consolidation movements.

 coblen wrote:
Well in the RAW there is nothing prohibiting you from doing the jetbike move while in combat. It would however not end the combat. So if your models are not touching both units would move 3" to get back into combat. If you can get your bikes far enough away that they still don't touch after that the combat ends, and you both consolidate. Basically you have to roll 7 or more to escape.

Locked in Combat
Eldar Jetbike
End of combat pile in
The locked in combat only prevents movement in the movement phase and disallows running, it says nothing of the assault phase.
Similarly the eldar jetbike rules say nothing about if they are locked in combat, this means that RAW you can make the move even if you are in combat.
Also if you make the 2d6" move after the combat has been resolved (ie after pile in), but before the end of your assault phase then even if you only move 2" you are no longer locked in combat as you are not in base contact at the end of the phase.

Edit: It also doesn't mention that it has to be your assault phase when you make the move, it just says the assault phase, but lets not get into a discussion about if you can activate stuff in your opponents turn. (you can't)

So when during the assaultt phase are you allowed to move the Jetbikes? Can I attack you at my initiative, make my move, and deny you your attacks if you're at a lower initiative? Or can I do this move before blows are struck? I'm not trying to ask this to point out flaws, I'm honestly curious. There has to be a time when you select the unit, and that unit is given the opportunity to do something.

Seriously you cant do it.

 Yarium wrote:
So when during the assaultt phase are you allowed to move the Jetbikes? Can I attack you at my initiative, make my move, and deny you your attacks if you're at a lower initiative? Or can I do this move before blows are struck? I'm not trying to ask this to point out flaws, I'm honestly curious. There has to be a time when you select the unit, and that unit is given the opportunity to do something.

The eldar jetbike rule says nothing about when you can do it so just do it whenever, although I would refrain from doing it in the middle of a combat.

Dozer blades don't just say I can't do it, find me a rule that says I cant and quote it otherwise you will just be ignored.

roflmajog wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
So when during the assaultt phase are you allowed to move the Jetbikes? Can I attack you at my initiative, make my move, and deny you your attacks if you're at a lower initiative? Or can I do this move before blows are struck? I'm not trying to ask this to point out flaws, I'm honestly curious. There has to be a time when you select the unit, and that unit is given the opportunity to do something.

The eldar jetbike rule says nothing about when you can do it so just do it whenever, although I would refrain from doing it in the middle of a combat.

I mean, consider the movement and shooting phases. In those phases, you are told to select a unit to move with, or a unit to shoot with. Once chosen, you then perform their actions. In the case of shooting, you may instead Run, but this has to be done when they were selected to perform an action. If you check in the Assault phase, when are you given permission to select a unit? I believe you are given permission when choosing whether or not to declare charges. This would be the doorway to being able to move a unit in the assault phase. You select a unit, and instead of declaring a charge, you perform a jet thrust move. Units not selected in close combat still perform actions, but only after all charges have been declared and resolved. At that point you go around resolving "combats" - not selections of units, but rather an order to resolving the close quarters fighting going on.

Again, I'll need to double-check this later, but from that understanding, unless you're able to charge, you won't be able to select a jet bike unit. Since the selection never happened, the assault move doesn't happen either.

(In my opinion, this is the same reason why you can't change the flight mode of a deep striking flying monstrous creature. If it can't move, then it can't be selected to move, and since it can't be selected it can't change flight modes.)

Maugan Ra can shoot during any shooting phase... just one more silly thing that people say here . The onus is on you to prove it .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Maugan Ra can shoot during any shooting phase... just one more silly thing that people say here . The onus is on you to prove it .

Yeah I disagree with that for the same reason I disagree with eldar jetbikes moving in the enemy assault phase.
I have shown my proof and quoted the rules that say I can use my 2d6 move to leave combat, so the onus is on you to disprove me.
However I am arguing from a pure RAW standpoint I'm not saying this is HIWPI.

Lots of units can make jet pack move during the assault phase such as Tau. Why do you think it's never come up for discussion before now ?

It has not come up because the rules for those units are very specific, they are jet pack units.

Jet Pack Thrust Move

A jet pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2d6" in the assault phase, even if they have shot or run in the preceding shooting phase or arrived by deep strike that turn.

Did you not think to look at the wording of the rule you were talking about before saying it?

Well the rule is the same basically for other units with jet packs and there's no getting around being locked in combat. At best maybe you can get out of combat your turn which is pretty much worthless.

I believe I have shown that the locked in combat rule says nothing about me moving away during the assault phase, and also I am only talking about what I can do and I have stated that it should only be in your own turn.
It could be used to get your objsec bikes out of combat and onto that objective behind the unit you just shot and charged.

I dont believe the fight sub phase has a point that allow such a move to be inserted. When do you presume you would be able to make the move?

Just stop. You answered your own ? in your post. If models are not in base to base they arent locked in combat. If you have models in base to base you are locked in combat thus not allowing the 2D6 move.

Stop trolling. This topic should only have the first response and be done.

Incognito15 wrote:
Just stop. You answered your own ? in your post. If models are not in base to base they arent locked in combat. If you have models in base to base you are locked in combat thus not allowing the 2D6 move.

Stop trolling. This topic should only have the first response and be done.

He's not trolling. He's arguing that being locked in combat doesnt actually restrict him from making his 2d6 assault phase move

When during either of the subphases is the "move any other random models that can move in the assault phase" section? There is nowhere for any jet pack or eldar jetbike moves to be inserted in the assault phase, so unless you are telling me I can never move my bikes or jetpacks in the assault phase I can do it whenever I want during the assault phase.

Not worth arguing about.

In answer to your ? OP no you cant use your Assault Move if locked in combat. Ignore trolls who will argue this for the next 3 pages.

you are forced into the fight sub phase which has a specific sequence to follow. For example after all initiative x attacks are resolved, move on to the next initiative step. (paraphrased)

The fact that there is a point in the assault phase where models can be moved before the fight sub phase means that you have permission to move then. There is no such point in the fight sub phase

The whole assault phase has a very specific sequence to follow with nowhere for any extra abilities. Around where I play such abilities are either done at the very beginning or the very end of the assault phase, with most using the end after all combats have been resolved but before your turn ends.

Looking at the rulebook, there is indeed an order to the Assault Phase. The only time you start selecting units is to declare charges, done by checking to see if that unit is in range to declare an charge. At no other time during the Assault Phase do you select units. As such, that would seem to be the only legal time you could make an Eldar Jetbike assault-move. Units locked in close combat cannot declare charges, and thus can not be selected to declare a charge, and therefore can't make an Eldar Jetbike assault-move.

Now, if you think that's nonsensical, it would behove you to find where in the Assault phase you are allowed to select a unit to declare any kind of assault move. With this exception of declaring charges, I cannot find one.

Nowhere in any part of the assault phase does it make mention of jet pack, or eldar jet bike jump movements. All the movement says is that you have permission to do it in the assault phase. It makes no mention of what subphase.

You have permission to do it for the entire assault phase. There is nothing in any sub phase that prohibits it.

The fact that you can select units in the charge phase is irrelevant as it only gives permission to select units to charge. The bike jump move gives permission for the entire phase.

 coblen wrote:
Nowhere in any part of the assault phase does it make mention of jet pack, or eldar jet bike jump movements. All the movement says is that you have permission to do it in the assault phase. It makes no mention of what subphase.

You have permission to do it for the entire assault phase. There is nothing in any sub phase that prohibits it.

The fact that you can select units in the charge phase is irrelevant as it only gives permission to select units to charge. The bike jump move gives permission for the entire phase.

The rules for jet bikes also allow you to move 12" in the movement phase, but the process of moving is still controlled by "select a unit, do something with it" format. Being told that you can do something in a certain phase is not a permission of when to do it. For example, if I have a vehicle and a squad of infantry, with the vehicle blocking the infantry unit's move, then I need to move the vehicle first and then move the infantry. I cannot move them simultaneously, even though they may both move in the movement phase. I am given permission of selecting a unit and moving it before continuing to the next unit. This is a permission, not a restriction. There has to be a time where the unit is allowed to do something in order for you to move it, and since the only time you do that in the assault phase is when you select a unit to declare charges, then that must be the time that an Eldar Jetbike move is done - else the rule is nonsensical and you would never be allowed to use it.

Yes and in the movement phase you are given specific permission to be able to move and how to do it. Please point out to me whereabouts in the charge subphase you are given specific permission to do anything with your models other than saying what they are charging, rolling a charge range or moving them into base contact with the enemy. I have a rule that gives specific permission to do it in the assault phase, but not specifying when in the assault phase, so it can so it at any time during the period permitted by my rule. Also while the unit is actually fighting in the fight subphase I have permission to do things too, so could I not do my move during the fight? Neither of these times gives me an explicit permission or restriction to making my 2d6 move.

"I have a rule that gives specific permission to do it in the assault phase, but not specifying when in the assault phase, so it can so it at any time during the period permitted by my rule."

Where in the rules does it state that you can do it any time?