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It doesn't say you can do it at any time. It says you can do it in the assault phase. The assault phase has multiple subphases, but all of them are part of the assault phase. Since all subphases are included in the assault phase, and the only rules around this movement are that it can be done during the assualt phase, it can therefore be done at any point during the assualt phase.

If there was a line in the assault phase that said this is when you do jet pack, and jet bike moves then that would be the time to do it. There is no such line though.

If there was a line that said during this subphase jetpack, and jetbike moves may not be done than you would not be able to do it during that subphase. There is no such line though.

Under your reasoning you could never move jet pack infantry, or jet bikes in the assault phase because there is nothing in the assault phase that gives them permission to move them. This is flawed however because they dont need permission from lines in the assault phase. They get there permission from lines that exist in there unit type description. The assault phase rules give general rules for doing the assualt phase, and the unit type description give a specific exception to the general rule.

They are given permission to move in the assault phase. There are no other conditions that state when they do it so they can do it at any time during the assault phase.

If they are locked they can't move.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
If they are locked they can't move.

The rules for locked in combat say that they cannot move in the movement phase, or run in the shooting phase. It never says that you cannot move in the assualt phase.

If you are locked in combat you cannot leave combat - you're trying to make it sound like Hit and Run which it clearly isn't.

No you cannot leave combat, but you can move. If you move far enough away combat ends automatically.

First you roll your jump move and then move away from the combat. Then since you and your opponents models are not in base to base they both pile in 3". If after this 3" pile in they are not in base to base the combat ends and both units consolodate. So as long as you can get far enough away that your bases wont touch you can escape. Generally this would be 7", but it could be more or less based on terrain.

 coblen wrote:
No you cannot leave combat, but you can move. If you move far enough away combat ends automatically.

You just stated the reason why this doesn't work. You're right you can't leave combat, so you can't move put of combat, because that would be leaving combat, which as you indicated you can't do. If you can't leave combat then you can't do voluntary actions that would cause you to leave combat.

As the rule says if you are in base to base contact you must fight in the assault phase, fighting In the assault phase doesn't have a step allowing for voluntary movement.

If you insist that you can use the assault move to get out of combat you would have to find a step allows you to make the move, remembering that you are locked in combat and must fight in the assault phase (which has a set of sub-phases that you would be required to proceed through following their rules).

Trystis wrote:

 coblen wrote:
No you cannot leave combat, but you can move. If you move far enough away combat ends automatically.

You just stated the reason why this doesn't work. You're right you can't leave combat, so you can't move put of combat, because that would be leaving combat, which as you indicated you can't do. If you can't leave combat then you can't do voluntary actions that would cause you to leave combat.

As the rule says if you are in base to base contact you must fight in the assault phase, fighting In the assault phase doesn't have a step allowing for voluntary movement.

If you insist that you can use the assault move to get out of combat you would have to find a step allows you to make the move, remembering that you are locked in combat and must fight in the assault phase (which has a set of sub-phases that you would be required to proceed through following their rules).

You cannot leave combat, but you can move around. There are no restrictions on when during the assault phase, the jump move is made. Withought any restrictions it can be done in combat. The Jet pack jump move cannot be done in combat, and that is because it specifically states that this is a restriction. There is no such restriction on eldar jetbikes

You are not leaving combat, which is why they still have to pile in and try to fight, but withought any restrictions on the movement they can move during the fight, and that movement can cause the combat to end. By moving you are not leaving the combat. The combat does not end untill after all the pile in moves are finished.

You do not need a step in the assualt phase to do the jump move. If you did then jump moves could never happan whether you where inside, or outside of combat. This is because there is no step anywhere that says when in the assault phase to do the jump. Instead jetbikes are given permission to do it during the assault phase, and since there are no other conditions or restrictions on the timing it may be at any point during the assualt phase. The rules of the assualt phase are a general rule for combat. The jump move is a specific exeption to that general rule.

I'm going to sound like a broken record...

There's but 3 options:

#1 - An Eldar Jet Bike can assault-move at any time during the assault phase, without there needing to be a rule to select the unit.

In this case, you can do this at ANY time. You could do it before blows are struck, or after, in between your attacks and theirs, or even DURING an attack (oh, you hit with all your attacks? excuse me while I assault-move at any time to move away so you can no longer assign your wounds). You could do this before charges, after charges, during charges. You could do this after combat, but before fall-back, or after combat and after fall-back. You could even do this during opposing player turns, since you're saying that selection of the unit is not required.

Note, this is because you're saying you can do this at any point during the assault phase without needing to be told when to select a unit. Ipso facto, that means at ANY time, even during these surely ridiculous times. (The rules also don't say you can't do it multiple times, so I guess you can just go anywhere on the board at any time during the assault phase.)

#2 - An Eldar Jet Bike can assault-move only when selected, and since that's only while you declare charges (and this rule says you can assault-move if you haven't charged), you make the assault-move instead of charging.

In this case, you can only do it on your turn, and you can only do it if you're not locked in combat. The only difference between this and the way most people play is that we're officially deciding that it has to be done before combats are resolved. Currently some people wait until after combats.

#3 - An Eldar Jet Bike cannot be selected at all during the assault phase unless it's to declare a charge, meaning you can't make assault-moves ever.

I'm sure we can all agree this isn't the case. It would make the rule pointless.

------------------

To me, this means #2 makes sense. It sets a time to move the unit, is consistent with all other instances of being unable to leave combat in the book, and gives appropriate limitations (you can only declare one charge a turn, and you're doing this in place of that charge, thus you can only eldar jetbike assault-move once per turn).

 Yarium wrote:
I'm going to sound like a broken record...

There's but 3 options:

#1 - An Eldar Jet Bike can assault-move at any time during the assault phase, without there needing to be a rule to select the unit.

In this case, you can do this at ANY time. You could do it before blows are struck, or after, in between your attacks and theirs, or even DURING an attack (oh, you hit with all your attacks? excuse me while I assault-move at any time to move away so you can no longer assign your wounds). You could do this before charges, after charges, during charges. You could do this after combat, but before fall-back, or after combat and after fall-back. You could even do this during opposing player turns, since you're saying that selection of the unit is not required.

Note, this is because you're saying you can do this at any point during the assault phase without needing to be told when to select a unit. Ipso facto, that means at ANY time, even during these surely ridiculous times. (The rules also don't say you can't do it multiple times, so I guess you can just go anywhere on the board at any time during the assault phase.)

And I thought Hit & run was kind of good on my Deff Coptas! This rule would be awesome!

How does this question go beyond the 1st response in the thread?

I don't think any movement tells you you can only do it once a phase. Reading them to be allowed to move as many times as you want is best left as a discussion for another thread.

Option one is the RAW. Nobody I have ever met, or talked to in real life or online plays eldar jetbikes RAW however. Everybody has either assumed their jump moves have the same assault conditions as jet pack infantry, or purposely house ruled so that they do

Option 2 has no basis in the RAW as the charge subphase says nothing about jump moves.

So long as you have a house rule that prevents jetbikes from jumping and assaulting it would rarely matter when the jumps take place anyways.

 coblen wrote:
I don't think any movement tells you you can only do it once a phase. Reading them to be allowed to move as many times as you want is best left as a discussion for another thread.

Option one is the RAW. Nobody I have ever met, or talked to in real life or online plays eldar jetbikes RAW however. Everybody has either assumed their jump moves have the same assault conditions as jet pack infantry, or purposely house ruled so that they do

Option 2 has no basis in the RAW as the charge subphase says nothing about jump moves.

So long as you have a house rule that prevents jetbikes from jumping and assaulting it would rarely matter when the jumps take place anyways.

The charge sub phase is the only time we are given permission to move models in the assault phase.

There is no explicit, or specific, permission for eldar jetbikes to move during any time of the assault phase, they are just allowed to move during the assault phase.

If they did not turbo boost eldar jetbikes may move up to 2d6 in the assault phase, even if they shot in the preceding shooting phase or arrived from deep strike that turn

so we are told they may move during the assault phase, not they may move any time during the assault phase.

looking at the assault phase when are models allowed to move?

the charge sub phase.

without a specific mention of modifying when models may move during the assault phase in eldar jetbikes they have to move when models would normally be allowed to move during that phase.

 Yarium wrote:
I'm going to sound like a broken record...

#2 - An Eldar Jet Bike can assault-move only when selected, and since that's only while you declare charges (and this rule says you can assault-move if you haven't charged), you make the assault-move instead of charging.

In this case, you can only do it on your turn, and you can only do it if you're not locked in combat. The only difference between this and the way most people play is that we're officially deciding that it has to be done before combats are resolved. Currently some people wait until after combats.

Nowhere in the eldar jetbike rules does it say it can only be done if you don't charge, RAW you could move your 2d6 and then charge for a 4d6 range.
Also you are ignoring how I said you can also do actions in the fight subphase while you are fighting.

roflmajog wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I'm going to sound like a broken record...

#2 - An Eldar Jet Bike can assault-move only when selected, and since that's only while you declare charges (and this rule says you can assault-move if you haven't charged), you make the assault-move instead of charging.

In this case, you can only do it on your turn, and you can only do it if you're not locked in combat. The only difference between this and the way most people play is that we're officially deciding that it has to be done before combats are resolved. Currently some people wait until after combats.

Nowhere in the eldar jetbike rules does it say it can only be done if you don't charge, RAW you could move your 2d6 and then charge for a 4d6 range.
Also you are ignoring how I said you can also do actions in the fight subphase while you are fighting.

actually, RAW, according the jetbike rules, you can move up to to 2d6 in the assault phase. you cannot move more than 2d6 for the entire assault phase

roflmajog wrote:

Nowhere in the eldar jetbike rules does it say it can only be done if you don't charge, RAW you could move your 2d6 and then charge for a 4d6 range.
Also you are ignoring how I said you can also do actions in the fight subphase while you are fighting.

Eldar and Dark Eldar Jetbikes
In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes, if an Eldar Jetbike elects to Turbo-boost in the Shooting phase, it can move up to 36". If they do not Turboboost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase.

Right there. It's not declaring a charge, but it is clearly a move IN PLACE OF A CHARGE. "Is this a charge move? Yes? Treat difficult terrain as dangerous as normal for bikes. No? Then you are using the assault-jet-move and may move over terrain without entering it."

Now, and this is important, the game can't know what you're about to do. So if you moved then charged, that sentence would imply that you would treat difficult terrain during the assault-jet-move... but the game can't know that until you've made the decision! Thus, you CANNOT move 2d6 then charge another 2d6 without violating space-time relativity.

And you're right that some actions occur during the fight subphase, but all of those actions have you select models - not units. Otherwise, each time it references a unit, it's the game saying that those units do a particular thing. Just like you don't select a unit when you make its armour saves - the game is simply instructing what happens to the models in those units. The rest of the Fight sub-phase instructs what happens to the units during the FIght sub-phase.