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Do chariot riders get hit by D6 hits from template weapons per the no escape rule?

Debateable, but the Chariot rules do not explictly state that the rider is an embarked model - it specifically states they cannot disembark, but are counted as a single model along with the Chariot. Chariots are most often not classed as Transport Vehicles, but No Escape only requires the vehicle to be Open-Topped rather than actually have a transport capacity - you could for example trigger the No Escape rule by shooting at an Eldar War Walker, but there is no embarked unit to affect.

Also, hit pools from Template weapons are always allocated to the Chariot rather than the rider (Shooting at Chariots), and the rider and Chariot are a single 'unit' (No Escape hits the embarked unit), so these additional hits would probably be against the Chariot's armour value anyway.

From a purely HIWPI angle, I would expect the No Escape hits to hit the rider, but I cannot give a definitive RAW, so I will be reading other responses with interest.

The intention seems to be that they are transports that the embarked model cannot disembark from, but by the RAW it seems like they aren't actually transports or embarked models.

My personal house rule would be that the rider gets hit by No Escape, but the RAW doesn't seem to support it.

No. The chariot rules state that all template hits must be resolved against the chariot, not the rider.

It also states that the rider cannot be targeted seperatly from the chariot

It actually doesn't state that the rider can't be targeted. In fact, it clearly states the opposite with precision shots.

Actually it does state you cannot target the rider separately. What you are reading is about hits, which is not targeting. There is a major difference between targeting and allocating hits.

greytalon666 wrote:
It actually doesn't state that the rider can't be targeted. In fact, it clearly states the opposite with precision shots.

A rider cannot disembark from his Chariot, nor can he be targeted separately from his Chariot.

"The owning player chooses where to allocate hits from shots, except in the case of precision shots, which are allocated by the firer."

greytalon666 wrote:
"The owning player chooses where to allocate hits from shots, except in the case of precision shots, which are allocated by the firer."

Still not targetting, just allocating hits.

No escape doesn't target, either.

greytalon666 wrote:
No escape doesn't target, either.

No escape only triggers on transports which a chariot is not.

And there is no embarked unit. The chariot is one unit

If there was no embarked unit, why would the rules need to explicitly say the model cannot disembark?

 Grey Templar wrote:
If there was no embarked unit, why would the rules need to explicitly say the model cannot disembark?

Because it has a dual profile, one for the Chariot and one for the rider (who is not an embarked unit). They state that the rider can not disembark for clarity's sake because in 6th edition he could disembark.

No escape triggers on open topped vehicles, which a chariot IS.

greytalon666 wrote:
No escape triggers on open topped vehicles, which a chariot IS.

Except as noted, there is no unit embarked in a Chariot.

I'm inclined to disregard anything you say because you can't even bother to read the rulebook. Half the problem with ymdc is people "memorizing" rules.

greytalon666 wrote:
I'm inclined to disregard anything you say because you can't even bother to read the rulebook. Half the problem with ymdc is people "memorizing" rules.

Ghaz is saying that, yes, you would trigger the rule, but because he doesn't count as an embarked unit, there's nothing for the rule to actually effect, therefore it becomes irrelevant. (Pardon me if that's not what you meant, Ghaz)

Parsalian wrote:

greytalon666 wrote:
I'm inclined to disregard anything you say because you can't even bother to read the rulebook. Half the problem with ymdc is people "memorizing" rules.

Ghaz is saying that, yes, you would trigger the rule, but because he doesn't count as an embarked unit, there's nothing for the rule to actually effect, therefore it becomes irrelevant. (Pardon me if that's not what you meant, Ghaz)

Correct. 'No Escape' has no more effect on a Chariot than it would on an empty Ork Trukk. Both may be open-topped vehicles, but neither have a unit embarked inside.

precision shots is not a valid comparison for no escape, as you cannot precision shot a skimmer and pick to hit embarked models. Chariots also do not embarked models, so it makes no sense as no escape deals with embarked models.

no escape affects embarked models, chariots do not have embarked models.

If someone can find a rule showing the rider of a chariot is 'embarked' then there would be a point in no escape working.

blaktoof wrote:
precision shots is not a valid comparison for no escape, as you cannot precision shot a skimmer and pick to hit embarked models. Chariots also do not embarked models, so it makes no sense as no escape deals with embarked models.

no escape affects embarked models, chariots do not have embarked models.

If someone can find a rule showing the rider of a chariot is 'embarked' then there would be a point in no escape working.

"Embarked UNITS"

The rider and chariot are one unit. The rider is not a unit.

The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot. Son are tacs and terminators. If something wasn't a unit, you wouldn't be able to issue it orders such as move, shoot, jink and so on. Seriously, do you even read the rulebook joker, or do you just make it up as you go.

greytalon666 wrote:
The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot. Son are tacs and terminators. If something wasn't a unit, you wouldn't be able to issue it orders such as move, shoot, jink and so on. Seriously, do you even read the rulebook joker, or do you just make it up as you go.

No. The Rider is not an embarked unit. Please provide anything in the rules for Chariots to back up your position without resorting to calling names and breaking forum rules.

greytalon666 wrote:
The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot.

The rider is not a unit in his own right. The rider and the chariot are a single unit comprised of a single model worth two profiles.

the rulebook wrote:A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot (see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself. However, a Chariot is always treated as a single model

 insaniak wrote:

greytalon666 wrote:
The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot.

The rider is not a unit in his own right. The rider and the chariot are a single unit comprised of a single model worth two profiles.

the rulebook wrote:A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot (see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself. However, a Chariot is always treated as a single model

As the rider and chariot are treated as one unit- if the rider is embarked, then the chariot is therefore also embarked on itself. As the chariot/rider is embarked and embarked units are removed from the table top, then it is everywhere on the table and nowhere at once- creating a quantum chariot.

Rules for quantum chariots can be found inside Schrodinger's book, or possibly outside of it, or possibly near it.

The only reason for the clause about saying the "Rider cannot disembark" is simple. Many of the older codexes at the time of this book's release still had chariots that were considered "transports" which you could disembark from. Chariots as defined by 7th are a model comprised of two models, that are treated as a single model with a dual profile. There is no transport capacity on the chariot, it's simply a single model that has two profiles and can allocate shooting to one profile or the other. I know that blasts are allocated to the chariot via the rules, but the templates I have no idea about for certain as I do not have a rulebook in front of me.

No Escape does not work against a chariot model.

 insaniak wrote:

greytalon666 wrote:
The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot.

The rider is not a unit in his own right. The rider and the chariot are a single unit comprised of a single model worth two profiles.

the rulebook wrote:A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot (see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself. However, a Chariot is always treated as a single model

Which means the rider is still a unit, which makes what Joker said incorrect.

No, it means the chariot is a unit, which is comprised of a single model with a 'rider' profile and a 'chariot' profile.

There is no way to target the rider individually, because he doesn't exist individually, just as a part of the Chariot.

As the rider and chariot are treated as one unit- if the rider is embarked, then the chariot is therefore also embarked on itself. As the chariot/rider is embarked and embarked units are removed from the table top, then it is everywhere on the table and nowhere at once- creating a quantum chariot.

Rules for quantum chariots can be found inside Schrodinger's book, or possibly outside of it, or possibly near it.

Exalted!

greytalon666 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

greytalon666 wrote:
The rider IS a unit. So is the chariot.

The rider is not a unit in his own right. The rider and the chariot are a single unit comprised of a single model worth two profiles.

the rulebook wrote:A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot (see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself. However, a Chariot is always treated as a single model

Which means the rider is still a unit, which makes what Joker said incorrect.

The rider is no more a unit than a heavy stubber on a Russ is a unit. Both are parts of a single model with profiles for specific purposes.

I'd be interested to hear how one model can be two units, considering that units are one or more models.