Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know this has probably been discussed before, but I didn't see it after a quick search so I figured that I'd ask about it.

The C'Tan have kind of become a joke since they now are so incredibly unreliable with their random ability shooting phase. Does anyone have any ideas as to how they might go about house ruling a fix for the randomness of these guys or just straight up changing them?

I'm mostly curious because I remember back when I played in 3rd ed and they were awesome and coming back to the game now, they just feel so hit or miss. If I'm horribly mistaken, let me know, but otherwise, hit me with your best ideas!

Played against a Necron player last saturday. It was his first time with the new codex. He was actually rather pleased with their powers, he found them both fluffy and strong.

You have another opinion though. I dont have any specific houserules that might help you, but maybe you could try and create a formation with a star god and something else (cryptecs or whatever you deem should have a fluffy connection to them) and have the formation benefit be that the c´tan rolls 2d6 for its powers, choosing the best one.

For instance. (I dont have much experience with 7ed necrons, so bear with me)
formation name: Master of the stargod
units: 1 C´tan (shard of nightbringer or deceiver or transendent) 1 necron overlord, 1 unit of lychguard
Restrictions: The overlord must be attached to the lychguard unit, and cant leave it during game.
Formation benefit: Command the stargod, Slave before master

Command the stargod: when the C´tan is within 12" of the necron overlord, 2d6 are rolled for its powers, the owning player chooses which one to use.

Slave before master: The overlord and the lychguards gain counter assault as long as the C´tan is within 12", the C´tan gains rage if within 12" of the overlord

That's a really interesting idea, but seems like it'd have to be tweaked since it looks way overpowered.

There is already a formation that can be taken called the Conclave of the Burning One. it's part of the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book. Pretty neat rule set, but doesn't boost the effectiveness of the powers, just makes a unit out of a single C'Tan and two crypteks which is incredibly hard to kill. Definitely a good trade off I'd say, but slightly off topic

Parsalian wrote:
I know this has probably been discussed before, but I didn't see it after a quick search so I figured that I'd ask about it.

The C'Tan have kind of become a joke since they now are so incredibly unreliable with their random ability shooting phase. Does anyone have any ideas as to how they might go about house ruling a fix for the randomness of these guys or just straight up changing them?

I'm mostly curious because I remember back when I played in 3rd ed and they were awesome and coming back to the game now, they just feel so hit or miss. If I'm horribly mistaken, let me know, but otherwise, hit me with your best ideas!

Well, first thing I'd like to point out is, as "bad" as the C'tan are now, they were even worse in the 5th edition codex. Way worse. That being said, they aren't top-tier competitive, but they are certainly fluffy, flavorful and fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Britneyfan12 wrote:
Played against a Necron player last saturday. It was his first time with the new codex. He was actually rather pleased with their powers, he found them both fluffy and strong.

I have to quote this for truth. After the bland, terrible powers in the 5th edition codex, and the OP and still bland Apoc powers for the old T C'tan, these new powers are actually all good, with special rules (Necrons with those, go figure), and they actually made all of the powers unique fluff-wise (i.e. giving the T C'tan powers an actual fluff description).

I'll have to give the C'Tan a shot and see how I like it in a few games I suppose. I have shied away from playing them because they just seemed like they weren't worth the points cost for what you get, but I suppose that they can be effective and fun.

Thanks for the comments!

Parsalian wrote:
I know this has probably been discussed before, but I didn't see it after a quick search so I figured that I'd ask about it.

The C'Tan have kind of become a joke since they now are so incredibly unreliable with their random ability shooting phase. Does anyone have any ideas as to how they might go about house ruling a fix for the randomness of these guys or just straight up changing them?

One possible solution is to reverse the order of things - by having the C'tan roll the D6 before choosing a target.

Alternatively, another solution would be to have the ability work as current but then have the C'tan stuck with that power until it chooses to roll on the table again.

The up-side of the C'Tan random powers is they all have the same range, so it's not like you have to worry about something suddenly being not a viable target. The question is just how that target will be hit, which makes it a question of utility. Obviously the best use for a C'tan is against a unit with a character out front, so that you get your value regardless of what you roll. However, I can't imagine many opponents being particularly helpful there.

On the custom rules front, I've been working on some options for Crypteks (because the inventors of the most advanced tech in the galaxy should have a couple nifty tricks), and one of them is intended as the technicians charged with guarding the prisons and restraints of the C'tan, which I translated to mean having some additional control over the thing. It replaces the Technomancer ability and costs a few points, but it lets you add or subtract one from the D6 (rolling over between 1 and 6). This doesn't give you perfect control over what they use, but does let you pick between single target and blast, for example.
The thread is at; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/650769.page

Giveing the C'tan two shots can be a decent house rule as well.

Oberron wrote:
Giveing the C'tan two shots can be a decent house rule as well.

That would be awesome.

Watch the recent batrep from Miniwargaming - Necrons vs Nids.

Matt ran both the Nightbringer and Deceiver. He ran them close enough together that the Deceiver reduced units leadership by 2 - then the Nightbringer used the gaze of death ability to wreck the guys flyrant.

So it could work well on any unit that has ld10. Average rolls on 3d6 is 9-12 vs leadership's generally reduced to 8, 7, 6, 5 - That combo at ap 2 with ignore cover is pretty good. Then you'd have your ctan attacks from each.

however this is expensive.

mr. peasant wrote:

One possible solution is to reverse the order of things - by having the C'tan roll the D6 before choosing a target

Or the beginning of the turn. It's the simplest solution that keeps the randomness of the C'tan in play, but still allows for some control of the results.

I have seen a C'Tan one shot a Wraithknight of mine on the top of the first turn... twice!

 Parsalian wrote:
I know this has probably been discussed before, but I didn't see it after a quick search so I figured that I'd ask about it.

The C'Tan have kind of become a joke since they now are so incredibly unreliable with their random ability shooting phase. Does anyone have any ideas as to how they might go about house ruling a fix for the randomness of these guys or just straight up changing them?

I'm mostly curious because I remember back when I played in 3rd ed and they were awesome and coming back to the game now, they just feel so hit or miss. If I'm horribly mistaken, let me know, but otherwise, hit me with your best ideas!

I played a game using these guys as I mentioned in the thread. I didn't find their randomness to be a factor. Running them together was epic my opponent conceded by turn 4.

I think their main goal should be to ruin MC's and infantry models in shooting. Let armor be handled by other units. Running them together was effective. Gaze of death wiped out a squad of infantry based units if their leadership is reduced by 2, leaving the two C'Tans to shoot at other targets.

if you really wanted to house rule their shooting though, perhaps you could say, roll at the start of the game for 3 powers. those 3 powers are the ones you get for the game. then you assign them 1,2,3. then you choose which power you want each turn but can't use the same power in consecutive turns. at least this way you know the kind of ctan you have rather than it being random but you can't cheese out if you get Time's Arrow and use it every turn. - it also leads to the fluff side of things in that, the ctan knows some powers, but cannot be coaxed into using the same power whenever you want.

1. Antimatter Meteor:
Range:24"|Strength:8|AP:3|Type:Assault 1, Large Blast
2. Cosmic Fire:
Range:24"|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1, Large Blast, Ignores Cover
3. Seismic Assault:
Range:24"|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 10, Strikedown
4. Sky of Falling Stars:
Range:24"|Strength:7|AP:4|Type:Assault 3, Large Blast, Barrage
5. Time's Arrow:
Range:24"|Strength|AP:1|Type:Assault 1, Precision Shots
6. Transdimensional Thunderbolt:
Range:24"|Strength:9|AP:1|Type:Assault 1, Tesla