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Hi,

This came up in a game the other night.
An enemy unit with Hammer of Wrath charged a unit, my Warboss issued a challenge and his leader accepted.

My friend wanted to do his Hammer of Wrath attacks, at which point I said they are resolved at I10 step, so after a challenge has been issued. At which point it got a bit confusing.

Does his leader make a HoW attack, and if so, how is it targeted? I presumed he would get all his HoW attacks (for charging) but only able to hit the main unit due to it being resolved after the challengers are declared?

In the end we rolled off on the options and ended up with him HoW'ing my main unit and his Character HoW against my warboss in the challenge is this correct?

Correct. The character would HoW your challenger, while the rest of the models (that are in base contact) would HoW the rest of the unit.

What if the character accepting the challenge would not have otherwise been in base contact. Is he getting an extra HoW for accepting the challenge?

HOW hits are determined at the end of the charge move. A charging character would have to be in base contact with an enemy model before the challenge is accepted to have a HOW attack at I10 in the Challenge.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
HOW hits are determined at the end of the charge move. A charging character would have to be in base contact with an enemy model before the challenge is accepted to have a HOW attack at I10 in the Challenge.

Odd, y rule states they are resolved at I10 step, by any model that charged and made base to base

Do you havea rules quote for your stance?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Do you havea rules quote for your stance?

Page 165, Hamma o' Wraf: 'If a model with this special rule ends its charge move in base or hull contact with an enemy model, it makes one additional Attack [ ]."

Page 101, Issuin' uh Challenge: 'Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, [ ].'

The Charge Move occurs during the Charge Sub-Phase. The Challenge and moving of models into base contact is done during the Fight Sub-Phase. The extra HoW attack is only granted by the charge move during the Charge sub-phase.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Do you havea rules quote for your stance?

Page 165, Hamma o' Wraf: 'If a model with this special rule ends its charge move in base or hull contact with an enemy model, it makes one additional Attack [ ]."

Page 101, Issuin' uh Challenge: 'Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, [ ].'

The Charge Move occurs during the Charge Sub-Phase. The Challenge and moving of models into base contact is done during the Fight Sub-Phase. The extra HoW attack is only granted by the charge move during the Charge sub-phase.

You might want to read a bit further in Hammer of Wrath. Specifically "This attack is resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 10 step..."

iirc models in a challenge also are counted as being in b2b.

The charge sub phase is when you determine whether or not the unit will have a HoW attack (Orks HoW bonus from formations require a min 10" move without modifers). The attack itself is resolved during the fight subphase at init 10. On page 101 and 102 it then goes to describe challenges as being declared before the fight begins, the characters need to move in base to base contact or swap with other models to make it happen or if barring all that just to simply consider them in base to base contact. So yeah the HoW would resolve during the challenge and at Init 10.

Rolling at least a 10" move, they can HOW moving 1.01" so long as they rolled at least 10. Sorry just an important clarification for people who do not play Orks(don't need them getting hammered by this formation in a less than 10" actual move that otherwise qualified; then claiming in argument "but i read on dakka it has to move 10""). The formation rule is very specific on them not having to actually move the whole distance.

Whoops! Yup they don't actually have to move the 10" just need to roll it. You are right that it's too important a detail to leave out. My bad.

No prob, i was literally just reviewing the formation a few hours before seeing this topic.

I can see you determining who gets a HOW during the charge, but clearly the challenged takes the HOW if your challenger gets to do his HOW attack.

 Happyjew wrote:
You might want to read a bit further in Hammer of Wrath. Specifically "This attack is resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 10 step..."

I never disputed the attack being resolved at I10. I said that a model only gets a HoW attack if it ends its charge move in base contact with an enemy model. If the model is not in base contact at the end of its charge sub-phase, but moves into base contact at the beginning the fight sub-phase due to a challenge, it still does not get a HoW attack. Do you disagree with this?