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Well it seems that the 40k bug has got ahold of me again. It's been at least 6 years since I've last played (just barely played 5th ed)and I have no idea what the game is like nowadays.
I have a few questions:
1. What have been the major changes in the game since 4th/5th ed?
2. which armies have changed the most?
3. What are the competitive and underpowered armies now?

Looking forward to geeking out to my favorite sci-fi universe again, cheers!

1. Formations and Lords of War have turned 40k into low-points apocalypse. They have even introduced the monstrosity of the "Unbound " army, which literally allows you to play whatever units you have, in any combination (Tyranids and Space Marines in the same army?....no problem with "Unbound")

3. Top tier are Eldar, then Eldar. Then Imperial Knights and Necrons and Imperium of Man Allies cheese, then the rest file in, with Chaos Space Marines, Dark Angels, and Tyranids pretty comfortably at the bottom of the barrel.

1. Psychic phase, hull points, overwatch, wound allocation , formations, and acceptance of LOW in regular games of 40k the changes I can think of off the top of my head.
2.I think Tau changes alot from 4th ed, but honestly the feel of most armies is the same.
3.Eldar, Necrons and some Space Marines are top tier. Under powers are Dark Angels, Sisters of Battle, and Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait you wait 5th edition sorry.

2. Necrons have changed a lot.
They're still undead robot skeletons in space, but less lovecraftian horror and more Egyptian.
Oh and they now are more than metal tyranids... They don't want to kill all the things (well, destroyers and flayed ones do, but the rest don't) and are trying to rebuild their old civilisation.

They now have personalities (well, the higher-ups do) and C'Tan are little more than Pokemon.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
C'Tan are little more than Pokemon.

Have an exalt!

Nightbringer.... I choose you!!

Sorry couldn't resist

1. Flyers, Lords of War, Fortifications, Allies, Detachments & Formations. The way armies are built has drastically changed, and you should expect to face a greater variety of units and formations that confer special bonuses to the units within them. The old "x character makes y unit a troop" system is being phased out in favour of army-specific detachments that mess with the slots available to you. You'll also often face several detachments at once, and particularly in the case of the IoM they may be from different armies. (Eg. Imperial Guard Combined Arms Detachment (essentially the old FoC with some slight tweaks) with a Baneblade joined by allied Blood Angels and an Inquisitor, who rides in a Blood Angel drop pod)

2. I'll leave this question to someone with more first-hand experience with a variety of armies, but suffice to say almost every Xenos has changed drastically. You'll also want to be aware that codices have been releasing much more frequently, almost fortnightly as of late.

3. Eldar are very strong right now, having access to strength D in several non-lord-of-war units, the undercosted wraithknight and devious Jetbike packs where every bike has a Scatter Laser. Skitarii are the hot new craze, and combined with allied Drop Pods they make for a vicious alpha-strike army. Space Marines have grav guns, and most popular lists revolve around delivering them effectively. Forge World has gained a lot of acceptance because it brings several armies (notably nids, orks and chaos) up to the level of the rest of the factions. Necrons are still incredibly durable, but you're unlikely to recognise anything else about them if you left before the 5th edition codex. The weakest army right now is Dark Angels, but rumour has it they're getting an update in the next few weeks. If your local group bans Forge World, the aforementioned three armies also suffer considerably - Chaos and Nids in particular get some really useful units that catapult them from mediocrity to a genuine threat.

If you want to catch up on the game, I recommend twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv. They have a really professional camera setup that they use to livestream high-level games twice a week, and monday & friday podcast and a wednesday q&a/hobby session for subscribers. There are probably 15-20 games stored in past broadcasts at this point, so you could easily get a feel for most armies and what is and isn't viable.

1. Fearless is now what you'd expect it to be (no extra deaths for losing combat) and psykers are almost completely different. You'll really need to read up on that one, because it's a little complex. They even have their own phase now, right before shooting.

2. Adeptus Mechanicus. It went from non-existence to existence. (Seriously, though? I'd say Dark Eldar. Firstly, just look at them, secondly, they got as many new rules as they did unit designs.

3. Top competitive armies? Necrons, Eldar, Tau. and possibly Mechanicus. That said, my answer to #1 is of course less than a reader's digest version, but another thing that's really changed is now armies have the ability to ally. This is most effective within Imperial armies, as they can all work together without restrictions, while other armies (like chaos and necrons for example) can work together, but very tenatively. They're basically just 2 enemy armies that can't attack each other in the game if allied. To see more details on allies and their abilities/restrictions, read the latest rules. The point that I'm making is that thanks to the ability to ally, I'd say that if you play ANY Imperial army you by default have the most overpowered army because you have access to everything the Imperium has to offer, which, between what is it now... Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Vanilla Marines, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Imperial Guard (now renamed Astra Millitarum due to a lost legal fight against an independent modelling company and a subsequent restructuring of the names they make and methods by which they release their new units, they came to understand what they can and can't do with their own copyright protection.) Sisters of Battle, Militarum: Tempestus Scions (Which isn't a supplement, but its own codex [supplements can't be used indepentendly]), Skitarii, and finally Cult Mechanicus (YES, EACH OF THOSE IS AN ARMY CODEX) and let's not forget the Fortifications, 100% of which are Imperial in design, and the Officio Assassinorum, while not their own codex to prevent them from preventing actual allies from being used, can be used in any Imperial Army. With all of this versatility, there is no way that, factoring allies, ANY Imperial codex lacks the ability to become overpowered. That said, some kind of need allies to pass their respective ceilings, and we refer to one of those as an "allies dex"

Thanks for the replies. Funny to here space elves are top and Tau don't suck anymore haha.
So from what little I've heard it sounds like the Psychic Phase is much like the magic phase in fantasy.
Also noticed alot of apocalypse sized units in armies. Is this because Apocalypse units are allowed in regular games now?

Gus Angleford wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Funny to here space elves are top and Tau don't suck anymore haha.
So from what little I've heard it sounds like the Psychic Phase is much like the magic phase in fantasy.
Also noticed alot of apocalypse sized units in armies. Is this because Apocalypse units are allowed in regular games now?

Kinda Sorta. Apocalypse is still a thing, but many units from the Apocalypse books have made their way into 40k as "Lords of War" units, and many new 40k Lords of War units have been added that would fit right into an Apocalypse book.

There's also the Imperial Knights codex, which allows you to run an army entirely composed of titans.

The current edition is a sandbox, allowing you to take whatever units/models tackle your fancy. It has a drive for more cinematic battles and focuses on unit synergy more than overwhelming power of single units.

Welcome back, I hope you enjoy the game!

Psy phase is like the worst ever fantasy magic phase, it's utter utter crap, it doesn't work even in the slightest sense, where as fantasy 8th actually works quite well.

 Formosa wrote:
Psy phase is like the worst ever fantasy magic phase, it's utter utter crap, it doesn't work even in the slightest sense, where as fantasy 8th actually works quite well.

Funny, I hear a lot of Fantasy players complaining about how bad 8th edition's magic is. I personally like that psychic powers are less reliable and that there's more strategy to casting them.

For the OP, I would simply go ahead and by the rulebook to read it (preferably the softback/small). While the core of the game is the same, there have been enough changes from 5th edition to 7th edition that require a lot of rethinking about how the game is played.

Formosa is right, the new Psychic Phase blows. It's nothing to do with psychic powers being less reliable, and everything to do with stopping the game to play a mini-game of Yahtzee. I greatly prefer games with no psychic sub-game than games with it...it's really just not very fun.

Gus Angleford wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Funny to here space elves are top and Tau don't suck anymore haha.
So from what little I've heard it sounds like the Psychic Phase is much like the magic phase in fantasy.
Also noticed alot of apocalypse sized units in armies. Is this because Apocalypse units are allowed in regular games now?

The distinction is basically no longer relevant. All the stuff that used to be Apocalypse exclusive, stuff like formations, superheavies, flyers, Destroyer weapons, etc is all rolled into the core rules and allowed into any game.

If you want to run a list with a Warhound Titan, supported by Eldar aspect warriors, and a Necron phalanx, that's a perfectly legal army now.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Psy phase is like the worst ever fantasy magic phase, it's utter utter crap, it doesn't work even in the slightest sense, where as fantasy 8th actually works quite well.

Funny, I hear a lot of Fantasy players complaining about how bad 8th edition's magic is. I personally like that psychic powers are less reliable and that there's more strategy to casting them.

A big problem is that there's a ton of "I Win" powers. In 40k if you don't bring any Psychic stuff, you can still win games. If you don't bring at least any Magic defense in Fantasy, you'll lose.

OP, whenever you come back, I'd be interested to know what armies are catching your fancy.

 jasper76 wrote:

snip

hey have even introduced the monstrosity of the "Unbound " army, which literally allows you to play whatever units you have, in any combination (Tyranids and Space Marines in the same army?....no problem with "Unbound")

snip

Oh right, now I can see why some people were wailing about Unbound. I thought the units still had to be of the same faction, but the FoC/CAD whatever was thrown out of the window.

 monders wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

snip

hey have even introduced the monstrosity of the "Unbound " army, which literally allows you to play whatever units you have, in any combination (Tyranids and Space Marines in the same army?....no problem with "Unbound")

snip

Oh right, now I can see why some people were wailing about Unbound. I thought the units still had to be of the same faction, but the FoC/CAD whatever was thrown out of the window.

Yeah...the real gripe I suppose is with the Allies Chart, which allows any army to play with any army. But Unbound makes it so much worse, because you can literally have a Hive Tyrant warlord ordering your Necrons (or Sisters, Space Marines, Imperial Knights, etc). what to do. Kinda stupid, although I do appreciate the freedom it gives people to do weird things.

If I let myself go on all the cool, wierd combinations, I suppose I don't care too much about it in non-fluffy games, but the penalty for fielding such an army should be much more palpable than loss of Objective Secured.

Eurgh, that doesn't really sit right!

I'm a fluff nut, so yeah... *shudder*

Mind you Tyranids and Guard can work well with fluff. Simple gene stealer infestation/mind control bug can work. Think there was an army like this a few years back in WD.

 monders wrote:
Eurgh, that doesn't really sit right!

I'm a fluff nut, so yeah... *shudder*

I am a fluff nut and fluffy player, let me tell you; I love unbound & allies/army specific detachments.

While as an ig(Astra Militarum) player I can basically make an armoured company list via CAD(2 units of vets in chimers as troops) unbound lets me yake a literal all tank army.

On top of that i can bring a sm 8th or 9th company(all assault or all devs) list via unbound, also you can add kroot merc and ork freebooters to any army.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 monders wrote:
Eurgh, that doesn't really sit right!

I'm a fluff nut, so yeah... *shudder*

I am a fluff nut and fluffy player, let me tell you; I love unbound & allies/army specific detachments.

While as an ig(Astra Militarum) player I can basically make an armoured company list via CAD(2 units of vets in chimers as troops) unbound lets me yake a literal all tank army.

On top of that i can bring a sm 8th or 9th company(all assault or all devs) list via unbound, also you can add kroot merc and ork freebooters to any army.

As a fellow fluff nut, it was 7th that kicked me out.
The idea of facing a Necron, Eldar, Nid alliance on the table with loyalist Space Marines summoning deamons just didn't appeal to me at all.

Ok. Well i betit seems the Imperium of Man is over-saturated in many gaming shoppes. How spoiled they are...
Im looking for a solid shooty Xeno list (more dakka). What Would you.fine folks recommend?

 Formosa wrote:
Psy phase is like the worst ever fantasy magic phase, it's utter utter crap, it doesn't work even in the slightest sense

Have my Exa-

where as fantasy 8th actually works quite well.

Darn.

Hi Gus, welcome back to the hobby!

If you are looking for a solid shooting xeno army then any of the top tier armies are good (Eldar, Necron, Tau). This edition is all about shooting, assault armies get punished heavily but doesn't mean they cant win (I play Khorne Daemonkin and love it).

It all depends on if you want to win at all costs or have fun and make friends.

Thanks Zirka
All three have always caught my eye, and knowing that there are formations now, that could determine my choice in army. I like to saythink I'm not competitive but I like having a stand up army to play with and maybe tinker to use in mild Tournament games.
Where would I find info on formations? Fingers crossed there is a formation for all battlesuits!

 Vaktathi wrote:

Gus Angleford wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Funny to here space elves are top and Tau don't suck anymore haha.
So from what little I've heard it sounds like the Psychic Phase is much like the magic phase in fantasy.
Also noticed alot of apocalypse sized units in armies. Is this because Apocalypse units are allowed in regular games now?

The distinction is basically no longer relevant. All the stuff that used to be Apocalypse exclusive, stuff like formations, superheavies, flyers, Destroyer weapons, etc is all rolled into the core rules and allowed into any game.

If you want to run a list with a Warhound Titan, supported by Eldar aspect warriors, and a Necron phalanx, that's a perfectly legal army now.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Psy phase is like the worst ever fantasy magic phase, it's utter utter crap, it doesn't work even in the slightest sense, where as fantasy 8th actually works quite well.

Funny, I hear a lot of Fantasy players complaining about how bad 8th edition's magic is. I personally like that psychic powers are less reliable and that there's more strategy to casting them.

A big problem is that there's a ton of "I Win" powers. In 40k if you don't bring any Psychic stuff, you can still win games. If you don't bring at least any Magic defense in Fantasy, you'll lose.

If I remember WHFB, large games were like this.

"Does the guy playing undead legions have Nagash and the Mortrarchs/cheesed out vampire lords? Y/N? If N, win. If Y, drown in free zombies."

 monders wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

snip

hey have even introduced the monstrosity of the "Unbound " army, which literally allows you to play whatever units you have, in any combination (Tyranids and Space Marines in the same army?....no problem with "Unbound")

snip

Oh right, now I can see why some people were wailing about Unbound. I thought the units still had to be of the same faction, but the FoC/CAD whatever was thrown out of the window.

They don't have to be the same faction, but there's still the Ally chart. Meaning that above combination (Tyranids and Marines) don't really work that well together. Unbound simply means that you throw FOC etc. out the window, all other rules still apply.

Sure, you can break the game with fancy / stupid combinations (multiple Wraithknights and whatnot), but you can (and always could) do the same with FOC lists, too.