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But that's the thing, the art for the MK1 was the best one yet it looks so terrible in greenstuff. Maybe he should have someone make it in 3D instead.

So sad :(

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1254454

An update with some decent quality pictures of an unpainted MKI. Unfortunately it shows up the deficiencies of the sculpt/cast even more. The kickstarter owner also lays out who designed and sculpted what within the project, confirming the details that have already been covered in this thread.

Roll on the update with the pictures of the 3D printed masters!

I asked the creator about having a 3d print of the mk1 and he said he's working on it. So if you like the Mk1, there will be a version of that which matches the concept and has a more refined look.

Wow, this has gone from a "maybe" to a hard pass. The prices and lack of clear photos were red flags, and now that we've gotten some decent ones... ouch.

The creator posted a new update
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1258341

The MK.1 3d model is ready, and the master model is being printed.

The new one looks awesome

Well thats a drastically better 3D model than anything else produced for this kickstarter. If the 3D prints come out ok, and the rest of the models can be redone to the same quality I'll come back onto this one.

 David Clarke wrote:
Well thats a drastically better 3D model than anything else produced for this kickstarter. If the 3D prints come out ok, and the rest of the models can be redone to the same quality I'll come back onto this one.

You seem to have missed this update
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1257081

Man, the quality is kind of all over - these last two look utterly amazing, though!

If the 3d prints look good these have a ton more potential. Has this person had 3d masters printed before, though, as that is a bit of an art?

 RiTides wrote:
Man, the quality is kind of all over - these last two look utterly amazing, though!

If the 3d prints look good these have a ton more potential. Has this person had 3d masters printed before, though, as that is a bit of an art?

Here are the photos of 3d printed masters

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1255065

Well, those are much better!

You seem to have missed this update
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1257081

No I did not. The Omnifex was a step in the right direction, I didn't care overly for the design is all. The 3D prints of the MK II's through IV I found blocky and lacking in detail, they really need greebling up to add texture and a sense of scale to the models for them to work for me. The new MK I render has all of those little touches that bring a model to life for me, so naturally I would hope that you work on bringing the rest of your range into line with this new higher standard of work.

 David Clarke wrote:

You seem to have missed this update
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1257081

No I did not. The Omnifex was a step in the right direction, I didn't care overly for the design is all. The 3D prints of the MK II's through IV I found blocky and lacking in detail, they really need greebling up to add texture and a sense of scale to the models for them to work for me. The new MK I render has all of those little touches that bring a model to life for me, so naturally I would hope that you work on bringing the rest of your range into line with this new higher standard of work.

You seem to think that I'm the creator of the project, right? xD
I'm his bro actually, the "horrible painter" ^^"""
There is a limit in funds which we have and the render was already a bit over it, so I completely agree with your statement about having more refined and detailed look for the models, but 3d printing at 16 micron costs quite a lot, which is wrong as I know the actual prices of the material =(

You seem to think that I'm the creator of the project, right? xD
I'm his bro actually, the "horrible painter" ^^"""

My mistake. Hello kickstarter creator brother, please please thin your paint and use washes/drybrushing in the future the results will astound. You guys just need to be willing to spend money to make money, cheaping out on your low detail masters gives a bad impression. I really admire the ambition in this project, but I fear your brother has overeached. If the budget isn't there to do high quality renders and masters of all the models he is trying to produce then he needs to take what he has and just do one or two designs at the level of potential this new MKI has for his first kickstarter, prove himself by delivering some great designs at a very reasonable price point in a timely manner and then bring in more designs in another kickstarter once he has been through the whole process and knows precisely how to best utilise his resources for maximum return on investment.

 David Clarke wrote:

You seem to think that I'm the creator of the project, right? xD
I'm his bro actually, the "horrible painter" ^^"""

My mistake. Hello kickstarter creator brother, please please thin your paint and use washes/drybrushing in the future the results will astound. You guys just need to be willing to spend money to make money, cheaping out on your low detail masters gives a bad impression. I really admire the ambition in this project, but I fear your brother has overeached. If the budget isn't there to do high quality renders and masters of all the models he is trying to produce then he needs to take what he has and just do one or two designs at the level of potential this new MKI has for his first kickstarter, prove himself by delivering some great designs at a very reasonable price point in a timely manner and then bring in more designs in another kickstarter once he has been through the whole process and knows precisely how to best utilise his resources for maximum return on investment.

As I'm done with my studies I will work on my painting, so hopefully no more embarrassments xD
About the kickstarter, since this is our first one, the first we have ever done there are issues and we are trying to fix them. Even if we don't reach the stretch goal, but just the funding goal, we will still have got back what we spent on the preparation for the project and we will be able to comeback after the fulfillment phase with another project, where there will be redesigns and new miniatures.

Wasn't one of these designs one of the fabled German mechs from Defiance games?

That is a big red flag for me. Especially since the offer from Tony Reidy to get all backers the 3d files never actually materialized.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Wasn't one of these designs one of the fabled German mechs from Defiance games?

That is a big red flag for me. Especially since the offer from Tony Reidy to get all backers the 3d files never actually materialized.

None of the mech in this kickstarter are in any way property of Defiance games, the creator and 3d modeler of "Omnifex" is Daniel Rutherford (check the campaign page), who has no connection with Tony Reidy.

I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

 PondaNagura wrote:
I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

Yes, I know this one, I have been a backer of Defiance kickstarter, but "Omnifex" is too different from law point of view, to be considered a german mech (confirmed with law specialist).

 disel91 wrote:

 PondaNagura wrote:
I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

Yes, I know this one, I have been a backer of Defiance kickstarter, but "Omnifex" is too different from law point of view, to be considered a german mech (confirmed with law specialist).

I would say it looks like a pretty close match...as in an exact match. Seems very shady to me. Who is this "law specialist" who gave you that advice? If you paid money for that advice, I'd ask for it back, because that seems like some pretty bad advice.

On a note of the 3D printed masters...they just look completely void of detail. This project is not ready for prime time, in my opinion, and I would be a little wary backing it when it seems that some of the work isn't even stuff that belongs to the creator. I'd hate to become an accessory to theft of another person's creative property...

 spectreoneone wrote:

 disel91 wrote:

 PondaNagura wrote:
I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

Yes, I know this one, I have been a backer of Defiance kickstarter, but "Omnifex" is too different from law point of view, to be considered a german mech (confirmed with law specialist).

I would say it looks like a pretty close match...as in an exact match. Seems very shady to me. Who is this "law specialist" who gave you that advice? If you paid money for that advice, I'd ask for it back, because that seems like some pretty bad advice.

On a note of the 3D printed masters...they just look completely void of detail. This project is not ready for prime time, in my opinion, and I would be a little wary backing it when it seems that some of the work isn't even stuff that belongs to the creator. I'd hate to become an accessory to theft of another person's creative property...

Speaking about "Omnifex" there is a very big difference in detail and amount of additional parts make it a standalone creation.
Legal advice was give by two specialists from SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies) and LSE (London School of Economics and Social Science) - Mina Aamir, Chima Denzel Ngerem.

Everything on the kickstarter has been commissioned for the kickstarter, all those who participated in making the models have been listed on the main page of the project, every model has been paid for. The satisfaction amount of detail depends upon the scale of the wargame you are considering. If you have any other claims please be specific.

Im going to give you guys some advice. Cancel the Kickstarter, and then once you guys have decently painted 3d prints, etc. to show, then repost it. You're going to have a VERY hard time convincing people to pledge money to this until then, especially with the exceptionally poor quality greens that are posted on the kickstarter page. Its leading some to question what sort of quality the finished product that we receive will be like, even with images of 3d prints, etc being posted to the updates.

If you cant paint to a standard worthy of display and commissioning someone else to do it is out of the question, then the best advice is to *not* paint them, but instead use a black/grey wash over the prints to exaggerate the shading, etc. and give it some definition, and use those as your display models.

 disel91 wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 disel91 wrote:

 PondaNagura wrote:
I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

Yes, I know this one, I have been a backer of Defiance kickstarter, but "Omnifex" is too different from law point of view, to be considered a german mech (confirmed with law specialist).

I would say it looks like a pretty close match...as in an exact match. Seems very shady to me. Who is this "law specialist" who gave you that advice? If you paid money for that advice, I'd ask for it back, because that seems like some pretty bad advice.

On a note of the 3D printed masters...they just look completely void of detail. This project is not ready for prime time, in my opinion, and I would be a little wary backing it when it seems that some of the work isn't even stuff that belongs to the creator. I'd hate to become an accessory to theft of another person's creative property...

Speaking about "Omnifex" there is a very big difference in detail and amount of additional parts make it a standalone creation.
Legal advice was give by two specialists from SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies) and LSE (London School of Economics and Social Science) - Mina Aamir, Chima Denzel Ngerem.

Everything on the kickstarter has been commissioned for the kickstarter, all those who participated in making the models have been listed on the main page of the project, every model has been paid for. The satisfaction amount of detail depends upon the scale of the wargame you are considering. If you have any other claims please be specific.

Extra parts and a couple of changed details an original creation does not make... The credentials of the folks you list sounds pretty shaky, as well. If you were to say that you consulted an IP lawyer from a law firm on this, I would say you might have a shot...but you listed off a couple of folks from institutes that seem to have nothing with IP Law. I could be wrong on this, but that is what it appears to be.

I agree with chaos above...the campaign should be canceled. This really isn't ready for the world (in reference to the presentation of your product), and you're opening yourselves up to a potential legal battle with some of your work. You might have a bunch of models already cast, but cutting your losses now might be better than possibly getting dragged into court.

 spectreoneone wrote:

 disel91 wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 disel91 wrote:

 PondaNagura wrote:
I believe he meant that this, mainly the bipedal version on the right being a 3d model of this:

found as a stretch goal in a Defiance Games kickstarter.

Yes, I know this one, I have been a backer of Defiance kickstarter, but "Omnifex" is too different from law point of view, to be considered a german mech (confirmed with law specialist).

I would say it looks like a pretty close match...as in an exact match. Seems very shady to me. Who is this "law specialist" who gave you that advice? If you paid money for that advice, I'd ask for it back, because that seems like some pretty bad advice.

On a note of the 3D printed masters...they just look completely void of detail. This project is not ready for prime time, in my opinion, and I would be a little wary backing it when it seems that some of the work isn't even stuff that belongs to the creator. I'd hate to become an accessory to theft of another person's creative property...

Speaking about "Omnifex" there is a very big difference in detail and amount of additional parts make it a standalone creation.
Legal advice was give by two specialists from SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies) and LSE (London School of Economics and Social Science) - Mina Aamir, Chima Denzel Ngerem.

Everything on the kickstarter has been commissioned for the kickstarter, all those who participated in making the models have been listed on the main page of the project, every model has been paid for. The satisfaction amount of detail depends upon the scale of the wargame you are considering. If you have any other claims please be specific.

Extra parts and a couple of changed details an original creation does not make... The credentials of the folks you list sounds pretty shaky, as well. If you were to say that you consulted an IP lawyer from a law firm on this, I would say you might have a shot...but you listed off a couple of folks from institutes that seem to have nothing with IP Law. I could be wrong on this, but that is what it appears to be.

I agree with chaos above...the campaign should be canceled. This really isn't ready for the world (in reference to the presentation of your product), and you're opening yourselves up to a potential legal battle with some of your work. You might have a bunch of models already cast, but cutting your losses now might be better than possibly getting dragged into court.

We will do something about "Omnifex", but everything else in the kickstarter seems more or less ok, so I don't see a reason to cancel it right now.

Hi guys!

A new update and a new miniature!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1262168

Just a suggestion.. adding stretch goals prior to reaching actual funding is a good way to bankrupt yourself. You're causing the production cost to balloon. I'm not sure how much research was done on material, shipping, casting, etc.. but the budget on this is super low to the point of not seeming realistic.

 MLaw wrote:
Just a suggestion.. adding stretch goals prior to reaching actual funding is a good way to bankrupt yourself. You're causing the production cost to balloon. I'm not sure how much research was done on material, shipping, casting, etc.. but the budget on this is super low to the point of not seeming realistic.

With the changes we made what little profit there was will evaporate, but the project will not be bankrupt. Your commentary however is quite discouraging to people, so they might not feel safe about it. I realise you are sceptical, but as a person who endured problematic kickstarters I'm going to make sure it is ok.
There are projects which had more than one stretch goal before they became successful, this one has only one, and if it is not reached no one will lose anything. The budget includes the design costs, casting, 3d printing and shipping. We had a number of casting options and this one is the best in casting price/quality aspect.

My comment was not meant as anything other than advice. As someone who is still waiting on a Salamander from the Rangers Project among other delayed campaigns, I was attempting to point something out that first time kickstarters tend to forget and overlook. Likewise, shipping has caused a few successful campaigns into failures. Best of luck to you.

 MLaw wrote:
I'm not pulling my pledge or anything (yet) but I'd reallllllly like to see good images of the Mk1 without paint.

As to the designs.. yeah..those are pretty familiar designs but I think it is more that if you look at a lot of design blogs and stuff, these are the silhouettes the concept artists are leaning towards. They're watching GiTS or whatever, deciding that it'd be cool to have a model like x y or z.. then going after a similar aesthetic. To call foul on that, it would need to be IDENTICAL to the original.

Which.. is another thing. People back Zombicide which blatantly rips off everything along with lots of other campaigns.. but one like this comes along and people get worked up.. I'm not saying it's completely off-base, just that it seems like a bit of a double standard.

There are pics of the components for the MK1 on their Kickstarter Updates page here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635635848/darkpmc-54mm-mechsuits/posts/1254454

They look just as bad.

Yeah, he's having it remastered from 3d prints this time.. they mentioned that a bit back.

I didn't want to say it but I did pull my backing in favor of the White Dragon KS. Because reasons and oh yeah Fiddler.. I've wanted one of those for a loooong time.

 MLaw wrote:
Yeah, he's having it remastered from 3d prints this time.. they mentioned that a bit back.

I didn't want to say it but I did pull my backing in favor of the White Dragon KS. Because reasons and oh yeah Fiddler.. I've wanted one of those for a loooong time.

I'm not saying you are totally wrong, I understand the advice and thank you for giving it.
We are trying to fix and fixing the mistakes you pointed out, but me and my bro are not a miniatures company , so we are having money issues with other things you are pointing out. Once this is done, we will try to prepare for any project we might do in the future, with the mistakes we made in mind.

Funny thing I noticed, both of us are waiting for Salamander Mechs and both of us supported the White Dragon KS because of Fiddler. Hope White Dragon actually turns out to be ok, cause Chris Gotcher is reminding me of Tony.

Oh and if by any chance someone gets hold of Alex Iglesias (http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com) please, pretty please tell him that me and my bro are willing to pay him the commission price for both the German Mech and the Hardsuit. Some people from the Hardsuit KS project have been asking for that as well.