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I tried out my first batch of P3 paints this week, about 10 colors from the range to go with my collection of Citadel & Vallejo Game Air paints.

I've been massively impressed with them. The paint never requires shaking, is outstanding value, typically isn't as thick straight out of the pot as Citadel paints but has excellent coverage, and the range contains a bunch of eye-catching unique colors. They feel really nice to paint with and their consistency before mixing seems "just right".
The pots are the same as those of the original Citadel paints I used to paint with back in the 90s so there's a bit of the nostalgia there, though I've transferred the paint into plastic eyedropper bottles bought from ebay since I find Vallejo-style squeeze bottles much more convenient for use with my wet palette. Even so its worth mentioning the P3 pots are a massive upgrade over the newer ones used by GW which are pretty lackluster.

Unfortunately the P3 range of colors isn't terribly large but I do see myself owning the entire set before long. I suspect with skillful mixing the P3 range would be enough to produce amazing results on their own, and these paints are so awesome that I love the idea of giving it a try. After saying that there are colors from other ranges that'd be almost impossible to replicate so I don't see myself going that path, but have begun to appreciate why some miniature painters do.

Had one bottle of Carnal Pink separate on me.
Was curdled or semi dried before I cracked the seal.
Other than that. No issues.

I am thinking of switching to P3 from Vallejo.

I have found the few P3 paints I have bought (Black, Red, Violet, and a flesh tone I cannot recall the name of) to be superior to the Vallejo analogues.

Plus, I have been losing my attraction to dropper bottles.

We will see if that changes now that I have a Real Wet-Palette, which I notice has changed considerably some problems I had been having.

MB

P3 do work real well even with airbrushes. The paint consistency always seem smooth.

Granted they do not have the color selection of Citadel or Vallejo but for key colors or for mixing colors they are awesome.

Jack Bone, Menoth White Highlight, Sanguine Base and Exile blue are the must own of that line.

There are lots of P3 paints that I really like. The line as a whole is terrific, and I would be so happy if they would only make more colors, especially the ones that are boring and close-to-colorwheel. I also really like the pots. They're the same as forgeworld pots, by the way, and like you say, they are much better than 2011+ GW pots (the ones with the tab).

Some of the metallic colors are also different, in a good way. My biggest problem, really, is that I still want the "standard" colors, and I'm too lazy/go through too many models to mix them.

The one things that makes it slightly harder to use as a supplement to Vallejo/citadel is that it has a different finish to it, so I must be selective where I use P3. As opposed to Vallejo/Citadel, where I can interchange it anywhere (but not the airbrush stuff, which also comes out more satiny).

Also, remember that some stores discount P3 paints!

@minimachine - I would still shake those P3 bottles

@Talys: it's funny, i was just thinking about you wanting more P3 colors two nights ago...
i was painting with a P3 color that i had never used before, Murderous Magenta, and realized that there are at least a dozen colors from the line that i haven't ever used...
even though i always try a new approach to a scheme between every different project, i am still discovering new combos and paints in the P3 line, even after ten years of using them...

of course, i am always traveling, so all my supplies have to fit in a little Art Bin in my pack...
i don't even want to think about carting three whole lines of paint around the world...
between paints and surfboards, i always look like a Sherpa hauling all my luggage around...

@minimachine: good to hear you like them...
a couple of the metalics have a habit of separating, and require a lot of shaking before use, but most of the flat colors just need a quick little shake and they are good to go...

cheers
jah

Maybe it's be cause I started out with P3s but I've moved away from them and tend to like Vallejo, Reaper, and Army Painter more. But I think it's mostly because of the 3 being in droppers rather than pots like P3.

I have heard some great things about the entire P3 line.

I have used their wet pallet and a few of their brushes and have been less than impressed.

I really want to like the wet pallet, but I can't, just too different.

The brushes were a bit to top heavy, with the handle to thin, and couldn't hold a tip IMHO.

I would feel inclined to pick up some P3 paints, but I have no local shop that sells then, and don't want to learn the new "language" of that paint range.

happy wargaming,

-Mikey

djphranq wrote:
Maybe it's be cause I started out with P3s but I've moved away from them and tend to like Vallejo, Reaper, and Army Painter more. But I think it's mostly because of the 3 being in droppers rather than pots like P3.

I use these dropper bottles djphrang, and find they're far more convenient than the GW or P3 pots which require me to scoop paint out of the pot with a brush in quantities that are more difficult to measure. I even decant my Game Air paints into these as the bottles are half the size of Vallejo's and take up less space, and it satisfies me seeing every paint in my collection in the same type of container.
My only complaint is the tendency for some paints to leak from the opening when shaken. This only happens with colors that are of very runny consistency, typically the brightest and most saturated. Mostly VGA in my case and none of the GW which are naturally thicker.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50PCS-10ml-Empty-Plastic-Squeezable-Dropper-Bottles-Eye-Liquid-Dropper-Sample-/161320314672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item258f70a730

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Talys: it's funny, i was just thinking about you wanting more P3 colors two nights ago...
i was painting with a P3 color that i had never used before, Murderous Magenta, and realized that there are at least a dozen colors from the line that i haven't ever used...
even though i always try a new approach to a scheme between every different project, i am still discovering new combos and paints in the P3 line, even after ten years of using them...

of course, i am always traveling, so all my supplies have to fit in a little Art Bin in my pack...
i don't even want to think about carting three whole lines of paint around the world...
between paints and surfboards, i always look like a Sherpa hauling all my luggage around...

@minimachine: good to hear you like them...
a couple of the metalics have a habit of separating, and require a lot of shaking before use, but most of the flat colors just need a quick little shake and they are good to go...

cheers
jah

You sound very contented with the P3 range jah. Thanks for the warning about their metallics, before taking the plunge on P3 paints I read a couple of reviews on them and had noticed criticism of the metallics is a common theme.
I already own most of the GW metallics so I'll probably stick with those to be honest, but also tend to wonder if I should be using metallics at all these days with NMM being such a big thing. Then again its a pretty time-intensive method more suitable for showcase minis rather than entire armies. I really don't enjoy using metallic paints though so its definitely on my list of techniques to master over the coming months & years.

Oh umm out of curiosity do you happen to have any photos of your portable painting rig? It sounds very cool and I'd love to see how you manage it.

 Talys wrote:
There are lots of P3 paints that I really like. The line as a whole is terrific, and I would be so happy if they would only make more colors, especially the ones that are boring and close-to-colorwheel. I also really like the pots. They're the same as forgeworld pots, by the way, and like you say, they are much better than 2011+ GW pots (the ones with the tab).

Some of the metallic colors are also different, in a good way. My biggest problem, really, is that I still want the "standard" colors, and I'm too lazy/go through too many models to mix them.

The one things that makes it slightly harder to use as a supplement to Vallejo/citadel is that it has a different finish to it, so I must be selective where I use P3. As opposed to Vallejo/Citadel, where I can interchange it anywhere (but not the airbrush stuff, which also comes out more satiny).

Also, remember that some stores discount P3 paints!

@minimachine - I would still shake those P3 bottles

I'm a little surprised to hear you like using P3 paints Talys and I somehow developed the impression you're a pretty staunch GW advocate. Maybe your review of their latest brush line gave me that impression.

Regarding P3 paints having a different finish than Vallejo & GW, wouldn't it be possible to alleviate this with a final layer of gloss or matt varnish?

@jah-joshua - if only wishes could come true I think at some point, though, P3 will broaden their paint line. It's such an easy way to sell more stuff. I will be a happy man when that comes.

@minimachine - I love all paints, but I do use GW more You should see my paint desk -- I have the whole GW, P3, and Tamiya lines, Daler Rowney and huge number of Vallejo plus most of Army Painter. A few Golden and some weird paints too! At my airbrush station, I have rows of thinned paints from various companies in dropper bottles (almost every color I use frequently for basecoat), and the whole Vallejo game/model air line. I happen to like GW paints, but mostly because of their colors. DEFINITELY not because of their pots (though I like pots)!

It's very rare that I complete without using Vallejo, GW, and P3 -- partly because some of my favorite paints include thamar black, cyngar base/highlight, mephiston red, leadbelcher, Balthazar gold, rakkarth flesh, Vallejo white, silver and polyurethane primers. It's almost impossible for me to paint a model without using at least 1 from each of those groups

On the shaking thing... Vallejo is the one that you have to shake to death. They settle something fierce. GW and P3 are both pretty light on the shaking for the nonmetallics, and like jah-joshua said, it's the metallics that you need to give a good shake on to make sure that it's all good to go.

One small tip -- make sure you shake P3 washes enough. The first time I used one, I did shake it (a reasonable amount, about what I shake my GW washes), but my model still came out quite shiny. For years, I thought this was normal LOL.

@minimachine: an Art Bin is just a fancy tackle box that they sell at art stores...
if it wasn't a gift from a girlfriend, i would just be traveling with a cheap tackle box, without the artsy-fartsy label...

http://www.artbin.com/en/art/site/details/8399

this is the maximum amount i can travel with:



gets the job done...

as for NMM, you can simplify it for army painting, if you want...
if you don't like TMM paint, nothing will stop you from painting an army in NMM...
just don't take it up to the level of display quality, but do a more basic style instead...

good luck!!!

cheers
jah

@jah-josua --

So efficient! I like it

I'm a "workspace junkie". Sometimes I think I spend more time playing with my workspace than using it hahaha.

If the P3 paints have some "funny colored metallics, then I will definitely have to check them out.

I need some differently colored metallics for my Orcs/Goblins, and eventually for the Thunderbolt Mountain elves (the descriptions of the gates of Gondolin, in Unfinished Tales describe seven different companies of Elves, each in a different color and wearing a different color of metallic armor (Gold, Bronze, Silver, Copper, Brass, Telperion and Laurelin, etc...). Some of the colors sounded a bit different.

MB

 jah-joshua wrote:
@minimachine: an Art Bin is just a fancy tackle box that they sell at art stores...
if it wasn't a gift from a girlfriend, i would just be traveling with a cheap tackle box, without the artsy-fartsy label...

http://www.artbin.com/en/art/site/details/8399

this is the maximum amount i can travel with:


gets the job done...

as for NMM, you can simplify it for army painting, if you want...
if you don't like TMM paint, nothing will stop you from painting an army in NMM...
just don't take it up to the level of display quality, but do a more basic style instead...

good luck!!!

cheers
jah

I think your setup is awesome jah, it must've taken you some time to refine it down to the bare essentials. Actually the whole concept of painting minis for profit while traveling is pretty incredible and one that would never have occurred to me, I think its brilliant that you can make it work for yourself.

I would like to invest heavily in the NMM technique down the track, it really does look like a million dollars when done well. For now I'm concentrating on the basics of layering, blending & glazing to update my skills from the early 2000s, gotta crawl before you can walk!

 Talys wrote:
@jah-joshua - if only wishes could come true I think at some point, though, P3 will broaden their paint line. It's such an easy way to sell more stuff. I will be a happy man when that comes.

@minimachine - I love all paints, but I do use GW more You should see my paint desk -- I have the whole GW, P3, and Tamiya lines, Daler Rowney and huge number of Vallejo plus most of Army Painter. A few Golden and some weird paints too! At my airbrush station, I have rows of thinned paints from various companies in dropper bottles (almost every color I use frequently for basecoat), and the whole Vallejo game/model air line. I happen to like GW paints, but mostly because of their colors. DEFINITELY not because of their pots (though I like pots)!

It's very rare that I complete without using Vallejo, GW, and P3 -- partly because some of my favorite paints include thamar black, cyngar base/highlight, mephiston red, leadbelcher, Balthazar gold, rakkarth flesh, Vallejo white, silver and polyurethane primers. It's almost impossible for me to paint a model without using at least 1 from each of those groups

On the shaking thing... Vallejo is the one that you have to shake to death. They settle something fierce. GW and P3 are both pretty light on the shaking for the nonmetallics, and like jah-joshua said, it's the metallics that you need to give a good shake on to make sure that it's all good to go.

One small tip -- make sure you shake P3 washes enough. The first time I used one, I did shake it (a reasonable amount, about what I shake my GW washes), but my model still came out quite shiny. For years, I thought this was normal LOL.

I think its awesome that you have such a huge paint collection Talys, and I'm a little jealous, but does that suggest you aren't a big fan of mixing colors or is uniformity and replicating results critical to you because you paint large armies?

Another thing that crosses my mind is whether its really a good thing to mix paints from various companies (which I'm already doing myself) despite their marketing material usually mentioning its perfectly acceptable. That could encourage paints to separate at lower levels of dilution in some cases.

@Minimachine - I'll take a picture one day when my desk isn't super messy

I like different paints for different reasons. It's not ONLY color, though of course some times it is. For instance, I like Vallejo silver because it's super-duper bright (much brighter than Runefang steel) and makes really nice studs. On the other hand, I like Averland Sunset and Mephiston Red, because I think it's the best-covering yellow and reds.

In terms of mixing, no I don't like to mix paints. Partly, it's because I have long gaps between working on armies, and partly, it's because when I DO work on an army, the volume can be large.

My current project is my Blood Angels -- I'm actually replacing every single model I own with newly painted ones (it's been 15 years, so these guys need love!!!); when I'm done, it will be (easily) more than 100 infantry and 50 vehicles. Since all my models use a lot of colors (20+ paints at least, on each model -- probably more like 30+, and another 7 or so for even a basic base), mixing myself up paints is just not practical. Keep in mind that I'm a big "bling" guy. I like my models to have lots of purity seals, dangly jewels, chains, studs, skulls, wings, and all that. The more bling the better!! If you think about it, even the simplest of one of those elements, like blue jewel can be a whole bunch of colors: 3 shades of blue, black, 2 shades of gold for the setting, silver to highlight the setting, and white for a dot. That's 7 paints just for a tiny teardrop. Now imagine that it's set in angel wings.. more colorage

The thing is, I like to do all those details even for the tactical marines, not just the special characters. But when I do work on a character model, or "something special" I do mix up paint colors, sometimes to get a unique color, sometimes just to get an intermediary color. But this is always on models that I won't have to make 3 or 30 more of

 Talys wrote:
@Minimachine - I'll take a picture one day when my desk isn't super messy

I like different paints for different reasons. It's not ONLY color, though of course some times it is. For instance, I like Vallejo silver because it's super-duper bright (much brighter than Runefang steel) and makes really nice studs. On the other hand, I like Averland Sunset and Mephiston Red, because I think it's the best-covering yellow and reds.

In terms of mixing, no I don't like to mix paints. Partly, it's because I have long gaps between working on armies, and partly, it's because when I DO work on an army, the volume can be large.

My current project is my Blood Angels -- I'm actually replacing every single model I own with newly painted ones (it's been 15 years, so these guys need love!!!); when I'm done, it will be (easily) more than 100 infantry and 50 vehicles. Since all my models use a lot of colors (20+ paints at least, on each model -- probably more like 30+, and another 7 or so for even a basic base), mixing myself up paints is just not practical. Keep in mind that I'm a big "bling" guy. I like my models to have lots of purity seals, dangly jewels, chains, studs, skulls, wings, and all that. The more bling the better!! If you think about it, even the simplest of one of those elements, like blue jewel can be a whole bunch of colors: 3 shades of blue, black, 2 shades of gold for the setting, silver to highlight the setting, and white for a dot. That's 7 paints just for a tiny teardrop. Now imagine that it's set in angel wings.. more colorage

The thing is, I like to do all those details even for the tactical marines, not just the special characters. But when I do work on a character model, or "something special" I do mix up paint colors, sometimes to get a unique color, sometimes just to get an intermediary color. But this is always on models that I won't have to make 3 or 30 more of

Fair enough Talys, I can definitely see why mixing colors for such large armies would be an issue!

Having different tools in one's arsenal is always better than not.

I have no problems with paint in regular bottles, as opposed to a dropper. Although I prefer tops that can be completely removed, rather than these flip-top things (I have no clue as to why they went to that style).

On all of the older paints from the 1980s, I would shake the paints, and then remove the top, invert it, and place it on top of the bottle (to keep the paint in the bottle from drying out any while I used it), and then I would use the paint in the top to work with (this has the effect of nearly perfectly simulating a wet-palette).

You can also use this method to blend colors, as what little paint of another color places in the upturned lid would usually be too little to affect the whole bottle (and if there was that worry, it could just be scooped out with a large brush).

That was the reason I stopped using Citadel's products was when they switched to caps that I could not invert onto the bottle.

However, those days are gone, and I have to work with what is available, and it seems that having some additional ammunition to work with would be a good thing.

MB