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I really just thought about this a second ago and It is bugging me. I clearly play Orks and I love my little green psychopaths more then is probably healthy. However, going over some of the costs to play them has made me think that GW is not very balanced (I was going to say smart but we already know they are dumb as rocks).

Standard troops for most armies is a squad of about 10.That means that most armies only have to buy 1 box from GW to make a maximum sized squad and play it. However, Horde armies, such as Orks/Tyrnids/IG we have a much larger maximum size for our troops choices because our troops tend to suck unless we group them together into giant blobs, for us it costs generally 3x as much to field a single squad of troops. As I noticed in another topic about assault troops, my Ork Stormboyz can be fielded in units of 30 and GW only sells stormboys in sets of 5 which means I would have t purchase 6 compared to a space marine maxing out his assault squad with 2 boxes of 5. so again 3x as many.

Where is the balance for these armies in actual price compared to other armies? Tanks? nope my BW costs about $74 which is about $17 more then the average.

Im guessing is either random or GW does this based on the popularity of the armies, since SM are so popular the prices of their vehicles is cheaper but I really have no idea.

How about grotesques? They are played in 3+ and are sold in 1s, at the price of clampack singles.

But at the end of the day, armies with more models are more expensive than armies with fewer models, so MSU will cost more. And take longer to paint!

If your guys were drastically cheaper per model than the other armies, then you'd have people asking the question in reverse: why are his plastic dudes only $2 each, but mine are $4 each?

I play Skaven in WHFB, and I definitely understand the investment is larger for a larger army. It will sure make you attached to them, though!

I'll tell the obvious:
GW IS GREEDY AS HELL! THEY ARE THE 6th CHAOS GOD!

MONEY FOR MONEY GOD! MORE CODEXES AND RULEBOOKS AND EXPENSIVE MINIATURES FOR WARGAMING THRONE!

:turns down volume on monitor:

More Models = More Money, there is no way around this, period.

But, that not the problem the problem is how GW cost their kits. Unlike most other companies that uses cost to produce to set their price. GW likes to charge based on in game use and what they think their player base will spend.

its more along the lines of what constitutes a full squad. 10 marines = full squad 30 orks = full squad

So for me to field the same troops choice it takes 3x the models and 3x the price. I just wish they would have at least boxed orks in sets of 15 or 20. Realistically nobody uses the tons of extra Nobz that come with the boyz units. in the end they just sit somewhere collecting dust.

Wait.

People who play orks but the ork box instead of AOBR orks?

....why? They're basically the exact same models just unposed, and all you miss is special weapons you'll never use. At least supplement with br boyz so you can get shootas and sluggas or burnas and Lootas.

Fact is, GW is all over the map and your greatest advantage as an ork player is creativity.

Nob models are 25$ for 5. Meganobs are 66 for 3, flash guyz are 66 for 5. Improvise dude! I'm gonna scratch build some megas this afternoon.

Battlewagons come with the bits for Mek Gunz. AOBR Deffcoptas are cheap and fantastic. Trukks are reasonable, Trukk boyz kits are a deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also "nobody uses" the nob in a boyz box WHAT?

One, he's just an extra torso, you can just call him a boy

Two, PK/Bosspole nobs are indispensable in boyz squads

Three, AOBR exists! Get 20 boyz for 30 bucks if you don't like the boyz box!

the_scotsman wrote:
Wait.

People who play orks but the ork box instead of AOBR orks?

....why? They're basically the exact same models just unposed, and all you miss is special weapons you'll never use. At least supplement with br boyz so you can get shootas and sluggas or burnas and Lootas.

Fact is, GW is all over the map and your greatest advantage as an ork player is creativity.

Nob models are 25$ for 5. Meganobs are 66 for 3, flash guyz are 66 for 5. Improvise dude! I'm gonna scratch build some megas this afternoon.

Battlewagons come with the bits for Mek Gunz. AOBR Deffcoptas are cheap and fantastic. Trukks are reasonable, Trukk boyz kits are a deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also "nobody uses" the nob in a boyz box WHAT?

One, he's just an extra torso, you can just call him a boy

Two, PK/Bosspole nobs are indispensable in boyz squads

Three, AOBR exists! Get 20 boyz for 30 bucks if you don't like the boyz box!

LOL, I have a bunch of Nobz modeled as regular boyz :-P, I also bought almost all my orks off Ebay for $7 for 10 boyz and bought a nice chunk on here for a good deal as well. I also am waiting to model my 3 BW's to modify some bits to be mek gunz, I also have 2 mek gunz aready built :-P

Trust me I know you have to improvise as an ork, im just talking about the actual costs from GW compared to other armies.

Well it's also like getting a rhino. A lot of non-hordes have transports that cost $40 a pop. But they're inexpensive points-wise.

You're complaining about a horde army costing more to buy? you knew Orks were a horde army going in to this, that slike ording 3 burgers and complaining when its more expensive then a single one.

i play skaven i bought the isle of blood seven times. sold off the high elves and broke even.

In the states a new BW from GW is 66, why does it cost you 74? Also land raiders cost more and serve a similar purpose.

Orks have lots of models but actually have some of the cheapest build options given how nearly every infantry can be built from bodies in the boyz or nobz box. Kit bashing and scratch building are the easiest and more accepted for Orks so you can turn a $15 Mr Potato head and a few sheets of plasticard into a $125 Stompa or a broken transport off eBay into a looted wagon, trukk, Battlewagon.

Orks are a horde army and so your getting a lot of models in the army compared to something like space marines (a single boyz unit on foot has more infantry models than a 2000 point grey knight army). The cost per boy is roughly $2.60 per brand new compared to space marines which is $4 per tactical marine. Go on eBay an you can get slugga boyz for a $1 per. All that being said GW prices are way too high for everything but most ork armies aren't terribly expensive to collect if you know how to maximize your dakka for your teef (biker and dread mob armies are rather pricy).

 Vankraken wrote:
In the states a new BW from GW is 66, why does it cost you 74?

Battlewagon is 66 USD. Battlewagon with upgrade sprue (aka Deff Rolla Battlewagon) is 74 USD

die toten hosen wrote:
You're complaining about a horde army costing more to buy? you knew Orks were a horde army going in to this, that slike ording 3 burgers and complaining when its more expensive then a single one.

i play skaven i bought the isle of blood seven times. sold off the high elves and broke even.

I am well aware that my ork army was a horde army when I started playing. What I am pointing out though is that for a lot of people that is a turn off because it makes you pay about 3x as much money for the same points cost. So in the end GW is shooting themselves in the foot because fewer people want to make the commitment to a horde style army because the cost is so much more then a more elite style army. Someone mentioned GK, 2 boxes of Terminators, a DK and maybe a tactical squad or a dreadnought and that's your whole army for 1,500-2,000pt games.

Let me put it another way, If ork boyz boxes came with 15-20 boyz in each box instead of 10 and they cost roughly the same I would own more boyz and I would probably have kept building my SM army that I had to sell to afford to complete my Ork Army.

There are also cheaper alternative orks in the market. Not sure about sci-fi orks, but I don't think it would be terribly hard to get some fantasy orks, stick some gunz in their armz and a few improvised armorz onto their bodies. They're orks after all, mix them with your regular boyz and I don't think anyone will be complaining.

Unless you play in a GW shop and/or with GW fanatics. Then I guess there will be complaints.

Part of this is going to be just the expense. It probably isn't much more expensive for GW to make an ork boy than a space marine. But the marine is worth more points in game than the ork.

So really you just have to accept that higher model count factions will be more expensive.

 Korinov wrote:
There are also cheaper alternative orks in the market. Not sure about sci-fi orks, but I don't think it would be terribly hard to get some fantasy orks, stick some gunz in their armz and a few improvised armorz onto their bodies. They're orks after all, mix them with your regular boyz and I don't think anyone will be complaining.

Unless you play in a GW shop and/or with GW fanatics. Then I guess there will be complaints.

Like I said, I maximized my money when it came to my orks, mostly ebay and got a good deal from a DAKKA player who quit playing orks. there was a thread awhile ago about the actual cost of your army and I went through my army and found out that if had bought everything brand new from GW or a store I would have spent something like $1,800 for my army, when in actuality I spent something like $400ish.

As far as fantasy orks go they are actually more expensive, at least at the stores, ive never looked on ebay or here on dakka. I have yet to come across someone who argued my boyz aren't orky enough

Try secondhand models from this site and the others.

Wait a second, GW 'is a modeling company' that prices their products on in game usefulness? (Scratches head)

Try playing Imperial Guard with NZ regional pricing. If you think US Ork pricing is bad, this will make your eyes water.

Buying my Skitarii force, the most painful part was buying 8 striders.

392 USD for 360 points of models. More dollars than points!

 Happyjew wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
In the states a new BW from GW is 66, why does it cost you 74?

Battlewagon is 66 USD. Battlewagon with upgrade sprue (aka Deff Rolla Battlewagon) is 74 USD

I am as we speak bits-bashing a set of Meganobs from the Nobz box.

It is going gloriously. One of these guys is gonna make an excellent Warboss.

You know, though, I really wish everything you said wasn't full of misinformation sometimes. The upgrade sprue is not by any means "necessary" for a BW-it objectively adds nothing useful, really. And have you compared the size of a Battlewagon and all it's sprues to a guard or sm vehicle? You might notice then that GW charges, for the most part, by the sprue.

Noir wrote:
More Models = More Money, there is no way around this, period.

But, that not the problem the problem is how GW cost their kits. Unlike most other companies that uses cost to produce to set their price. GW likes to charge based on in game use and what they think their player base will spend.

Most other companies follow this policy? Look at the paintball industry. I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost $1k+ to manufacture that paintball gun lol

 Robisagg wrote:

Most other companies follow this policy? Look at the paintball industry. I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost $1k+ to manufacture that paintball gun lol

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if the costs were still relatively high.

Paintball guns, at least the ones that cost $500+, are precision pieces of equipment. The costs will be fairly high even before accounting for it being a luxury good. A $1000 paintball gun probably has $700ish in production costs.

And to think after I finish forking over a bunch of money for all my Orks, I plan on getting IG/AM. But I'll see by then, maybe Spehs Mehreens...maybe. Something human'ish to put on the other side of my diorama.

If they make new plastic Steel Legion models that has squads, hvy weapons teams and commanding officers it'll seal the deal for me.

Eldar seer council formation on jetbikes. 2 farseers and 5 warlocks, all sold individually for $33 each. That's $231 for 7 models. Let me emphasize that. $231 dollars or a months worth of good food for 7 lumps of plastic.

It's worth mentioning that just today I bought a Warmachine all in one box of Cryx that includes a 35 point tournament competitive army for $115. Included with it are all the cards and a rule book. I love warhammer but PP knows how to treat their customers.

Welcome to GW's pricing model, where the cost of the model has no relevance whatsoever to its utility in its rules!

One word: Plastics! Plastics are the future! Plastics will dictate everything!

from this stand point, malefic was one of the worst things to happen to daemons….

lol.

Also, GW realized people were only using 3 tanks in their army because they were filling up the "Heavy Slot" So they made Unbound.

"Forget the FOC, and bring as many heavy tanks as you want!"
"Whats that? people are still using the FOC?"
*New codex comes out with Land Raider and Vindicator units of 1-3 tanks.
"Bring 9 vindicators and still comply with the FOC!!"

[Obligatory Sisters of Battle mention]