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 Frozocrone wrote:
That's just not true according to your Canoptek Harvest logic but by all means employ a double standard, it'll only earn you a one-way ticket to Ignoresville.

The Canoptek Harvest does not have the "Follow Me My Children" rule. A person who fields the Dark Artisan formation must obey the "Follow Me My Children" rule and it restricts what he or she can do with that formation. A person who fields the Canoptek Harvest formation does not have to obey the "Follow Me My Children" rule.

The rule you keep referencing says...

Follow me my children - All units in this formation must be fielded as a single unit, even though this is not normally allowed. Models with the IC special rule cannot join this unit.

That's it.

What units are in the formation? 1 Talos, 1 chronos and 1 haemonculus.

There are not restrictions on the formation listed.

As such, I can go into their unit entries to upgrade them - the option for extra bodies in the unit is in the entry.

Its exactly the same as the spyder in every way.

RAI is IMO very clear for both - 1 MC and that's it.

If you claim you can upgrade the "1 Spyder" to more than 1(not 1 unit of spyders like the rest of the formation) then the DE formation will get the same buff. You cant have it both ways when they are the same format and wording.

Can you add models to the Wraiths in the harvest? of course you can - but nothing in the formation rules allows it - the unit entry does.

By specifically listing 1 Spyder (or 1 talos etc for that matter) it has set a limit. If it had 1 unit of spyders while the talos still just said 1 talos I would be more inclined to agree.

I run the DA formation as intended (1 of each) but you can't deny that the spyder is either single like them or the DA formation is much much better thanks to 6 MC in the unit.

 Massaen wrote:
The rule you keep referencing says...

Follow me my children - All units in this formation must be fielded as a single unit, even though this is not normally allowed. Models with the IC special rule cannot join this unit.

That's it.

What units are in the formation? 1 Talos, 1 chronos and 1 haemonculus.

There are not restrictions on the formation listed.

As such, I can go into their unit entries to upgrade them - the option for extra bodies in the unit is in the entry.

Its exactly the same as the spyder in every way.

RAI is IMO very clear for both - 1 MC and that's it.

If you claim you can upgrade the "1 Spyder" to more than 1(not 1 unit of spyders like the rest of the formation) then the DE formation will get the same buff. You cant have it both ways when they are the same format and wording.

Can you add models to the Wraiths in the harvest? of course you can - but nothing in the formation rules allows it - the unit entry does.

By specifically listing 1 Spyder (or 1 talos etc for that matter) it has set a limit. If it had 1 unit of spyders while the talos still just said 1 talos I would be more inclined to agree.

I run the DA formation as intended (1 of each) but you can't deny that the spyder is either single like them or the DA formation is much much better thanks to 6 MC in the unit.

I am not denying anything.

The Dark Artisan rules specify that the Dark Artisan formation is fielded as a single unit so it is intrinsically different and handled differently than the Canoptek Harvest formation.

As a single unit, the Dark Artisan formation which is a single unit is specified as 1 Cronos, 1 Talos, and 1 Haemonculus. That is exceedingly clear. We lack rules to change that units composition so we cannot depart from 1 Cronos, 1 Talos, 1 Haemonculus.

The Canoptek Harvest formation, however, is a grouping of units.

The formation consists of a unit of 1 Canoptek Spyder, a unit of Wraiths, and a unit of Scarabs. Are you denying this statement? If so, please cite a rule or explanation giving justification.

As a grouping of units, we can go into each unit and add additional Spyders or Wraiths or Scarabs. Are you denying this statement? If so, please cite a rule or explanation giving justification.

I simply invoke the rules we are provided by GW to additional Spyders to the Spyder unit. Feel free to point specifically to any rule that I broke. Be specific!

The rules are entirely and unequivocally in my favor. If you feel otherwise point to rules! Yes, I will repeat, point to actual rules!

Since the formation says I can take "1 Spyder", how the heck can I take more than "1 Spyder" in that formation?

Do what I did and put it col_impact on ignore, they continually derail threads with this 'RAW' when really it couldn't be further from it.

I like letting people act silly.

OP, consider running the decurion though. If you want to run the Stalkers you'll have to go CAD or buy more models for the stalker formations.

col_impact wrote:
The formation consists of a unit of 1 Canoptek Spyder, a unit of Wraiths, and a unit of Scarabs. Are you denying this statement? If so, please cite a rule or explanation giving justification.

Sure - it NEVER says 1 unit of spyders. it says 1 spyder. EXACTLY the same as the DE formation.

The DE formation unit says - All units in this formation must be fielded as a single unit, even though this is not normally allowed. Models with the IC special rule cannot join this unit.

So all units (3 talos are 1 unit, 3 chronos are 1 unit, 1 haemonculus is 1 unit) must be fielded as a single unit, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT NORMALLY ALLOWED.

If you want it as a unit of spyders - I don't see how you can justify the position without accepting the DE formation can do the same. Hell it even gives you an exception and says its not normally allowed!

It's very simple, you only get one spyder its says one and that's it lol if you really think you can get more the that's your problem but I'm telling you right now, in friendly games no one will play you and I've Been to plenty of tournaments and all of the said you can only take one, so really you'll never get to use it lol @col_impact

 Massaen wrote:

The DE formation unit says - All units in this formation must be fielded as a single unit, even though this is not normally allowed. Models with the IC special rule cannot join this unit.

Show me the rules that allow you to add models to the single unit that is defined as 1 Cronos, 1 Talos, and 1 Haemonculus.

But your necron unit is also defined as 1 spider lol

Dman137 wrote:
It's very simple, you only get one spyder its says one and that's it lol if you really think you can get more the that's your problem but I'm telling you right now, in friendly games no one will play you and I've Been to plenty of tournaments and all of the said you can only take one, so really you'll never get to use it lol @col_impact

It's really simple. I've got a unit of 1 spyder, a unit of wraiths, and a unit of scarabs. The army entry list gives me permission to add additional spyders to the unit of 1 spyder. I do that. Simple.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:
But your necron unit is also defined as 1 spider lol

Wrong. The Canoptek Harvest is a formation that is defined as a "grouping of units."

So I have a unit of 1 canoptek spyder, a unit of wraiths, and a unit of scarabs.

This is different than the Dark Artisan formation which is a single unit defined as 1 Cronos, 1 Talos, and 1 Haemonculus.

You keep adding the word Unit to the harvest entry for the spyder. It's 1 spyder - not 1 unit of spiders. Big difference.

The only difference between the harvest and DA is that all units in the DA form a single unit while the harvest keeps them seperate. Neither limit the upgrades available to the models in the formation under restrictions.

At this point, I can only assume you are deliberately being obtuse and that this will just keep going in circles while you continue to apply double standards.

I have never played my DA as anything other than 1/1/1 and have never seen anyone try the harvest with more than 1 spyder locally because it's painfully obvious what the formation should be.

So that's me done and you on ignore

 Massaen wrote:
You keep adding the word Unit to the harvest entry for the spyder. It's 1 spyder - not 1 unit of spiders. Big difference.

I am not adding the word unit to the Harvest entry. The formation rules unequivocally state that formations are a grouping of units.



Furthermore, if the spyder was somehow not a unit on its own then all sorts of rules would break - you could not deploy it, you could not select it as a target to shoot at, etc.

So, because of rules, the 1 canoptek spyder is actually a unit comprised of 1 canoptek spyder.

Then you can't exceed that limit if it's set a 1

Dman137 wrote:
Then you can't exceed that limit if it's set a 1

I simply add spyders to the unit of 1 canoptek spyder just like I can add warriors to the unit of 10 warriors in the Reclamation Legion. The ability to do that is on the Army List Entry and the Canoptek Harvest formation has "no restrictions"

So can I add flayed ones the the formation aswell, since there's no restrictions.?

Dman137 wrote:
So can I add flayed ones the the formation aswell, since there's no restrictions.?

Now you are just being obtuse. Obviously you are required to follow the BRB rules for Formations (quoted in prior posts) which would obviously forbid adding whatever you want (like Flayed Ones to a Canoptek Harvest)