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Opinion

*Just to be clear it is my opinion and not the opinions of my peers, my views do not represent my colleagues or any people I am personally involved with.*
*also this is not about gamergate, Stop talking about gamergate shesh*

Hiya everyone, I just wanted to see everyone's opinions on this game. As someone who has studied game design for a few years and has made a few I saw this game was the cause of several controversial things. Such as it being a spree killer and getting the AO rating which is quite rare in these times.

I was hestiating at first to post anything related to the issue, hence why I waited for a few days after the games release, and actually being able to play it myself to gather my own thoughts and opinions. I often say that I can't really formulate an opinion on a game till I have played it. Once I have then I will be able to. Such as any media source you don't know until you try it.

Now I would like to share my thoughts and to disencourage people calling games 'murder simulators'. Games from my experience do not encourage players to grab a gun and go out and kill people as there are many pyschological things that have to happen. Often the most common cause of gun issues that cause people to kill others is the environment and the people around them. We have had so many studies just flat out tell us that violent behavior has no connection to media. I will in no way say that games do not desantize you to violence or anything else that is negative. It is less likely that people are actually completely effected to it where it changes that person's personality.

Games being accused of sexism or racism is often common by people who have no understanding of the game or who have not played it. (or they have no idea how tropes or writing works in general). As writing metaphors is common and you can use any color of people or sex to prove a point. And it is not racist to have a mainly northern area of a fantasy world to be filled with white people. Because you know geography doesn't have anything to do with it....

Often as a designer I just sit back and watch. And slowly change the way I do things. From changing characters to improving myself and keeping an open mind. As such when I first heard about a game such as Hatred. I originally thought to myself. "How appalling! What sick minded person would make this?" After a bit of research I came across this statement....

Hatred is an isometric shooter with disturbing atmosphere of mass killing, where player takes the role of a cold blood antagonist, who is full of hatred for humanity. It's a horror, but here YOU are the villain. Wander the outskirts of New York State, seek for victims on seven free-roam levels. Fight against law enforcement and take a journey into the antagonist's hateful mind. Gather equipment of the dead ‘human shields’ to spread Armageddon upon society. Destroy everything on your way of hunt and fight back when it's disturbed...

...just don't try this at home and don't take it too seriously, it's just a game.

The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment – we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure. Herecomes our game, which takes no prisoners and makes no excuses. We say ‘yes, it is a game about killing people’ and the only reason of the antagonist doing that sick stuff is his deep-rooted hatred. Player has to ask himself what can push any human being to mass-murder. We provoke this question using new Unreal Engine 4, pushing its physics (or rather PhysX) systems to the limits and trying to make the visuals as good as possible. It's not a simple task, because of the game's non-linear structure and a lot of characters on the screen. But here at Destructive Creations, we are an experienced team and we know how to handle the challenge!

http://www.destructivecreations.pl/

I think people need to remind themselves of this sometimes. Games are games. Sometimes they shouldn't be taken too seriously, just like books, movies, and any form of entertainment. It is a fantasy. Often when I talk about this I should also bring up this little quote:



"Ah, Sir, a novel is a mirror carried along a high road. At one moment it reflects to your vision the azure skies, at another the mire of the puddles at your feet. And the man who carries this mirror in his pack will be accused by you of being immoral! His mirror shews the mire, and you blame the mirror! Rather blame that high road upon which the puddle lies, still more the inspector of roads who allows the water to gather and the puddle to form.”
-The Red and the Black


Often we as creators and just normal people forget that games mirror society and show its ills and most times it brings up these issues. Such as the sexism and racism issue in Witcher 3. Where the majority of people are white but it is representative of the Polish population and their mythos. And it is completely fine that they do represent mainly white characters for a minority in a medevil time. Not to mention that this game has probably the strongest female characters in gaming period. Games are a mirrior of our society and show us that we have alot to improve. And saying that games need not to mirrior society and be a utopia of perfection and gender equality is just propaganda and people wouldn't listen and they would think to themselves. "Well thats great." and walk away. To opose this I bring you one of my favorite authors Dr. Suess. DR. Suess's Lorax is an example of characters who are morally gray and do things for a reason. But whether those are good reasons is up to the reader. A great message is given by showing society and its ills. It also shows the effects that bad decisions have on the world. Instead of sugar coating it. It is by telling you through the story and characters of the ills of society of how to improve society. This is in books and in movies. Games have started this and its starting to become more common. Often this is successful! People listen and people will do these things without thinking about it. Though as many of you might assume it doesn't always work.

What does this mean for hatred? Well for one Hatred is just... Well a stupid game. I mean is there any actual metaphorical meaning in a game like pacman. No. There isn't. What about pong? No. Then why are we making this a big issue? Is it because people still believe that games cause school shootings? I think so. I think people in general are afraid of things. And they will often strike at any type of thing that might be bad for children. Even though this game is clearly not for children.

If you don't want a game and you don't want it for your kids. Then don't buy it. Don't boycott it. And don't be a fool. This game won't cause anything and it is only a successful because of people trying to boycott it or censoring it.

It is in no way as violent as it was made out to be. Its just stupid. Its just an isometric shooter with you just killing civilians and cops. You aren't killing people for no reason at all but to cause controversay . You aren't ripping peoples spines out of their backs, and you aren't doing anything horrible like cleansing an entire race of people like some games..... Yes killing people in a game is terrible but. In this game it is not painted in this way and from an outside view it is horrible but at the same time the point could be made that Postal 1 and 2 were considerably worse. Nor is the game worse than Zogs Nightmare or many other games that I have Played and felt guilty over playing. This game did not and it surprised me. There was no sudden realization that I was committing horrible acts. To me these were just blimps on a screen with no character and no relation to me. They were just objects on a screen very much like how I see the demons that I slay in diablo 3.

This game didn't really hammer that idea to care for these people we are killing. We are just killing. No character development just killing. Nor did it make you feel guilty. Nor was that the goal of this game. As the authors of the game even said that the game was in no way suppose to bring any emotion it was just a stupid spree shooter. And yet the kerfuffle happened anyway.

But the most interesting thing I found was that it recieve an AO rating which is for those who don't know what that means it is usually for adult content with sex, nudity, and extreme violence.

Games like Zogs Nightmare and Postal are dramatically worse than Hatred. I believe that the AO rating is not because of the actual content but of the controversy that surrounded the game. I am willing to bet to say that it was caused by that pressure. The games content of killing civilains is no stranger to the video game world. (See Call of duty, Spec Ops: the Line and several other games.)

This game is the only game from my recent memory that has gotten it for just violence. Seeing the game in action, it plays very much like any old isometric shooter. (IE Deathwatch) Is this game really deserving of the AO rating? I don't particularly think so, and I don't think it should of caused the hubbaloo that it has caused. Infact many of my colleagues agreed it looked dumb but we didn't really think it was that bad. Infact many of us just wanted to get it just to see how bad it was. (Though I was loaned it by one of my friends played an hour or so and didn't find it that bad)

According to some people and not naming names from the games media they said that this was a major step back for gaming and that spree shooters are terrible and should never be made. And that it is sending the wrong message. And that games somehow effect people. That shock culture has long been dead. Games like hatred don't do well at all. Studies have shown that, people aren't going to play a game because you get to kill people. That is not why most people play games. Some do. And those are crazy crazy people. But that is beside the point. The majority of people do not play spree shooters because they want to. Most play it for story, achievements, or just to say they had, to prove a point to someone, or you lost a bet and had to play a game filled with anime women. Games do not have negative effects on the human mind. We have specific barriers to this. Propaganda or anything like it doesn't really effect us. But we are effected by our environments and the people we interact with. Though I won't argue media doesn't have any effect.

I think personally it is a stupid game but we aren't stepping back.

Anyway that is my opinion please take it with a grain of salt, and I won't be exactly replying to people at all on this subject. I have said my piece and I will edit it if people ask me to.

What are your thoughts on this Game and do you really think the game deserves the AO rating?

Nah, this game has less emotional impact then running down civilians in GTA.

"This isn't anything we haven't seen before"

Hatred is a game so edgy I almost bled out from watching its trailer, and even more absurdly, its provocative design is used as justification for its existence. In all honesty, it also looks rather gakky as a game.

That said, it is not sexist or racist - the 'protagonist' kills everything in his path, no matter what it is.

 Soladrin wrote:
Nah, this game has less emotional impact then running down civilians in GTA.

Which I didn't say. As I even said "There is no connection between us and the characters on the screen."

To me they are basically blimps on the screen. Nothing more nothing less.

As you noted, games like this tend to do well in a directly proportional relationship with the amount of negative publicity they receive.

Having said that, I have no real interest in it - for the same reason why I had no real interest in Modern Warfare 2, and for the same reason why I was later grateful that I didn't get Spec Ops: The Line. I'm not going to castigate someone for playing a game like Hatred, or the airport level in Modern Warfare 2, or for opening that gate in Spec Ops. But it's not the sort of thing that appeals to me personally.

Eumerin wrote:
As you noted, games like this tend to do well in a directly proportional relationship with the amount of negative publicity they receive.

Having said that, I have no real interest in it - for the same reason why I had no real interest in Modern Warfare 2, and for the same reason why I was later grateful that I didn't get Spec Ops: The Line. I'm not going to castigate someone for playing a game like Hatred, or the airport level in Modern Warfare 2, or for opening that gate in Spec Ops. But it's not the sort of thing that appeals to me personally.

Well Spec Ops: The Line. Really wasn't one of those games that did it to spark contrevorsary they were similar. But Spec Ops: The Line did it with emotional build up and character development. You weren't killing people without reason. You had a mission and you were justifying your own actions.

I think personally that not many people have that in a game. Generally I don't think people play games to kill people.

Delayed controls / input lags, lots of clipping errors, repetitive as hell, mediocre graphics. The game's pulling of a Tumblr.

Hatred is a funny case. The Dev said they set out to make a game that means nothing and that is what they ended up with. It's not really shocking, or good or well anything. In a way I think it's a missed opportunity. The game is so pointless, that I can't conjure a reason for it to exist.

A game about an actual spree killer could have had some point. A look into the situation and causes of these crimes that told you a little something about the people and society that produce them, but hatred is more a sloppy shooter with no point. It was fun getting our knickers in a twist about censorship though

Meh, it's an edgemaster game that exists simply for the sake of controversy, but there's nothing there to merit an AO rating. Although the entire rating itself is pretty silly and meaningless tripe. Oh noes, Timmy saw a Mortal Kombat fatality, now he's clearly scarred for life! Please, it's a game you bloody helicopters. If a child fails to differentiate between reality and fiction, you're the failure and the party that is to be blamed if the kid turns into a psycho.

So hand a ten year old kid GTA V or Mortal Kombat. Nothing bad will result from it besides the child having some fun for the time spent playing.

Am I the only one that genuinely fails to see the core point in this game? (bar the shock jock aspect?).

Wyzilla wrote:Meh, it's an edgemaster game that exists simply for the sake of controversy, but there's nothing there to merit an AO rating. Although the entire rating itself is pretty silly and meaningless tripe. Oh noes, Timmy saw a Mortal Kombat fatality, now he's clearly scarred for life! Please, it's a game you bloody helicopters. If a child fails to differentiate between reality and fiction, you're the failure and the party that is to be blamed if the kid turns into a psycho.

So hand a ten year old kid GTA V or Mortal Kombat. Nothing bad will result from it besides the child having some fun for the time spent playing.

Mortal Kombat X? Screw that! My kid has to EARN it, just like I did; Handing him a SNES and Mortal Kombat, and when he beats Shang he can have MKII and on.

Ratius wrote:Am I the only one that genuinely fails to see the core point in this game? (bar the shock jock aspect?).

It's the studio's first game, so they were smart and made a game they knew would stir up controversy and get their name out there. There really isn't a point to it other than that.

This is just top-down arcade shooter with zombies/aliens/whatever replaced with innocent civilians. The only thing that makes it is black PR. If you want real violence try Manhunt, not this grotlover's 'cruel' game

Can we get a "immature garbage" rating?

 Melissia wrote:
Can we get a "immature garbage" rating?

Only if we can get an "unplayable" rating for all those amazing games that find their way onto steam

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Can we get a "immature garbage" rating?

Only if we can get an "unplayable" rating for all those amazing games that find their way onto steam

Sure. Steam needs better controls.

Steam has anything but a proper control on the torrent of gak that comes flowing in through their pipes.

As for this one.. The devs are probably laughing their way to the bank with this mediocre cash-in.

Steam Greenlight needs a major overhaul. There's so much crap flooding into Steam, it's no longer fun.

Just read the synopsis of the game.



It reads like the hilariously poorly written power fantasy of one of those 90's kids who thinks that violence will solve everything because nobody can understand them.

The best thing that came out of Hatred :

I loved it.
Seriously, try it out! It is free and stupid and fun.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Games being accused of sexism or racism is often common by people who have no understanding of the game or who have not played it. (or they have no idea how tropes or writing works in general).

Ahah lol no.

 Asherian Command wrote:
These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment – we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure.

lol at the idea you have to be politically incorrect and dark to be funny. Shadow Warrior the remake did remove most of the casual racism from the original (like Lo Wang speaking pidgin English and stuff, though they kept the constant stream of joke on his name), and it was extremely enjoyable and fun.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Games are games. Sometimes they shouldn't be taken too seriously, just like books, movies, and any form of entertainment. It is a fantasy.

There is a difference between “I am not taking this seriously” and “I am giving this a free pass to do any kind of stuff because I am not taking it seriously”.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Yes killing people in a game is terrible but. In this game it is not painted in this way and from an outside view it is horrible but at the same time the point could be made that Postal 1 and 2 were considerably worse.

Terrible example. You are not supposed to kill people in Postal², Jesus.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Games like Zogs Nightmare and Postal are dramatically worse than Hatred.

Was Zog's nightmare even rated? I do not think you have a strong argument here.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I believe that the AO rating is not because of the actual content but of the controversy that surrounded the game.

The controversy is because of the actual content of the game.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Games do not have negative effects on the human mind. […] Though I won't argue media doesn't have any effect.

Good old Ash contradicting himself!

 BrookM wrote:
Just read the synopsis of the game.

Spoiler:

The plot of Hatred revolves around a man (The Crusader) who is sick and tired of humanity's existence. The Crusader grabs his AK-47 to start his "Genocide Crusade" on the streets of New York City. The Crusader begins killing all civilians and police, who are trying to stop him. The Crusader travels to the Police Station at "One Police Plaza" District to kill all remaining police officers (dubbed "Human Shields" due to the police trying to protect civilians). After killing all the "Human Shields", The Crusader plans to ambush all the reinforcements coming to him in the sewers. A full team of S.W.A.T. officers arrive, with The Crusader ruthlessly killing them all. After exiting the sewers, The Crusader comes across an armed hipster who fires at him at the announcement ride. The Crusader returns fire, and leaves by hijacking a train.

During the Train ride, The Crusader discovers there is a nuclear power plant in New Jersey, he begins to slaughter everyone on board, including an armed Mafia, and the train operator (who did not notice that he was behind him). The S.W.A.T teams arrives and exchanges fire with The Crusader. The Crusader then leaves by hijacking an armed S.W.A.T. van.

The Crusader then begins to slaughter people in the train station and Chinatown. He begins to slaughter all Triads Mafia, including civilians in the process. Meanwhile spreading the bloodshed, The Crusader discovers the Military are now hunting him down. The Crusader heads straight Downtown to investigate the gathering crowd.

Arriving Downtown with a Flamethrower, The Crusader discovers that a politician named José Morales has gathered all remaining human population. He also discovers that José was the one who brought the military to go after him. After slaughtering everyone, The Crusader leaves for the Military station on foot to procure explosives for use in the Nuclear Plant.

The Crusader arrives at the military base at Fort Oconor by the West Gate. The Crusader slaughters every soldier in the base and the military is completely overwhelmed. The Crusader remarks that he has succeeded in being a "One Man Army" by eliminating all military opposition. The Crusader exits Fort Oconor with C4 charges, and heads to the Nuclear Plant in New Jersey.

In the ending, The Crusader storms the nuclear power plant with the intention of overloading the reactor, and destroying the rest of the city. After entering the code (666), he is attacked by a group of soldiers, and gleefully accepts his fate while laughing maniacally. With his dying breath, he activates the trigger, wondering if the explosives will work. After the explosion destroys the city, the posthumous voice of The Crusader scoffs "Well, they did."

It reads like the hilariously poorly written power fantasy of one of those 90's kids who thinks that violence will solve everything because nobody can understand them.

Matt Ward - The Game

Replace "Nuclear Plant" with "Stasis Tomb" as well as "group of soldiers" with "Space Marines" and there we go, Necron fluff!

 BrookM wrote:
Just read the synopsis of the game.

Spoiler:

The plot of Hatred revolves around a man (The Crusader) who is sick and tired of humanity's existence. The Crusader grabs his AK-47 to start his "Genocide Crusade" on the streets of New York City. The Crusader begins killing all civilians and police, who are trying to stop him. The Crusader travels to the Police Station at "One Police Plaza" District to kill all remaining police officers (dubbed "Human Shields" due to the police trying to protect civilians). After killing all the "Human Shields", The Crusader plans to ambush all the reinforcements coming to him in the sewers. A full team of S.W.A.T. officers arrive, with The Crusader ruthlessly killing them all. After exiting the sewers, The Crusader comes across an armed hipster who fires at him at the announcement ride. The Crusader returns fire, and leaves by hijacking a train.

During the Train ride, The Crusader discovers there is a nuclear power plant in New Jersey, he begins to slaughter everyone on board, including an armed Mafia, and the train operator (who did not notice that he was behind him). The S.W.A.T teams arrives and exchanges fire with The Crusader. The Crusader then leaves by hijacking an armed S.W.A.T. van.

The Crusader then begins to slaughter people in the train station and Chinatown. He begins to slaughter all Triads Mafia, including civilians in the process. Meanwhile spreading the bloodshed, The Crusader discovers the Military are now hunting him down. The Crusader heads straight Downtown to investigate the gathering crowd.

Arriving Downtown with a Flamethrower, The Crusader discovers that a politician named José Morales has gathered all remaining human population. He also discovers that José was the one who brought the military to go after him. After slaughtering everyone, The Crusader leaves for the Military station on foot to procure explosives for use in the Nuclear Plant.

The Crusader arrives at the military base at Fort Oconor by the West Gate. The Crusader slaughters every soldier in the base and the military is completely overwhelmed. The Crusader remarks that he has succeeded in being a "One Man Army" by eliminating all military opposition. The Crusader exits Fort Oconor with C4 charges, and heads to the Nuclear Plant in New Jersey.

In the ending, The Crusader storms the nuclear power plant with the intention of overloading the reactor, and destroying the rest of the city. After entering the code (666), he is attacked by a group of soldiers, and gleefully accepts his fate while laughing maniacally. With his dying breath, he activates the trigger, wondering if the explosives will work. After the explosion destroys the city, the posthumous voice of The Crusader scoffs "Well, they did."

It reads like the hilariously poorly written power fantasy of one of those 90's kids who thinks that violence will solve everything because nobody can understand them.

Hence why I don't take the game serious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Steam has anything but a proper control on the torrent of gak that comes flowing in through their pipes.

As for this one.. The devs are probably laughing their way to the bank with this mediocre cash-in.

I think so too ^.^

The amount of money they have made is incredibly huge.

 Slarg232 wrote:

Mortal Kombat X? Screw that! My kid has to EARN it, just like I did; Handing him a SNES and Mortal Kombat, and when he beats Shang he can have MKII and on.

Ok, but if you make him play MK Mythologies or Special Forces someone should call DSS.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The amount of money they have made is incredibly huge.

Got to milk that GG cow .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
The amount of money they have made is incredibly huge.

Got to milk that GG cow .

What do they have to do with this?

Lets drop that topic before the discussion gets closed.


I think it was more from people who were like me just got the game to see if the rumors were true. And happened not to be at all.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
The amount of money they have made is incredibly huge.

Got to milk that GG cow .

What do they have to do with this?

Lets drop that topic before the discussion gets closed.


I think it was more from people who were like me just got the game to see if the rumors were true. And happened not to be at all.

. aGGros bang on about Gamergate more than actual Gamergaters. Its basically the McCarthyism Communist bogeyman for them.

Hatred has feth all to do with Gamergate. This is little more than a mediocre unoriginal game designed to cash in on outrage politics by being as edgy and offensive as possible. Pissing off all the right people is a quick lazy way to generate publicity. The only real merit the game has that I know of is that its physics and destructible environments look pretty cool.


I think I'll give this game a pass and just play Life is Strange instead for like...the 4th time.

The explosions look really good.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The explosions look really good.

Maybe the developers will ask for that as a box quote.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
The amount of money they have made is incredibly huge.

Got to milk that GG cow .

What do they have to do with this?

Lets drop that topic before the discussion gets closed.


I think it was more from people who were like me just got the game to see if the rumors were true. And happened not to be at all.

. aGGros bang on about Gamergate more than actual Gamergaters. Its basically the McCarthyism Communist bogeyman for them.

Hatred has feth all to do with Gamergate. This is little more than a mediocre unoriginal game designed to cash in on outrage politics by being as edgy and offensive as possible. Pissing off all the right people is a quick lazy way to generate publicity. The only real merit the game has that I know of is that its physics and destructible environments look pretty cool.


I think I'll give this game a pass and just play Life is Strange instead for like...the 4th time.

I am probably going to play the Witcher 3

And I laugh at the fact that anyone would take this game too seriously. (Hatred)

 Asherian Command wrote:

I am probably going to play the Witcher 3

And I laugh at the fact that anyone would take this game too seriously. (Hatred)

Well, people gotta bait those clicks somehow, right? Hatred helps keep food on the tables of gaming journalists. Thats one good thing to come out of it I guess.