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My improved Militarum Tempestus

WS4 instead of 3
LD8 for regular scions
All Scions have Scout, Outflank and Night Vision
Taurox and Valkyrie have outflank.
All Scions can swap their Hotshot Lasguns for Hotshot burst guns: 12” S3 AP 4 Assault 3 pinning

Would these changes make you more tempted to take Scions?

Feedback appreciated

This is not proposed rules. This is YMDC.

Arghh, my bad.
If someone would kindly move this thread to proposed rules I'd appreciate it.

WS4, is that really a buff though? With one AP- attack, they won't kill much in melee at all, and going from being hit by 3+ to 4+ by most enemies means that they stand a better chance of surviving the first round of combat. You don't want that. You want them to die ASAP when charged so that you get a turn immediately after to shoot the enemy melee unit to bits. If your Scion unit survives a round and then dies, the enemy unit can then go on and charge another of your units without being shot.

I do like the Hotshot Burst Guns, though what I'd really like is to be able to take more Hotshot Volley Guns.

Also, maybe some form of hotshot Combi-Weapons? That would fit the theme, for sure.

They need senior officers for tempestor primes, hotshot lasguns for sergeants, a point or three lower, some way to ignore cover, and cheaper ground transports. Other than that, they would be fine.

Someone mentioned in another thread that orders which affected every unit with a vox-caster would be good and fluffy.

I also think that they should only ever scatter D6 when deepstriking and shouldn't scatter at all when using the 'grav chute insertion' rule.

I also think that if they deepstrike into terrain using 'grav chute insertion' they shouldn't mishap, but take a dangerous terrain test with a -1 modifier, once for the unit with the casualty selected by the controlling player - to represent the excitable rookie who snuffs it when they drop in early on in the film.
You know; that one who really deserves it...

They should be WS4 and have hotshot laspistols and close combat weapons as standard.

Perhaps they should also have infiltrate.

I also believe that their lasguns would be better off with a higher volume of fire, rather than any sort of AP value. it also disturbs me that they have scopes and only have 18 inches of range. It seems like salvo would be good.

Oh, they should also have night vision goggles.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Someone mentioned in another thread that orders which affected every unit with a vox-caster would be good and fluffy.

I also think that they should only ever scatter D6 when deepstriking and shouldn't scatter at all when using the 'grav chute insertion' rule.

I also think that if they deepstrike into terrain using 'grav chute insertion' they shouldn't mishap, but take a dangerous terrain test with a -1 modifier, once for the unit with the casualty selected by the controlling player - to represent the excitable rookie who snuffs it when they drop in early on in the film.
You know; that one who really deserves it...

Doctrines instead of orders would be very good. and every unit who passes a leadership test gets the doctrine for that turn. Same as orders but army wide. Scattering less isn't really necessary and scattering into terrain isn't a problem cause they have move through cover so they ignore all dangerous terrain tests.

Colehkxix wrote:
They should be WS4 and have hotshot laspistols and close combat weapons as standard.

Perhaps they should also have infiltrate.

I also believe that their lasguns would be better off with a higher volume of fire, rather than any sort of AP value. it also disturbs me that they have scopes and only have 18 inches of range. It seems like salvo would be good.

Oh, they should also have night vision goggles.

They don't usually carry pistols or anymore than knives in the fluff. Counter attack and or stubborn could be handy though.

I figured army wide infiltrate would be OP so i left it as scout and outflank.

With the introduction of Scout I think Lasguns will be more effective and they'll fill a different role to the burst guns. yeah the scope are weird, i've seen cool pics of peope who have cut the ends of the scope off to make it look like an ACOG sight which looks cool.

Night vision definitely, even if the can't see in the dark without masks they're still experts at working in the dark

 SirDonlad wrote:
Someone mentioned in another thread that orders which affected every unit with a vox-caster would be good and fluffy.

I also think that they should only ever scatter D6 when deepstriking and shouldn't scatter at all when using the 'grav chute insertion' rule.

I also think that if they deepstrike into terrain using 'grav chute insertion' they shouldn't mishap, but take a dangerous terrain test with a -1 modifier, once for the unit with the casualty selected by the controlling player - to represent the excitable rookie who snuffs it when they drop in early on in the film.
You know; that one who really deserves it...

Scions have 'move through cover' they automatically pass all dangerous terrain tests. Which means they can deep strike directly into difficult terrain. It's one of their most overlooked abilities, and it makes them way more resilient on the turn they deep strike.

What I think:

Return some variant of the special Operations Rule from last book. Each Platoon must pick single option for all its elements.
Infiltrate with Twin Linked
Deep Strike with Move through Cover
Scout with First turn shrouded

Hotshot Lasgun - Range 18 inches S3 AP3 Assault 2
Give all models an additional attack so 2 for each guy and 3 for Sgt/Commander
PPM - 10
Commander - Senior Officer, Refactor Field - Commander may give IG orders to regular IG or Stormtrooper order to Stormtroopers.

Taurox Prime price reduction to 60 points.

scions should have deep strike, reroll reserves, reroll scatter, and pinning on the turn they arrive, scout, night vision, stubborn and have the orders from the tempest book and everyone would take them for the different orders and a turn two beta strike list. The Taurox should also have a point drop.

Veterans should cost 75 points be a required choice of
Camo cloaks and Infiltrate/outflank option hence catachan Devils.
Or Grenadiers with 4+ armour, +1 demo charge, and melta bombs as the other veteran load out.

In other words grenadiers are scions w more special weapons but less mobility and leadership for slightly reduced cost and catachan Devils are decent mobility but less defensive options and leadership.

Harker should be a 35pt upgrade that gives a rending heavy bolter, relentless, move through cover, junior officer upgrade, +1 wound sergeant to a catachan devil squad.

Roughriders should be beast cavalry with mtc, fleet, and furious charge, ap3 @ int on the charge lances with +1t and fnp from the genetically and mechanically upgraded mounts. Squad size of 3 at 35pts up to 10 for 10pts per model. Sergeant is ld8 and has a powersword. Bring back the special character as a sergeant upgrade and allow him to grant his squad hit and run.

The taurox either needs to be cheaper or av11 sides. Like the idea of assault hot shots, would like s4 but would be a bit op. Access to vendettas is a must for dealing with av 14, allow reserve rolls from t1 or a rule similar to drop pod assault. A senior officer is defiantly required 1 order just isn't enough, great models, I have 2k and can win but more often than not it's a loss

Sergeants should be able to give orders to their squad, with the vox letting the squad use the officers LD. Prime should be able to either call in an air strike or manipulate reserves every turn. Every squad should be able to take a medpak for 5+ fnp at a cost. Up the special weapon count to 3 per squad, and add some special issue grenades for the launcher, like rad, hallucinogen, blind, and phosphor. That solves all the problems with the Lasguns sucking and encourages big squads. With orders for every squad and special grenades at up to 24 or 2 at 12, you have a pretty tough army.

Additionally I'd let them take vendettas as dedicated transports. If you make the scions attractive enough, the limited capacity of the vendettav will be enough of a balance for it.

There are plenty of cool formations you could do too, better than they have right now. I like the idea of a formation that gives them Preferred Enemy for one unit type per game.

Give Tempestus S4/AP3 Assault 2 guns.
Give them the option to take S5/AP- shotguns with Shred.

Give them the option of specializations, similar to Veterans. Those can include a drop trooper specialization that lowers scatter on Deep Striking, one that gives a boost in CC (maybe Furious Charge/WS boost), and one that give them the ability to take Breacher Charges and EOD armor (3+ save, but cannot run/reduces cover save of the unit).

Give Tempestus Squads the ability to take Chimeras.