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About a year ago, after many failed attempts to get a regular game of Pathfinder in, my buddy and I sat down and talked about what else we could play that wasn't reliant on a groups of people or computers. We decided to get into WH40k

At the start neither of us really knew about power levels. I always liked Tau and Necrons from DoW games so I decided to get Tau because from a financial standpoint they had just released a new codex and after seeing how expensive they were I was leary about starting Necrons and having to buy a book that was a number of years old incase a new one came out.

So after we got our stuff assembled we started playing small games. I have a terrible record against him - maybe 15 wins/30 losses. He plays very fast and in your face lists. I play slower, shooting lists.
Over the last year we've amassed more armies. We both need to really like the fluff to buy armies. I have a fledgling SW force, Tau and my newest force is Necrons. He has CSM/Demons/Khorn, Nids and some Orks.

I'm not tactically that great. I have fun despite the losing record. We don't play with ForgeWorld or spammy lists(tried one game, I used the Tau Y'vahra suit and it singlehandedly ruined him - he raged hard about how cheese FW was).
...
We played monday night and I won by turn 4. He took an experimental Khorne list. As did I. No decurion, Mephrit. Ctan shenanigans, Illuminor Szeras. - all play as of course - no money for all the models.

I find that we generally argue about measuring distances and how many models are under templates. I find that he generally measures fairly loosely to the models bases and adds an few 1/8ths here and there. When I call him on it he generally flips out. As to say "how dare I call him on it since I am a power army guy." that my armies are so overpowered that he is basically at a constant disadvantage. I've never accuse him of fairly consistently moving models more than then allowed but I do ask for re-measures.

We've been friends since childhood and he's always been a hothead. I'd love to play other people but working full time with 2 small kids at home means that I can't get out to the FLGS on a weeknight to play. We don't start playing until 9pm usually so basically he my only opponent.

Anyway. He says to me "are you ever not going to play power armies?" I didn't really have a response to that. I didn't want to start an argument. I could have easily ask him why he gravitates to "weak" armies but that would have just made me look like TFG. So i tried to defuse the situation.
He really didn't like the Gaze of death ability of the Nightbringer Ctan(first time i ever tried using that unit). He said "I love how a crazy over-powered army has this unit thats considered subpar but has this crazy ability that can target anyone regardless of if they are engaged in combat or not." he spazzed when I tried to use it on his demon chariot warlord and said that I couldn't target the Herald because its a vehicle. I said that was fine...

I don't think I am TFG. I'm not going to go out and buy new Space Marines based on the leaks that came out today. 6 months ago we discussed what armies we wanted to get going forward. i said i wanted to try a more mobile army and actually try some psychic stuff. I suggested Eldar or Grey Knights since i also really love the fluff and wraith models. But since their new codex dropped I don't think i'd hear the end of it.

Ultimately it seems like he's just so mad that the shooting phase is so powerful and I have armies that shoot fairly well. But when I play Space Wolves i like WolfCav and want to assault. He guffaws at how OP stormshields are and how OP wolf cav is to his chaos bikers/juggernaughts....

Is he TFG but with a chip on his shoulder because he plays weaker armies?

What kills me is that he still wins more often than looses but still complains.

Sorry for rambling but as all these new codexes come out it feels like this type of sentiment will grow.

Anyone else having these problems or come across people like this?

He doesn't sound like a pleasant fella

Quite frankly the only way you can possible settle this is to sit him down and talk about his anger issues.

Though this is under the assumption that we are getting the whole story.

Personally if we are playing fast and loose i let go of a LOT of the silly 1/8 a missed model or whatever under templates. unless its obvious as feth. thats just 1 easy way to diffusing that nonsense in a non competitive atmosphere.

From your story he sounds like a toolbag. Especially since you play the stronger armies and he plays the weaker ones, yet he still wins more often than not. He sounds like a friend of mine who takes the cheesiest WAAC netlists you can think of and then whines incessantly if you manage to kill a single one of his units. (Once upon a time, I killed his Land Raider on turn 1 with my Techmarine's conversion beamer. He forfeited. I offered to literally give him back the tank and he said, "Nah, I'm just not feeling it anymore." He can't have fun unless he's grinding somone's face into the dirt.

In general I let stuff like the "extra inch" slide, I don't get argumentative about templates, I'm generous when discussing cover saves, and so on. But with that guy I have to rules lawyer every single thing. Thankfully, despite his high levels of cheese, I'm just a better player than him. I take great joy in diffusing his nonsense with superior play.

I do know people like this. A particular player comes to mind, actually. They claim everyone else plays OP armies, but they win more often than they lose. Everyone else only wins because of OP cheese, but when they win, it's because of skill.

See, people like this like to talk constantly about how other people's armies are OP ...because if they win against it, it's that much more glory, and if they lose, "Ah, well, he played a cheesy list."

People like this are perfect in their own mind. They never lose because they were outplayed. They are never at fault. They never fail. It's always someone else's problem. He's definitely TFG.

But that doesn't mean you aren't, too. lol I don't know you. Personally, when it comes to measuring and things in a friendly game, I measure loosely in an effort to move things along. For instance, I'll precisely measure troopes in a blob at the 4 corners of the blob, but then I'll just move the rest of the blob up within the 4 corners of what I already measured to save time. If my opponent has a problem with this in a friendly game, he's a D-bag. If my opponent has a problem with this in a tournament, I'll be happy to comply. Just means less turn time for him.

As for things like template weapons and how many models are under it, I make whatever suggestion I think is the case, and defer to whatever my opponent believes is the case. It's not like 1 model difference matters all that much. It's a game.

 Desubot wrote:
He doesn't sound like a pleasant fella

Quite frankly the only way you can possible settle this is to sit him down and talk about his anger issues.

Though this is under the assumption that we are getting the whole story.

Personally if we are playing fast and loose i let go of a LOT of the silly 1/8 a missed model or whatever under templates. unless its obvious as feth. thats just 1 easy way to diffusing that nonsense in a non competitive atmosphere.

Of course you're not getting his side. He's quite good and really puts a lot of thought into his lists and tactics. He plays competitive lists (example we played a game and he used recent winning lists for nids that utilized MSU tactics and lictors.) Honestly I don't play tournament lists or net lists. I got the idea for both named Ctan from a recent miniwargaming batrep that showed the synergy between decievers -2 leadership and nightbrininger gaze of death.

When we play we always end the game with a handshake and talk about the game. So i don't have that hard of feelings about it but its becoming annoying.

For example he loves maulfiends. he got his right up to warriors and killed them after i failed my out weapons are useless roll. Then I exploded it the next round. The same round where i killed the mauler in shooting i killed the other maulerfiend in assault with my ctan. My other units killed his bloodletters or whatever and he conceded as "everyhing is too far back to assault you by turn 5"

My main concern with his loose movement is that its always to his advantage because he's moving to get into assault. He he'll measure charge distance and if its 7.5 inches he says its a 7inch charge. Am I wrong thinking that it should be an 8 inch charge?

The charge thing is a simple fix

measure the shortest distance

BOTH agree the number needed to make the charge BEFORE touching anything

Pull off Over watch

Remeasure if needed

Roll dice.

There is no confusion.

If its 7.5 its obviously 8 inchs.

And like i said if its obvious you need to knock up side the head.

If its like 7 and 1/8th or a sneeze away then just give it to him..

You guys need to be able to get passed the he said she said stage of both agreeing distances without the salt on ether side.

 Desubot wrote:

If its 7.5 its obviously 8 inchs.

And like i said if its obvious you need to knock up side the head.

If its like 7 and 1/8th or a sneeze away then just give it to him..

You guys need to be able to get passed the he said she said stage of both agreeing distances without the salt on ether side.

This. I'm developing a crush on Desubot.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I see why. He's one of the Dakka peeps who seems to avoid YMDC, and so isn't full of vitriol.

Naaris wrote:

What kills me is that he still wins more often than looses but still complains.

Jesus, these people are the worst. They not only want to win, but want the moral victory, the sense everything worked to their plans.

The games I and my opponent finish with few models on the table are the most enjoyable, because of the tension. One-sided games are bleh (tried Decurion once, it was so flabbergasting I stopped using it).

I have a friend who is sort of like this. My group and I play fairly casually, but he really likes to take powerful lists. He also will gladly accept any leniency you give him, but is loathe to return the favour. For example, in a recent game I allowed him to go back a phase or two to use the Grimoire on his Daemon Prince twice in one game. Towards the end of the game, my wraithknight was in combat and I remembered that his shield should have caused a blind test on his prince the turn before (which possibly would have negated a bunch of wounds), but he wouldn't let me have the mulligan. He even rolled the dice while proclaiming "I wouldn't have failed the roll anyways" only for it to turn up a 6. In the end it didn't matter, as my knight killed him and proceeded to stomp its way around the table, but its still the principle.

My advice is just roll with it. When he moves slightly farther, just don't sweat it. Do the same when you move back. If he's taking extra bits for his charge range, do the same for your shooting. Who knows, you may realize that you already are taking a few liberties without being aware of it. If you want him to stop ribbing you about playing power armies, then try bringing a really powerful, abusive list, to show him what you COULD be doing, then return to what you normally do. He may end up being thankful for your mercy.

The funny part about this is you say he plays Khorne Daemonkin and Chaos Daemons. IME, I and a lot of people have found both of those armies to be excellent and when built and played well can perform at top levels of competitive play. Chaos daemons especially.

You are somewhat at an cross roads here. Your friend sounds like one of those people who are not happy with winning the game but also has to win every round and phase of every game. I have seen a lot of these people who complain because you dominate for a round or two even though they table you at the end of the game. Unfortunately if your friend plays a lot of aggressive in your face lists then you are always going to dominate him turns 1-2 with shooty armies but he will win the game unless you can do enough damage during those turns.

You might want to look into what missions you play. Score at the end missions heavily favor shooty armies and essentially force the close range player to not play most of turns 1-2 for a pay off turn 3+. This can be frustrating to a lot of players with short tempers. Try something like modified maelstorm from ITC, etc. Score as you go is just a more interactive game.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I do know people like this. A particular player comes to mind, actually. They claim everyone else plays OP armies, but they win more often than they lose. Everyone else only wins because of OP cheese, but when they win, it's because of skill.

See, people like this like to talk constantly about how other people's armies are OP ...because if they win against it, it's that much more glory, and if they lose, "Ah, well, he played a cheesy list."

People like this are perfect in their own mind. They never lose because they were outplayed. They are never at fault. They never fail. It's always someone else's problem. He's definitely TFG.

My most regular opponent is like this, he complains about how OP the Nemesis strike formation is. His army? Eldar, with DE allies for webway archon.
The point is that it doesn't matter what army you or your opponent plays, some people are just like this. You can either confront them about it and hope they change, suck it up and ignore it, or find a new playing partner.

OP, I gotta say this, I used to play people like that, and really, it's not fun. I'm gonna say this: He's being a bender. Tell him to go soak his head till he chills a little.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

This. I'm developing a crush on Desubot.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I see why. He's one of the Dakka peeps who seems to avoid YMDC, and so isn't full of vitriol.

lol I know right? That place...man, I think people forget we're playing a game here...