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So I have a question. Now that Pedro Kantor is much more survivable with a 2+ and FNP, but still good and shooty, would running him with a squad of Tactical Terminators vs a squad of Assault Terminators be a good idea? I was thinking of running him with Tactical Terminators, one of which has an assault cannon, in a Land Raider Redeemer. My initial plan was to run him in a LRR with some Assault Terminators (3x THSS, 2x LC), but the lack of shooting kinda makes that less desirable to me, though I get that SBs suck for the most part.

I guess, which of these is better.

Coming out of the Land Raider Redeemer they would have the following attacks:
Tactical Terminators:
Shooting - 4x (Str4 AP4), 8x (Str4 AP5), 4x (Str6 AP4 Rending)
Assaulting - 4x (Str8 AP2 I1), 16x (Str8 AP2 I1), 4x (Str4, AP3 I4)

Assault Terminators:
Shooting - 4x (Str4 AP4)
Assaulting - 4x (Str8 AP2 I1), 12x (Str8 AP2 I1 Concussive), 10x (Str4 AP3 Shred)

The Assault Terminators win on attack numbers, with the added fact that the Assault Terminators are more survivable due to Storm Shields. But the shooting on the Tactical Terminators is bound to make a dent in something. Prices of the units aren't much different; the Tactical Terminators cost 195 for the squad and Assault Terminators cost 205 for the squad.

The other option is to take an Honour Guard of 5 (Chapter Champion with Power Sword, 2x Power Sword, 2x Power Maul), who are both shooty and choppy, but less survivable than the Terminators by lacking an Invul save. The way they are currently kitted would go as follows:

Shooting - Probably using bolt pistols so they can still Charge. 4x (Str4 AP4), 5x (Str4 AP5)
Assaulting - 4x (Str8 AP2 I1), 6x (Str4 AP3, WS5), 10x (Str 4 AP3 WS4), 10x (Str6, AP4)

They put out more attacks than the Assault Terminators, but they aren't nearly as painful due to lower Str and higher AP. Also, considerably cheaper than Terminators at 135 pts base.

So, Dakka, which one should I choose?

EDIT: I forgot about secret option number four: Vanguard Veterans. I could kit them out with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield on two, 2x LC on another two, and a Relic Blade and Storm Shield on the Sergeant. would make for the following:
Shooting - 4x (Str4 AP4)
Assaulting - 4x (Str8 AP2 I1), 4x (Str 6, AP3), 8x (Str 8, AP2, Concussive), 10x (Str 4, AP3, Shred)

So a little different than the Terminators, but also 25 pts cheaper. A few more At Initiative strikes, which is nice. They are les survivable than the Terminators, but the Storm Shields do give them an edge against AP2 vs the Honour Guard.

Option number 5 is to attach him to a sternguard squad and let him tank wounds to help keep the squad firing at full effect. Also adds a nice combat and shooting buff.

Id go assault terminators with a pair of lcs tossed in for Simone with a faster melee than a thunder hammer.

The terminator is not know for his shooting

Vanguard are a little better at shooting but still their a melee unit trying to shoot, don't worry about how well a guy can shoot if he can carve up a wraith lord in cc like a turkey.

 ionusx wrote:
Id go assault terminators with a pair of lcs tossed in for Simone with a faster melee than a thunder hammer.

The terminator is not know for his shooting

Vanguard are a little better at shooting but still their a melee unit trying to shoot, don't worry about how well a guy can shoot if he can carve up a wraith lord in cc like a turkey.

I am leaning toward Assault Terminators. The thing is that I kinda wish they would mean better with Pedro, which the other squads seem to do. But there is no substitute for their close combat killing ability. I am going to run two Lightning Claws and three THSS.

Load him up with some Assault Centurions instead. Best of both worlds!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Load him up with some Assault Centurions instead. Best of both worlds!

Being a Fists player, I often forget that Assault Cents even exist. The model count might be a little low for survival. Also, Cents lack an Invul, don't they? Still, giving them more attacks is brutal.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Load him up with some Assault Centurions instead. Best of both worlds!

Being a Fists player, I often forget that Assault Cents even exist. The model count might be a little low for survival. Also, Cents lack an Invul, don't they? Still, giving them more attacks is brutal.

True they don't have an Invul. Throw the Lascannon shots on them and have Pedro tank the rest. For the benefits:
1. They get the most out of the +1 attack, as you just made mention of. 12 S9 attacks on the charge is pretty brutal.
2. With Hurricane Bolters + Meltaguns, you can hurt multiple targets, and the Hurricane Bolters give you more bang for your buck when really up close.
3. The models might be fewer, but they're in fewer number and therefore easier to hide when necessary.

They're plenty survivable.

Here's the combo I found. Get your GSF base in. Then take two command detachments. One has Pedro, 9 honor guard with chapter banner. Other has Lysander, 8 honour guard with Standard of Emperor Ascendant. Put both in DT raiders, as I'm fairly certain they cannot get redeemers or crusaders.

Keep both units within 12" of each other and enjoy the +3 attack bonus from Pedro and the two banners. Lysander and Pedro with 8 attacks on the charge? Ugh... even the HG have 7 on the charge with PW, 6 if you took relic blades.

Pedros bonus does not stack with the banners, in addition I think the banners also say they dont stack. Second each Cmd detachment says 1 of the following so you can only take 3 total cmd detachments.

I would look at the First company formation, take two units of sternguard and one 10 man unit of shooty terminators.

Combat squad the termies with two cyclone in one, sgt and the other 4 go with pedro.

It looks like the exclusionary language has been removed from Pedro's Oath of Rynn, so I see no reason it would not stack with a banner.

You are indeed correct, that is baller!!

If only Terminators could take a banner like the Blood Angels. Honour Guard with a Banner might be the way to go. Those extra attacks will be insane.

So I took another look at the Assault Centurions. Pairing them with Pedro and giving the Sergeant an Omniscope seems to be a crazy good tactic. The Omniscope and Slow and Purposeful gives Pedro the ability to launch his Orbital Bombardment at something and assault something different. On the charge, the Assault Centurions would get 13 Str 10 AP2 attacks. That is insane! Yes, fewer than the Terminators get, but whatever is at the other end of that is doomed. They also have more wounds than a Terminator squad, and with the Omniscope, clock in at the same amount of points(my 3/2 assault terminators are 30 pts more). They also do pack Hurricane Bolters (am I the only one that can't seem to figure out what an Ironclad Assault Launcher does?), and either the Meltagun or flamer, so not half bad for shooting. They do seem to sync well with Pedro.

Ironclad assault launcher is basically assault and defensive grenades.

 Leth wrote:
Ironclad assault launcher is basically assault and defensive grenades.

Hmmm, I don't know what to think about that. Especially if they are coming out of a Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader, so they would have grenades from that.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Ironclad assault launcher is basically assault and defensive grenades.

Hmmm, I don't know what to think about that. Especially if they are coming out of a Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader, so they would have grenades from that.

Nice if they are podding in or get charged/charge something like knights. I wouldn't rely on a land raider as much as I would a pod IMO.

 Leth wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Ironclad assault launcher is basically assault and defensive grenades.

Hmmm, I don't know what to think about that. Especially if they are coming out of a Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader, so they would have grenades from that.

Nice if they are podding in or get charged/charge something like knights. I wouldn't rely on a land raider as much as I would a pod IMO.

Meh, I have the LRC/R, I might as well use it. I don't have any Centurions yet, so it still serves a purpose with my Terminator Assault Squad that will run with Pedro for the time being. I wish there was a way to get an IC with a Chapter Standard. I kinda want to get a Techmarine to go in the LRC/R as well, keep that thing chugging along.

Yeah, I ordered a spartan just for this reason, I can't stand not having a dozerblade on my landraider

 Leth wrote:
Yeah, I ordered a spartan just for this reason, I can't stand not having a dozerblade on my landraider

Not really relavant to Pedro, but I REALLY wish the LR Ares had a model and rules. I would be all over a frickin' Super Vindicator.

I am thinking as of right now, that I am going to run Pedro with a squad of 3/2 Assault Termintors in a Land Raider Redeemer, and if I have the points, stuff a Techmarine in there as well. Being able to keep that Raider up and running is imperative. Should I acquire a squad of Centurions, I will probably run them instead of the Terminators. Probably all flamers and an Omniscope so Pedro can launch the Orbital Strike on some unsuspecting squad and go attack another one. If I did that, I could fit a Servitor in there too so the Raider is even more survivable. Probably Hurricane Bolters (FRICKIN' BOLTER HARMONICAS!) instead of the Ironclad Assault Launchers (since I don't quite get how they work, still).

What is the opinion on Devastator Centurions as an escort squad for Pedro? I know he is a bit more punchy than shooty, and Dev Cents kinda suck at punchy, but they are really good at shooty. I would probably break the bank with them on points though.

I am actual,y looking at assault cents with Pedro. He helps with a lot of their problems being low attacks, he brings solid output himself, and in a spartan or crusader there is plenty of space. Or I can throw here of them and Pedro in a pod and go to town.

 Leth wrote:
I am actual,y looking at assault cents with Pedro. He helps with a lot of their problems being low attacks, he brings solid output himself, and in a spartan or crusader there is plenty of space. Or I can throw here of them and Pedro in a pod and go to town.

A pod has the downside of spitting its contents out and leaving them there to rot while they wait for their assault phase to come around. I know a LRC or LRR is expensive, but it gets the job done by being an assault transport, if at the expense of taking a bit to get those contents where they should be. A Crusader, a squad of five Assault Centurions, and Pedro is a pretty good combination. I am leaning toward a Redeemer since I probably won't buy two boxes of Centurions, so those added four spots do nothing for me. I do also plan to put a Multi-Melta on the Redeemer for some good old fashioned Bust-N-Bake.

I was thinking for the lolz it would be funny to have Pedro run with a librarius conclave. Take them from sentinels of terra so they get the reroll tests and +1 warp charge item for a tiggy light, then give them all force axes and attach them to something like an honor guard squad. They are now all 4 attacks each, str 5 ap 2 instant death, 5 each on the charge and that is before any psychic buffs

 Leth wrote:
I was thinking for the lolz it would be funny to have Pedro run with a librarius conclave. Take them from sentinels of terra so they get the reroll tests and +1 warp charge item for a tiggy light, then give them all force axes and attach them to something like an honor guard squad. They are now all 4 attacks each, str 5 ap 2 instant death, 5 each on the charge and that is before any psychic buffs

Hmmm, that does seem like it would be pretty brutal. I am less inclined to take SoT now since Close Range Bolted Drill does not work on Sternguard Ammo. Still, the Bones of Osrak is very nice item, and it gets better with the Conclave.