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Vaktathi wrote: This was one of the things they changed (after Bioware insisted they weren't going to change anything) with the EC. In the original ending, the mass relays are shown exploding just like the ME2 DLC. With the EC, they changed the animation of the explosions to just be the "rings" of the Mass Relays.
Actually, it isn't. The relay was destroyed but only after the "shock wave" was released. The shock waves seen were the release of the crucible energy, not the exploding mass relay.
Observe how the shock waves look exactly the same as the one which comes out of the crucible, which is seen to not harm the humans on earth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/21 19:22:20
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Vaktathi wrote: This was one of the things they changed (after Bioware insisted they weren't going to change anything) with the EC. In the original ending, the mass relays are shown exploding just like the ME2 DLC. With the EC, they changed the animation of the explosions to just be the "rings" of the Mass Relays.
Actually, it isn't. The relay was destroyed but only after the "shock wave" was released. The shock waves seen were the release of the crucible energy, not the exploding mass relay.
Observe how the shock waves look exactly the same as the one which comes out of the crucible, which is seen to not harm the humans on earth.
The original ending's relay explosion however looks very similar to that of the ME2 relay explosion.
Bioware very much definitely did change the explosion animation between the original ending and the "Extended Cut" DLC, precisely because it looked nearly identical to the ME2 relay explosion, just with a different color. In ME2 and the original ME3 ending, the relays are similarly broken up and explosive, while in the ME3 EC DLC, the level of destruction to the relay, and the "blast" is far less substantial and pyrotechnic.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Was able to complete it yesterday, got the best ending with readiness at 50% on the map.. just had such a high military strength the missions were not necessary.
Still plan on having another go for the 100% map achievement, but trying ME1 on the Xbox One at the mo as I got into the preview program.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
...And I be like "Well I see hints of the Indoctrination Theory. Shepard is clearly indoctrinated".
For one: Except unlike indoctrination theory, my suggestion actually makes sense without ass-pulls, and fits in with the canon as developed as per the latest game. And two: I never stated that the Catalyst hologram itself was in the first game. Only that there were hints that Sovereign wasn't alone. Then when ME2 came about, this ended up being true-- which brings thoughts of... who leads those that we now refer to as Reapers?
I feel like you people using the term "starchild" is making you unable to actually think about what the Catalyst hologram actually is. Said hologram is nothing more than a physical representation of something Shepard has been thinking about a lot, something which impacted her greatly, so that the Catalyst AI may communicate with her. It boggles the mind that this is so confusing to so many people. Hell, this trope is so common it was used several times in Star Trek alone, to say nothing of other science-fiction shows or books.
That said, the idea that there's a centralized AI that directs this fleet of god-ships is not something radical and sudden that's forced upon the game at the last minute. Once we realize there's more than one (which was all but confirmed in Me1), it is only natural to think that SOMETHING is directing the Reapers, given their coordinated actions. Whether or not that thing is a sentient race who created them, one single god-like creature, a sort of Reaper Consensus similar to the Geth, or a centralized AI, something needs to be there in order to coordinate them.
This isn't some strange and radical idea which requires twisting and turning of the facts presented to us by the game, it's just a natural progression of understanding that occurs throughout the series. We learn the existence of Reapers in the first game; we learn more details and that there's more than one of them in the second; in the third, we fight them however we can, and in the ending of the third, their leader leader (an AI constructed by an arrogant race that turned on them in order to fulfill the exact wording of its complex programmed directives-- a common sci-fi trope, but one which can be well done, as it was here) is confronted and overcome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 00:57:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
...And I be like "Well I see hints of the Indoctrination Theory. Shepard is clearly indoctrinated".
For one: Except unlike indoctrination theory, my suggestion actually makes sense without ass-pulls,
Only if you project things from ME3 back onto earlier games that the writers of the game have openly declared was not anything they were intending at the time the earlier games were written and developed. Rationalization within-universe after the fact is ok, but it must be acknowledged that that's what it is, when they made ME1 they had zero idea of how they were going to end the series and the clues they intentionally drop in ME2 were working towards a different ending (centered around "Dark Energy") than what was eventually developed for ME3. By the same rationalization, the Indoctrination theory is not all that much further off.
Sure, the Prothean artifact doesn't look like any other Prothean stuff, but almost nothing Prothean from ME1 looks like anything Prothean from ME3 either, and the artifact certainly doesn't look like other Reaper tech you see either (and really, is an homage to the book/movie Sphere more than anything else). There was a shift in visual design and a very clear indication of a very late stage change in the development & writing process of the series with regards to ME3.
a common sci-fi trope, but one which can be well done, as it was here)
The fact that Bioware had to amend it's ending with multiple DLC's, and that there was more outrage over the last 10 minutes of ME3 than over any other videogame I've ever seen, is probably an indication that it was not so well done. If it were well done, these things would have been unnecessary.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Was able to complete it yesterday, got the best ending with readiness at 50% on the map.. just had such a high military strength the missions were not necessary.
Still plan on having another go for the 100% map achievement, but trying ME1 on the Xbox One at the mo as I got into the preview program.
Ugh ME1 man those bring back memories and reminds me how old I am now.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Was able to complete it yesterday, got the best ending with readiness at 50% on the map.. just had such a high military strength the missions were not necessary.
Still plan on having another go for the 100% map achievement, but trying ME1 on the Xbox One at the mo as I got into the preview program.
Ugh ME1 man those bring back memories and reminds me how old I am now.
It only came out in 2007
I remember it was an impulse buy for me. Was queuing with my brother in a games store it on a shelf. He said it got good reviews so I bought it
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Vaktathi wrote: Only if you project things from ME3 back onto earlier games
So you don't like mystery stories then?
A lot of things in mystery books only make sense later on in the story. But putting the pieces together from across the beginning, middle, and end of the story, they make sense in the end, when you confront the finale.
The fact that [...] there was more outrage over the last 10 minutes of ME3 than over any other videogame I've ever seen, is
Proof that the internet is full of irrational whiners?
But then again I only need to look on the comments section of any news article that has a comments section to see that much.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/22 02:08:21
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Was able to complete it yesterday, got the best ending with readiness at 50% on the map.. just had such a high military strength the missions were not necessary.
Still plan on having another go for the 100% map achievement, but trying ME1 on the Xbox One at the mo as I got into the preview program.
Ugh ME1 man those bring back memories and reminds me how old I am now.
It only came out in 2007
I remember it was an impulse buy for me. Was queuing with my brother in a games store it on a shelf. He said it got good reviews so I bought it
Thats 8 years ago.
I am in college studying video game design and designing video games. Thats a long time for video games. That was before the brown era of graphics. (or was it during err not really sure)
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Vaktathi wrote: Only if you project things from ME3 back onto earlier games
So you don't like mystery stories then?
A lot of things in mystery books only make sense later on in the story. But putting the pieces together, they make sense in the end, when you confront the finale.
Sure, but typically you're not having to string an ending to an earlier narrative that the author openly admits was not intended to lead to that ending. The ME3 ending really functions largely independently of the rest of the trilogy's story line, and no matter what your actions, pretty much the only thing that changes about the endings is what options you get access to, which is largely simply dependent on how much content you got through in ME3 as opposed to the actual decisions and choices you made throughout ME3 and its predecessors.
The fact that [...] there was more outrage over the last 10 minutes of ME3 than over any other videogame I've ever seen, is
Proof that the internet is full of irrational whiners?
But then again I only need to look on the comments section of any news article that has a comments section to see that much.
One can always avoid the substantive issue by hand-waving it away and painting it as something mundane.
Point is, that sort of a reaction was unique. Yes, there are always complainers. Companies however do not typically respond to it, They certainly don't typically do so by coming out within weeks or release with a new, unplanned DLC to address the issue, and then tack more on later for simple mundane complaining. The scale and size of the issue was singularly unique and absolutely indicative of a major problem. If it were not, there would not have been several add-ons to the game addressing it, and having to change aspects (such as the Mass Relay Gate explosions and the run to the Beam up to the Citadel).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 02:30:04
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Do you have anything else to add that isn't based off of this irrelevancy?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Then that's an entirely different argument, and, going back to my earlier statements, at that point one has to accept that any "hints" you're seeing in earlier games of ME3's ultimate ending scenario are largely your own projection to retroactively force the narrative to function, rather than an intended narrative construct that supported the narrative all the way through.
Do you have anything else to add that isn't based off of this irrelevancy?
So, you're just going to hand-wave anything you don't want to talk about as an irrelevancy?
Ok, lets go back to the direct narrative once again. The fact that the ending plays out with largely no regards to your previous choices or decisions (and is pretty much entirely simply based on volume of content completion of the last leg of the trilogy) is extremely disconnecting, particularly in that they only affect the different buttons you get to push. The game's ultimate ending is entirely disconnected from the narrative of the rest of the game, and your option to control the reapers or synthesize a new paradigm is dependent on...how big a fleet you bring to earth? And that this is largely determined simply by a certain level of ME3 content completion and has nothing to do with *how* you accomplish any of that? That's an issue.
You can fundamentally disprove the Reapers logic by negotiating peace between the Geth and the Quarrians or not but the ending doesn't change You can doom the Krogan to slow death or not, doesn't change how the end plays out. You can save the Rachni or not, doesn't change how the game ends. Your encounter with the Illusive Man has no effect on how the game ends. The survival and makeup of the Galactic Council is utterly irrelevant to the game's outcome. Bringing the Batarians back into the fold changes nothing. The fate of the Shadow Broker changes nothing. At best these things simply change the War Assets number slightly, and the *only* thing that changes is the buttons that you are allowed to push.
The platform scene is completely independent of the rest of trilogy beyond what doors you get the choice to open, and even that can be accomplished without anything from ME1 or ME2 playing into that and only completing certain parts of ME3, the choices and decisions being largely irrelevant. (in a game where the overriding narrative had always ostensibly relied heavily on player decisions).
This is of course also ignoring the awkwardness of the hamfisted in "readiness rating" dependent on playing multiplayer...
Lets put it in another perspective.
What made this ending work in Deus Ex was that your choice was the answer to a fundamental question that was continually asked throughout the entire story "How should society be governed?/how should civilization operate?" Through control of all-encompassing AI in the hands of a privileged secret cabal? by the people operating at local cooperative levels without AI or Cabals? Through a new paradigm with a new human/AI hybrid God?
Throughout the Mass Effect series, your goal is the stop the Reapers from obliterating and killing all existing sentient life in the galaxy, largely through military means. Even setting aside the absurdity of the circular logic their premise is built on, you aren't presented with the parallel of the above question as the central focus of the story until the very end of the last game, at which point the narrative shifts on a dime from "stop the reapers militarily" to "answer a god-like AI's philosophical quandary".
The idea of "Organics vs Synthetics" was not the core overriding narrative theme through the game, in fact, you spend a whole lot more time fighting organics than you do synthetics, and the synthetic threat comes almost exclusively as a result of the Reapers actions (including the Heretic Geth who otherwise were content to sit off not bothering anyone).
Thus, in Deus Ex you answer a question fundamental throughout the whole narrative, in ME3 the narrative snap-focuses to a narrow tangent line in the last 10 minutes, a tangent that was almost entirely a self-referencing problem with the opposing entity in the first place, and that you could fundamentally prove an unnecessary question by the the players actions, long before the question is ever directly put them (but doing so has no real effect either).
Ultimately, we started the discussion on why the ME3 ending was narratively disconnected from the rest of the ME trilogy story through direct parallels to the exact same scene in another game, direct hints to a different ending dropped in ME2 about a different ending, statements from the writer of the first two ME games that they were going towards a different ending originally, and the fact that nothing about the ultimate ending is dependent on any of the decisions made throughout the rest of the narrative only a certain level of content completion to unlock different buttons. There's a lot there to cause people to feel like the ME3 ending was inappropriate and disconnected relative to the rest of the trilogy's narrative and that there are reason for that feeling beyond just "well you're just complaining".
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I liked reading all of the rage in the comments on that video with all the endings next to each other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 04:58:48
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Do you have anything else to add that isn't based off of this irrelevancy?
I don't see how the authors explicitly stated intentions are irrelevant.
Do you have any counter arguments that aren't based on ignoring facts? You've lost the arguments, so now you're pretending you never cared in the first place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 05:29:24
A Town Called Malus wrote: I've always disliked that whole Dark matter thing. If anything it is more deus ex machina than the current ending.
Sacrificing humanity can suddenly fix a galaxy-wide problem that has persisted over millions of years? And apparently humanity is the first species in how many iterations of evolution to have this specific genetic trait that makes them capable of this?
It's pretty bad writing.
I'm not entirely sure how it would have been justified, but "Humanity is special" was one of the sub-themes of ME2. Mordin brings it up on more than one occasion, iirc (starting waaaay back when you first meet him, and discuss the plague with him). And I think it's mentioned by a few other people (who don't lead terrorist movements).
Presumably letting the Reapers go ahead would have involved the "reaperification" of the entire population of Earth at minimum. Shepard's team notes in ME2 that the Collectors have enough storage space set up to kidnap the entire population of Earth. I don't know if it's ever been mentioned whether humanity had been around long enough to have any other worlds with populations anywhere near the size of Earth's.
A Town Called Malus wrote: I've always disliked that whole Dark matter thing. If anything it is more deus ex machina than the current ending.
Sacrificing humanity can suddenly fix a galaxy-wide problem that has persisted over millions of years? And apparently humanity is the first species in how many iterations of evolution to have this specific genetic trait that makes them capable of this?
It's pretty bad writing.
I'm not entirely sure how it would have been justified, but "Humanity is special" was one of the sub-themes of ME2. Mordin brings it up on more than one occasion, iirc (starting waaaay back when you first meet him, and discuss the plague with him). And I think it's mentioned by a few other people (who don't lead terrorist movements).
Presumably letting the Reapers go ahead would have involved the "reaperification" of the entire population of Earth at minimum. Shepard's team notes in ME2 that the Collectors have enough storage space set up to kidnap the entire population of Earth. I don't know if it's ever been mentioned whether humanity had been around long enough to have any other worlds with populations anywhere near the size of Earth's.
But hardly that special. We just have a bit more genetic diversity than the other races. Going from making an effective test group to suddenly having the key to saving the whole galaxy within our DNA is a bit of a stretch.
Throughout the series the thing that was brought up the most as what makes humanity so strong and dangerous is our determination and ambition.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
The final produced work, after the revisions and additions, speaks for itself-- regardless of authorial intent.
Or to put it another way:
J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.
Intent is not a sacred cow to be worshiped. Many things happen regardless of intent. Else, you'd not be here complaining about the ending, because they obviously didn't intend to write an ending you'd have cause to complain about.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/06/22 14:41:59
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
You do realise that there is more than one writer involved right? ME3 had a different writer to the original two games. The original writer had a different ending in mind to what his replacement shoehorned into the final game. It's the original writer we're talking about.
Melissia wrote: As for the Citadel, it's unclear how many died or survived on that, but I heard hints that it was evacuated or that some people did survive impact, so IDK. That was my big complaint-- that there wasn't enough in-game information about what happened to the people on the Citadel. On that, I fully agree.
Anyone remember how in Mass Effect 1, if a Reaper took control of the Citadel, they would immediately shut down the relay system? And how the whole final stage was desperately racing to stop Sovereign from doing that?
Anyone?
But that does sum up the biggest reason the ending fails for me--it suddenly stops being about individual characters. Throughout the three ME games, you were dealing with big galaxy-shaking events through the lens of relatable characters and their stories. Mordin, Wrex and Eve told the story of the krogan, Tali and Legion told the story of the geth and quarians. Even the Reapers themselves are introduced and made hateful through their corruption and eventual enslavement of Saren. And so on. But very suddenly, they get forgotten (when i first played the vanilla ending, I wasn't paying attention to the Citadel being a mess because I was more worried about if my squadmates had survived), and everything gets swept off the table. Even Shepard him / herself barely matters, and is only relevant because they happened to catch the attention of the most evil and hateful mass murderer in the history of everything (who we're expected to listen to sympathetically because reasons).
It's like....if I was watching the original Star Wars trilogy when they first came out, and at the end of RotJ, when Luke walks into the Emperor's throne room, we get the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey. The ending of 2001 is good, but it's not a good ending to all movies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 17:08:19
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
Sovereign wasn't going to shut down the relay system, he was going to activate the hidden mass relay in the citadel, allowing the other reapers to jump straight into the galaxy at the very heart of governance.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Vaktathi wrote: one has to accept that any "hints" you're seeing in earlier games of ME3's ultimate ending scenario are largely your own projection
No I don't.
By definition, you do. You are reading things into a narrative, retroactively, that were never intended by the original author, based on a sequel written by a different author.,
ME3 was written using the facts of ME1 and ME2. There's no "projection" at all.
Yes, written by a different team, with nothing resembling the ME3 ending in mind. The actual explicit hints to an ending you get in earlier games are not the one's you're picking up on.
I'm not budging on that statement.
Ok, well, care to address any of the other points I stated, or are you just going to re-state how much you don't care about this one and ignore every other argument I've made?
Melissia wrote: As for the Citadel, it's unclear how many died or survived on that, but I heard hints that it was evacuated or that some people did survive impact, so IDK. That was my big complaint-- that there wasn't enough in-game information about what happened to the people on the Citadel. On that, I fully agree.
Anyone remember how in Mass Effect 1, if a Reaper took control of the Citadel, they would immediately shut down the relay system? And how the whole final stage was desperately racing to stop Sovereign from doing that?
Anyone?
But that does sum up the biggest reason the ending fails for me--it suddenly stops being about individual characters. Throughout the three ME games, you were dealing with big galaxy-shaking events through the lens of relatable characters and their stories. Mordin, Wrex and Eve told the story of the krogan, Tali and Legion told the story of the geth and quarians. Even the Reapers themselves are introduced and made hateful through their corruption and eventual enslavement of Saren. And so on. But very suddenly, they get forgotten (when i first played the vanilla ending, I wasn't paying attention to the Citadel being a mess because I was more worried about if my squadmates had survived), and everything gets swept off the table. Even Shepard him / herself barely matters, and is only relevant because they happened to catch the attention of the most evil and hateful mass murderer in the history of everything (who we're expected to listen to sympathetically because reasons).
It's like....if I was watching the original Star Wars trilogy when they first came out, and at the end of RotJ, when Luke walks into the Emperor's throne room, we get the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey. The ending of 2001 is good, but it's not a good ending to all movies.
Exactly!
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Compel wrote: Did Harbie even have any lines in ME3? I can't even remember...
I don't believe so, he just flies in near the end, blasts some stuff, and that's pretty much it IIRC. It's been like three years since I played ME3 so I could be forgetting something, but I don't recall anything else from Harbinger.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
mattyrm wrote: This conversation is far too deep and meaningful for me, my issue with ME:3 was a very very simple one.
What was the point in the hundreds of decisions I made, when everybody dies in the end anyway?
Save the geth, they all die anyway. Save the Quarians, they all die anyway. Save the earth, its fethed anyway. Cure the genophage, feth it everyone dies anyway.
It seemed to me to ride roughshod over the illusion of choice I had throughout the series!
The real world is miserable enough as it is, I like my fiction to at least have a solid happy ending. I wanted to feth off and retire with my space spouse in a nice cottage somewhere exotic, not choose between turning the galaxy into mutants or kill absolutely everyone.
News flash: Everything dies. This is the natural end of all life. That you thought you had a real choice in your actions is one of the greatest jokes of existence. Free will? Your mind is a computer that functions on chemical reactions. Your sense of free will is an illusion. You are, in fact, simply reacting based on primate evolutionary cues.
In fiction? In my ending, Shep goes out the best possible way she can. She saves the galaxy, destroys the Reapers and their Relays. Her crew (and members of many other species) survive to rebuild the future. Shepherd? I'm left to wander the ruins of Earth alone until my dying day. Mine is a tale bards will sing in the era-to-come. Not quite a true apocalypse, for much has survived and, most importantly, the knowledge of how to build things, how to work with Element-Zero, how to procure it, where to find it.... it isn't as if they're going back to the Stone Age. Best of all? I left them with evidence of what could happen, in the hopes that future generations will know to be wary, and not make the same mistakes we did.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
In my head-canon ending Garrus turns up to hold Shepard, slowly bleeding out on the deck of the Crucible, as they watch all they have worked for finally come to pass . Their war is finally over, though, like many soldiers in countless conflicts throughout time, they will not get to take part in the rebuilding.
They just sit together and watch the war end.
"I think I'm ready to storm those gates, Garrus Vakarian."
"Wherever you go, commander, I follow."
"You always were a damn fine soldier Vakarian but I don't think this is a time when you can look out for me through your sniper scope."
"I learnt from the best and know this, Shepard, I will follow you and, no matter the odds, no matter the enemy, nothing shall stop me from finding you again."
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Since, once again this is the crux of your argument, I'll repeat myself: don't care.
I'm bored of this conversation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/22 23:04:10
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Vaktathi wrote: Only if you project things from ME3 back onto earlier games
So you don't like mystery stories then?
A lot of things in mystery books only make sense later on in the story. But putting the pieces together from across the beginning, middle, and end of the story, they make sense in the end, when you confront the finale.
OK now I'm beginning to think you're just being purposefully obtuse to get a rise out of Vak.
Foreshadowing requires intent on the part of the writer. The lead writer has publicly stated that the finale of the story which was in the minds of the writing team while they were writing the first and second games was not the ending the series was eventually given. It is therefore impossible for there to be foreshadowing of the ending in the first two games. Indeed we know for a fact that they were foreshadowing an entirely different outcome in the first two games.
Now, you can work backwards with hindsight from the ending we eventually got and rationalise the events of the first two games, providing you're willing to ignore a few plotholes and the foreshadowing for the originally intended conclusion of the storyline(that's obviously possible since it's what the lead writer of ME3 did), but it must be acknowledged that that's what you're doing, and also that what you're doing is scarcely more "legitimate" than people who prefer to rationalise the ending of ME3 as the result of Indoctrination. You're choosing to rework the story to fit the ending, as Bioware did, they're choosing to rework the ending to fit the story.
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Yodhrin wrote: Foreshadowing requires intent on the part of the writer.
No it doesn't. You only require some indication or forewarning of future events. And we got that.
Honestly at this point, I'm wondering if you guys are arguing in good faith, so I'm going to bow out before I piss the mods off again.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/22 23:12:51
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