Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I apologize if this has been brought up before but I'm trying to ask as many people as I can. I do not play Necrons but a person at my local store does and we have an issue on how Reanimation Protocols works, specifically in regards to Instant Death and Crypteks in a Decurion. Another more experienced player has said no about this, but I only wish to make sure.

If a Cryptek is attached to a unit in a Decurion do they still get a 4+ Reanimation Protocols save against Wounds caused by Instant Death weapons? If for example a Necron Warrior in that unit was hit by a Thunder Hammer, would he get a 4+ or a 5+ Reanimation Protocols save? I had thought it would be the former for quite some time now, but another more experienced player says that's not the case and the Warrior would only get a 5+. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Yes you have two +1s and one -1 resulting in a +1 so a 4+ RP roll.

I disagree with FlingitNow.

The sequence is: 1st add all bonus to the RP as part of the formation and/or special rules (can not go bellow 4+ as per RP rule). Then -1 for instant dead rules.

The RP roll must be 5+ in this case.

 Xenophon00 wrote:
I disagree with FlingitNow.

The sequence is: 1st add all bonus to the RP as part of the formation and/or special rules (can not go bellow 4+ as per RP rule). Then -1 for instant dead rules.

The RP roll must be 5+ in this case.

Nope. You add up all modifiers and then at the end of everything apply the restriction that the roll can't be lower than 4+. So in the example provided by the OP the answer is 4+.

col_impact wrote:

 Xenophon00 wrote:
I disagree with FlingitNow.

The sequence is: 1st add all bonus to the RP as part of the formation and/or special rules (can not go bellow 4+ as per RP rule). Then -1 for instant dead rules.

The RP roll must be 5+ in this case.

Nope. You add up all modifiers and then at the end of everything apply the restriction that the roll can't be lower than 4+. So in the example provided by the OP the answer is 4+.

That is not how it should work.

Formation benefits are calculated before other other modifiers. If part of the formation and/or special rules, then bonus is apply permanently (under special condition in some case), then come the modifier for the specific sequence (CC in this case).

Those neuron already benefits from the 2 x +1 RP (limited to 4+ for necrons) since the beginning of the turn/game. Come the instant death, then -1 to the RP roll.

Any way, you need to understand that the Decurion formation and or the Cryptek do not add +1 to the tool but make the RP 1 better.

And as per mention in the Necrons Codex, instant Death subtract 1 from the result (see attached rule from the codex). So yes the Necron player will roll on a 4+ for RP but instant Death will subtract 1 from it.

 Xenophon00 wrote:
That is not how it should work.

Yet, that is how it does work.

 Xenophon00 wrote:
Formation benefits are calculated before other other modifiers. If part of the formation and/or special rules, then bonus is apply permanently (under special condition in some case), then come the modifier for the specific sequence (CC in this case).

Where is that in the rulebook?

What the rulebook has is:

BRB wrote:
Multiple Modifiers
If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values. For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘double Strength’, its final Strength is 9 (4×2=8, 8+1=9). If a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘Strength 8’, its final Strength is 8 (ignore +1 Strength and set it at 8).

So, as Col_impact already stated, you do all the addition/subraction before applying any set value. The set value in this question is the "never go above 4+".

 Xenophon00 wrote:
I disagree with FlingitNow.

The sequence is: 1st add all bonus to the RP as part of the formation and/or special rules (can not go bellow 4+ as per RP rule). Then -1 for instant dead rules.

The RP roll must be 5+ in this case.

Incorrect. I believe the correct order of modifications is multipliers, then addition subtractions, then setting values.

So the additions and subtractions would apply at the same time and then the limit of 4+ would kick in.

 Xenophon00 wrote:
I disagree with FlingitNow.

The sequence is: 1st add all bonus to the RP as part of the formation and/or special rules (can not go bellow 4+ as per RP rule). Then -1 for instant dead rules.

The RP roll must be 5+ in this case.

Despite all the rules listed already proving this wrong check the RP modifier rules themselves. They state they stack what woukd be the point in stacking if not to reduce the impact of ID? There is literally no other effect of modifiers stacking.

Its a +4 because the rule in reaniation protocol states the word cumulative.
1
5+1=4-1=5
5+1+1=4-1=5(no point in the cumulative word)

2
5+1+1=4(+1)-1=4(now the word cumulative makes sence)