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Most people would put nids as the greatest threat and for good reason. And necrons not far behind.

** My lore knowledge is pretty shaky at best, so correct me if I'm wrong with any of this**

I don't really see the long game entering into the equation. Chaos is immortal. Single daemon princes and greater daemons can destroy entire worlds without appropriate intervention. And as time goes on, there are only more and more of them. The best you can do is banish them for a time. Their long term goal is to usurp reality itself, at which point everybody and everything would be screwed. Not to mention the threat that the likes of ahriman pose. No telling what kind of destruction he would cause if successful. Chaos can fight forever. Though I'm not sure what would happen if nids consume everything and/or necrons fully awaken.

The nids and crons could very well throw a wrench in the dark god's plans, but the gods only really need to reach that critical mass at which point they would become unstoppable. Which is directly linked to the success of abaddon's crusade against the imperium. Shouldn't the potential damage that could follow in abaddons wake make the followers of chaos at least as potent a threat? Even if they, as a force , are less threatening. After all chaos is actively seeking this apocalypse level event, whereas nids are "merely" floating around doing their thing. And necron seem pretty busy getting their gak back together, before thinking about conquering anything.

Plus, I believe it was the 3d witch hunter codex, featured chaos tainted orks. I'm not sure exactly how that came about, but if the forces of chaos could corrupt a sizable ork force, then their threat level would increase immensely. And in general, the stronger chaos becomes, the more of a threat they become, as it results in more and more of a corrupting influence on those susceptible, in addition to an already stronger force.

Unlike the other two, the forces of chaos are an immediate threat too and have been for the last 10000 years. They're only as "weak" as they are because of how many resources are spent at fighting them. As vast as the imperium is, the rise of other factions will mean that less resources can be spent to fight chaos. Making them stronger again. If they prefer to take casualties, because they feel that the chaos threat is more imminent, then that reinforces my impression that chaos is at least as dangerous.

In my mind, the implied consequence of abbadon winning would be serious enough, that, assuming the nids/necron became a more immediate threat to the imperium, that other races would fight along side the imperium against necrons and nids in order to allow the imperium to keep chaos in check. As either of those factions are a threat to every living thing in existence. And only the empire of man has the resources to fight such a long protracted battle as they do on cadia. I suppose orcs might eventually get in on the fighting, but that could go either way. Also, necron could possibly enter some kind of alliance as they probably don't appreciate their galaxy being infested by nids or the thought of it becoming a nightmarish hellscape. Which may keep everybody busy enough to enter a stalemate of sorts.

At which point the whole long game part becomes a thing. Over time the ranks of daemons swell and swell and the gods become stronger from all the conflict. Khorne in particular. While the other factions stay somewhat the same in strength. It may take another 40 millenia but eventually chaos would come out on top.

So, once more. Why are the forces of chaos considered less of a threat than nids for example? Nids are a huge threat, but they're not the fastest. Necrons are immensely powerful but are fighting between themselves and have quite some work ahead to restore their full power. And orks numerous and all, but less of a threat than nids simply because of who they are and how they think. (I wonder if some have considered seeding worlds with orcs in order to fight fire with fire against nids. An Endless WAAAAGH would probably suit them. Or luring one hive against another?) Chaos on the other hand, has been right there all along. A constant threat, knocking on the imperium's door. Who are so hellbent on destruction that they quite literally sell their souls.

Because the power of chaos to influence the material plane is limited to its mortal agents.

Chaos loses every time the Tyranids win, unless the 'nids are fighting Necrons.

Chaos loses every time anyone except Necrons or Tyranids loses, because without mortal souls, Chaos is nothing.

That said, for most of the Imperium Chaos is the major enemy, aside from perhaps Orks - because unlike alien invasions, anyone can be a Chaos cultist. Your next door neighbour. Your minister. Your boss at work (although with your luck, probably not). Your sister. Your mother. You.

Everyone in the Imperium lives under the constant threat of being caught up in a Chaos scheme, or being accused of being complicit in one.

Chaos is the greatest threat, this is outright stated in the rule book.
Their destructive potential is unmatched and they're only one death away from consuming the galaxy.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Because the power of chaos to influence the material plane is limited to its mortal agents.

Chaos loses every time the Tyranids win, unless the 'nids are fighting Necrons.

Chaos loses every time anyone except Necrons or Tyranids loses, because without mortal souls, Chaos is nothing.

That said, for most of the Imperium Chaos is the major enemy, aside from perhaps Orks - because unlike alien invasions, anyone can be a Chaos cultist. Your next door neighbour. Your minister. Your boss at work (although with your luck, probably not). Your sister. Your mother. You.

Everyone in the Imperium lives under the constant threat of being caught up in a Chaos scheme, or being accused of being complicit in one.

Not only is it stupidly easy for Chaos to rip into the material plane through even just bog standard human beings, they already have more than enough people in the warp to sustain them, are connected to other universes to feed upon, and probably can't even die in the first place, but if they wanted they could easily wreak utter havoc on all the other factions by possessing and detonating stars. Plus there's time travel to take into account.

Chaos is most certainly the biggest threat simply because they wield the greatest amount of power of all the factions, and I would bet on them pulling a fantasy if 40K ever gets an end of times. The only thing going against Chaos is that Chaos doesn't want to "win" like the other factions. Domination for it results in stagnation and complete boredom, the worst fate imaginable for a pantheon of change.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Because the power of chaos to influence the material plane is limited to its mortal agents.

Chaos loses every time the Tyranids win, unless the 'nids are fighting Necrons.

Chaos loses every time anyone except Necrons or Tyranids loses, because without mortal souls, Chaos is nothing.

That said, for most of the Imperium Chaos is the major enemy, aside from perhaps Orks - because unlike alien invasions, anyone can be a Chaos cultist. Your next door neighbour. Your minister. Your boss at work (although with your luck, probably not). Your sister. Your mother. You.

Everyone in the Imperium lives under the constant threat of being caught up in a Chaos scheme, or being accused of being complicit in one.

Not only is it stupidly easy for Chaos to rip into the material plane through even just bog standard human beings, they already have more than enough people in the warp to sustain them, are connected to other universes to feed upon, and probably can't even die in the first place, but if they wanted they could easily wreak utter havoc on all the other factions by possessing and detonating stars. Plus there's time travel to take into account.

Chaos is most certainly the biggest threat simply because they wield the greatest amount of power of all the factions, and I would bet on them pulling a fantasy if 40K ever gets an end of times. The only thing going against Chaos is that Chaos doesn't want to "win" like the other factions. Domination for it results in stagnation and complete boredom, the worst fate imaginable for a pantheon of change.

Fantasy didn't have factions that could punch at the same level though. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons have genuine endgames that could trump Chaos. Or Chaos could trump them. It's up in the air, but fantasy was always marketed as "doomed if Chaos ever comes south".

Xyptc wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Because the power of chaos to influence the material plane is limited to its mortal agents.

Chaos loses every time the Tyranids win, unless the 'nids are fighting Necrons.

Chaos loses every time anyone except Necrons or Tyranids loses, because without mortal souls, Chaos is nothing.

That said, for most of the Imperium Chaos is the major enemy, aside from perhaps Orks - because unlike alien invasions, anyone can be a Chaos cultist. Your next door neighbour. Your minister. Your boss at work (although with your luck, probably not). Your sister. Your mother. You.

Everyone in the Imperium lives under the constant threat of being caught up in a Chaos scheme, or being accused of being complicit in one.

Not only is it stupidly easy for Chaos to rip into the material plane through even just bog standard human beings, they already have more than enough people in the warp to sustain them, are connected to other universes to feed upon, and probably can't even die in the first place, but if they wanted they could easily wreak utter havoc on all the other factions by possessing and detonating stars. Plus there's time travel to take into account.

Chaos is most certainly the biggest threat simply because they wield the greatest amount of power of all the factions, and I would bet on them pulling a fantasy if 40K ever gets an end of times. The only thing going against Chaos is that Chaos doesn't want to "win" like the other factions. Domination for it results in stagnation and complete boredom, the worst fate imaginable for a pantheon of change.

Fantasy didn't have factions that could punch at the same level though. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons have genuine endgames that could trump Chaos. Or Chaos could trump them. It's up in the air, but fantasy was always marketed as "doomed if Chaos ever comes south".

Except neither the Necrons or Tyranids have options to trump Chaos, especially when the actions of the Tyranids would only usher in the apocalypse.

The thing with chaos as a pantheon is that when it considers anything a threat, it focuses on it and either corrupts it or wipes it out, if the chaos gods basically told their followers to go fight the nids and wipe them out, that's what they'd do, crons are another matter as they have the ability to shut out the warp, won't stop the Mortals but would stop the deamons.

True, but I don't imagine it would stop daemon engines, possesed, daemon weapons and the likes. Would it be possible for them to somehow open warpgates by tethering it to living beings maybe?

I wish Chaos was more present in fluff / TT, a lot of people don't care of it as a great menace anymore.
Chaos used to be cool and grim.
Now they are just looser who can't take on the Imperium during 10k years...

First, while chaos is a major threat. They are entities that exist based on the materium. The Nids, by being around, can cause the chaos demons to start to phase out of reality because of the Shadow in the Warp.

The Hive Mind is basically a Warp God made manifest in the form of an entire endless host of physical beings. The individuals don't matter in the same way they do for the other chaos gods.

Chaos might be the more immediate threat due to, like others have said, it could be anyone including your neighbors. The nids are only taking a back seat right now because exterminatus was used to cause the worst culling of human life since the horus heresy to get the nids to turn towards the orcs. Which is also bad, because now the nids are endlessly growing in biomass from the endless battle with the orcs they are caught up in. If either side wins that fight the rest of the galaxy is fethed. The eldar started doing the exterminatus to the other side of the fight in preparation for the total hell that will be unleashed when leviathan/the orks decide to start fighting there and go hit someone else.

PLEASE. Chaos has lost - is limping - and is serious need of new management.

13 crusades, and chaos is still banished to the eye of terror for all intents and purposes. I mean 10,000 years, and they barely have a foothold IN THE MATERIAL DIMENSION. Somebody needs to fire Abaddon.

Cadia has that sh** on LOCK.

I would put Eldar as a bigger threat to the Imperium. *Mic Drop*

Lance845 wrote:
First, while chaos is a major threat. They are entities that exist based on the materium. The Nids, by being around, can cause the chaos demons to start to phase out of reality because of the Shadow in the Warp.

But this doesn't apply to fusions of both. From what I understand, if the gods ever do manage to unleash hell (literally) then the material realm and the warp will become as one. In which case the gods and daemons and what not can unleash their full potential. And while the nids can replenish their numbers fast. The daemonic hordes cannot be diminished at all. Even now they can only be banished, but they can't actually die. If they fuse both realms then they would be functionally immortal.

Hence the impression that I have that chaos are more dangerous. Unlike the nids, chaos is oh so close to achieve that goal. In my mind, the galaxy is currently more threatened by chaos than it is by nids, because of that. That could easily change depending on where the hive goes, as you say. But they have no reason to go anywhere as long as they can feed on the orks. The hive mind simply consumes whatever is closest, it doesn't really pick it's prey based on the threat it poses to it. Nids are probably much harder to deal with than csm and friends, but they're not about to devour everybody collectively like chaos will do if they win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zgort wrote:
PLEASE. Chaos has lost - is limping - and is serious need of new management.

13 crusades, and chaos is still banished to the eye of terror for all intents and purposes. I mean 10,000 years, and they barely have a foothold IN THE MATERIAL DIMENSION. Somebody needs to fire Abaddon.

Cadia has that sh** on LOCK.

I would put Eldar as a bigger threat to the Imperium. *Mic Drop*

Just barely though lol. Though I agree that they need to step up their fluff game as far as that is concerned XD

Animus wrote:
Chaos is the greatest threat, this is outright stated in the rule book.
Their destructive potential is unmatched and they're only one death away from consuming the galaxy.

Yeah. Everyone who isn't the Tau or Eldar is stated to be the greatest threat to the Imperium in their book. *yawn*

 zgort wrote:
PLEASE. Chaos has lost - is limping - and is serious need of new management.

13 crusades, and chaos is still banished to the eye of terror for all intents and purposes. I mean 10,000 years, and they barely have a foothold IN THE MATERIAL DIMENSION. Somebody needs to fire Abaddon.

Cadia has that sh** on LOCK.

I would put Eldar as a bigger threat to the Imperium. *Mic Drop*

You don't know much about Chaos then. The Gods don't care about taking Cadia, and Abaddon's thirteen crusades have not been failures, especially not the thirteenth, which did break the Imperial line and breached the blockade.

Roknar wrote:

Lance845 wrote:
First, while chaos is a major threat. They are entities that exist based on the materium. The Nids, by being around, can cause the chaos demons to start to phase out of reality because of the Shadow in the Warp.

But this doesn't apply to fusions of both. From what I understand, if the gods ever do manage to unleash hell (literally) then the material realm and the warp will become as one. In which case the gods and daemons and what not can unleash their full potential. And while the nids can replenish their numbers fast. The daemonic hordes cannot be diminished at all. Even now they can only be banished, but they can't actually die. If they fuse both realms then they would be functionally immortal.

Hence the impression that I have that chaos are more dangerous. Unlike the nids, chaos is oh so close to achieve that goal. In my mind, the galaxy is currently more threatened by chaos than it is by nids, because of that. That could easily change depending on where the hive goes, as you say. But they have no reason to go anywhere as long as they can feed on the orks. The hive mind simply consumes whatever is closest, it doesn't really pick it's prey based on the threat it poses to it. Nids are probably much harder to deal with than csm and friends, but they're not about to devour everybody collectively like chaos will do if they win.

I don't believe that is actually a thing. Like... I don't think it's possible. The materium and immaterium are things that coexist and need each other to exist. They could never become one. The Gods of Chaos don't want them to merge. They want to plunge the materium into whatever state feeds that particular entity the psychic energy that feeds them. If the materium were to actually become the warp it would become nothing because the warp is nothing without the psychic impressions left by the materium.

That being said, the only person who is close to getting what he wants actually has what he wants. And that is Khorne who has the whole galaxy at war. But, while the Chaos Gods are a galactic threat the Hive Mind is a Pan-galactic threat. Let me know when the big 4 of Chaos start influencing other Galaxies.

I think it is wrong on the back ground a lot. I been reading 40k novels since 1999. The Black crusades was never failures they was object based incursions to get items that Abaddon needed. He got every thing he needed the aftermaths and attack was always diversions to accomplish the goals. You should really read the Black Legion Codex. And the Talon of Horus that tell you Abaddon never stayed in the eye of terror following the HH. He took the Vengeful Spirit back out of the eye of terror and hid in real space while the traitor legions fought each other for power in the Eye.. Came back once he learned they was fighting after so long and took the show over. In the HH series is talks about how Horus and the Emperor himself got their God like powers. They both made deals with Chaos which the Emperor never delivered on. This changed the game for the universe so. When Horus found the location and knew he had been there before long ago with Big E him self he remembered him gaining the power. So he went in as well found out E got his powers from chaos and they needed Horus to kill him to repay his Debt for the power they gave him. The Emperor must die he needs to as he is a conduit for chaos because he has been touched by them.

That's the first time I hear about that lol. That paints things in a whole different light XD

So what exactly would they gain from reclaiming his soul then? (assuming that's what they want)
I always thought he needed to die in order to permanently open the eye of terror, which would somehow allow the gods to flood the material realm with daemons. (which to me only makes sense if they fuse to a certain degree)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
But, while the Chaos Gods are a galactic threat the Hive Mind is a Pan-galactic threat. Let me know when the big 4 of Chaos start influencing other Galaxies.

Right, that makes sense to me. It even makes both, chaos the greater threat to the imperium and through a chain reaction, other factions. And nids the greater threat overall. Hence why people would consider them more dangerous.

The most dangerous threat is GW, they are the only ones that actually can kill the universe.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos is the greatest threat, this is outright stated in the rule book.
Their destructive potential is unmatched and they're only one death away from consuming the galaxy.

Yeah. Everyone who isn't the Tau or Eldar is stated to be the greatest threat to the Imperium in their book. *yawn*

Chaos is stated to be the greatest threat in the rule book, not just their own book.

Lance845 wrote:
I don't believe that is actually a thing. Like... I don't think it's possible. The materium and immaterium are things that coexist and need each other to exist. They could never become one. The Gods of Chaos don't want them to merge. They want to plunge the materium into whatever state feeds that particular entity the psychic energy that feeds them. If the materium were to actually become the warp it would become nothing because the warp is nothing without the psychic impressions left by the materium.

That being said, the only person who is close to getting what he wants actually has what he wants. And that is Khorne who has the whole galaxy at war. But, while the Chaos Gods are a galactic threat the Hive Mind is a Pan-galactic threat. Let me know when the big 4 of Chaos start influencing other Galaxies.

The Gods do want them to merge, and it will happen when the Emperor dies.
The Chaos Gods are a pan-dimensional threat, never mind galactic, and they have demonstrated their power in other galaxies.

Animus wrote:

The Gods do want them to merge, and it will happen when the Emperor dies.
The Chaos Gods are a pan-dimensional threat, never mind galactic, and they have demonstrated their power in other galaxies.

Nobody knows for sure what would happen when Emps dies. There is so much faith directed at him it might make a new eye of terror as he becomes a new Warp God. Or, like before, he might be reincarnated but more powerful then ever.

If Chaos was really Pan dimensional then Chaos marines would be dumped into WHFB and everyone would be steamrolled by chaos titans.

40k only takes place in one Galaxy. When did a chaos god show their power in another one?

Lance845 wrote:
Nobody knows for sure what would happen when Emps dies.

We're actually told what would happen in the rulebook.
If he dies then there is no one to stop the influx of Chaos into reality and the galaxy will be consumed by the warp.

Lance845 wrote:
If Chaos was really Pan dimensional then Chaos marines would be dumped into WHFB and everyone would be steamrolled by chaos titans.

40k technology has found its way into Fantasy before actually. We were told when the daemons were first released in both systems that they're the very same entities, and it has been mentioned that Daemon Princes may go on to fight for them in other dimensions.

Lance845 wrote:
When did a chaos god show their power in another one?

In Dead Sky Black Sun we see a galaxy that has been scoured of life to honour Khorne.
In the daemons codex it is mentioned that Nurgle has created every plague in the universe and that Tzeentch listens to the hopes of every sentient creature in the universe.
In the oldest Necron codex we are told that the Old Ones had inter-galactic webway tunnels but that these were overrun by the daemons.

It's not the traitor legions that make Chaos the most dangerous threat. It's the fact that it's close to ripping apart real space is why it's the biggest threat. Most of the Galaxy doesn't know that everything is on the brink of literally turning to hell. The end of reality as we know it. The runaway effect of the Old Ones creating the Warp and then creating races whose psykic impressions and emotions coalesce into sentience in the Warp. All while the galaxy has been embroiled in war. Abbadon and the traitors are just a side effect of this ancient ongoing phenomenon, he's just pissed at the Emporer and also wants to carve out his own empire.