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FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Faith is not a virtue.

The only oposition to gay marriage had its central claim around the lines of "the bible says it's bad."

They ignore mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc in the same "holy" book. Why are we still discussing this?

If you understood why people ignore mixed fabrics and shellfish in the same book, you might understand an argument why they ought to ignore the bit about homosexuality as well. But I already know you don't, so my recommendation would be for you to read more on the subject instead of assuming you've already got it all figured out. This has caused you difficulties in the past. Educate yourself.

And I'm not saying this because I'm trying to get you to agree with one side or the other. But you are doing yourself a disservice if you are participating in discussions and debates on religion and the root of your argument is "They ignore mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc in the same "holy" book. Why are we still discussing this?" Quite frankly, it makes you much less likely to be taken seriously, and as much as you seem to care about these issues, it might be helpful for you if your understanding of the subject had a little bit more depth than that. Because there is more depth than that, and just because you don't understand that at this point in your life, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So... This sideways attempt at an insult is not something that I have neither heard before, nor have not been used to dealing with since 1985/86 or so, when my friends at the time began to notice how many deaths occurred near me (and it was only a handful at the time - an ex-girlfriend, the guitarist in a band, a girlfriend of another friend, the sound guy at a club, . . . ).

I could not even begin to name off everyone I have ever known who was dead (mostly from the trauma of my wife - and the distance and alienation I have from my former life).

So... Big deal! People die.

MB

Thats not a sideways insult. I am a Texan. If I am going to do it, I'll do it direct and to your face.

"Watch out. The Little dog bites. So do I."
-Frazzled to people who get too close.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Faith is not a virtue.

The only oposition to gay marriage had its central claim around the lines of "the bible says it's bad."

They ignore mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc in the same "holy" book. Why are we still discussing this?

I would edit that to say that Blind-Faith is not a virtue.

The placeholder of simple Faith though is enough, due to people's conflation of faith supported by flimsy to insubstantial claims and the robust support of Science to the claims and faith we have in the products of Science.

The distinction is one most people seem to be incapable of making, equating faith in a talking snake causing a woman to eat a fruit (which she had no ability to determine was wrong - even if she had been instructed not to eat it, because even knowing that ignoring an instruction was wrong required the knowledge the fruit was supposed to impart to distinguish), which then damned all of humanity, causing a deity to rape a woman to give birth to himself as a human, and then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive a punishment he himself imposed. . . . .

And then try to equivocate that to the faith one has that gravity will remain constant over just the next few minutes. . . takes a lot of willful manipulation and obscuration of reality (and this doesn't even approach Muslim, Hindu, or other mythologies).

But trying to claim this sort of faith is a virtue is akin to claiming that willful ignorance is a virtue.

MB

 Frazzled wrote:
I am a Texan. If I am going to do it, I'll do it direct and to your face..

Yeah, Frazz, you do subtle like a Tiger tank that fires Dachshunds.

Thanks!

 Frazzled wrote:
Thanks!

Don't thank me yet, I've got a scrub brush for you to use to help clean the crew compartment. Apparently dachshunds find being shoved into a KwK 43 scary.

BeAfraid wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Faith is not a virtue.

The only oposition to gay marriage had its central claim around the lines of "the bible says it's bad."

They ignore mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc in the same "holy" book. Why are we still discussing this?

I would edit that to say that Blind-Faith is not a virtue.

The placeholder of simple Faith though is enough, due to people's conflation of faith supported by flimsy to insubstantial claims and the robust support of Science to the claims and faith we have in the products of Science.

The distinction is one most people seem to be incapable of making, equating faith in a talking snake causing a woman to eat a fruit (which she had no ability to determine was wrong - even if she had been instructed not to eat it, because even knowing that ignoring an instruction was wrong required the knowledge the fruit was supposed to impart to distinguish), which then damned all of humanity, causing a deity to rape a woman to give birth to himself as a human, and then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive a punishment he himself imposed. . . . .

And then try to equivocate that to the faith one has that gravity will remain constant over just the next few minutes. . . takes a lot of willful manipulation and obscuration of reality (and this doesn't even approach Muslim, Hindu, or other mythologies).

But trying to claim this sort of faith is a virtue is akin to claiming that willful ignorance is a virtue.

MB

Luckily, your characterization of all of those things isn't the only out there. Theological interpretations vary widely, and some are better than others.

[Woops, sorry]

BeAfraid wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Faith is not a virtue.

The only oposition to gay marriage had its central claim around the lines of "the bible says it's bad."

They ignore mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc in the same "holy" book. Why are we still discussing this?

I would edit that to say that Blind-Faith is not a virtue.

The placeholder of simple Faith though is enough, due to people's conflation of faith supported by flimsy to insubstantial claims and the robust support of Science to the claims and faith we have in the products of Science.

The distinction is one most people seem to be incapable of making, equating faith in a talking snake causing a woman to eat a fruit (which she had no ability to determine was wrong - even if she had been instructed not to eat it, because even knowing that ignoring an instruction was wrong required the knowledge the fruit was supposed to impart to distinguish), which then damned all of humanity, causing a deity to rape a woman to give birth to himself as a human, and then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive a punishment he himself imposed. . . . .

And then try to equivocate that to the faith one has that gravity will remain constant over just the next few minutes. . . takes a lot of willful manipulation and obscuration of reality (and this doesn't even approach Muslim, Hindu, or other mythologies).

But trying to claim this sort of faith is a virtue is akin to claiming that willful ignorance is a virtue.

MB

SO is this part of the thread where we start having bible debates? It seems like we have some members enjoy making out of context bible quotes to bash Christianity..I mean as has happened in tthe past..I don't mind having the debate, but if the mods are going to let this off topic debate go..I'll jump in and debate....so here it goes.

1)The distinction is one most people seem to be incapable of making, equating faith in a talking snake causing a woman to eat a fruit...
The snake didn't "cause " the sin, Eve willingly disobeyed Gods command, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
This shows the concept of free will, in that God did not create man to be robots.

2) (which she had no ability to determine was wrong - even if she had been instructed not to eat it, because even knowing that ignoring an instruction was wrong required the knowledge the fruit was supposed to impart to distinguish),
This is an illogical statement, in that.God informed Eve that eating this fruit was wrong, therefore she knew it was wrong.
You error in presenting your argument, as though eve had no foreknowledge of the instruction not to eat. She did have foreknowledge, and disobeyed the instruction not to eat.

3)causing a deity to rape a woman to give birth to himself as a human,
Are you referring to Mormonism here? Because the bible does not state that God raped Mary, but that her conception was a miracle, I.E. no human intercourse was involved.


Your attempt to distill a complex theological doctrine down to a few cute sound bites, is pretty typical of someone that doesn't really know as much as they claim.

She had God's command not to eat it, but how was she to know that she shouldn't break that command without a sense of right and wrong?

Yeah we're done here. I'm finally taking this thread out back and putting it down