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Being the min/maxer at heart I've always been, I sat down to take a paw through the LOTR current sourcebooks (excluding the Hobbit ones, as I do not own them), and tried to work out what the most cost-efficient troops were.

Working on the basis that Fight Value, Strength, Toughness, and Attacks were the best stats to plump for, I calculated that the Dwarf Warrior actually seemed to be the best possible option for Good. At 9 points with a fight Value of 4 and a toughness of 7, he has one total point higher in the vital stats than the equivalently priced Galadhrim Warrior , and he seems to outshine the more expensive Rohan Royal Guard, and the Guards of the Fountain Court w/shield altogether with his comparable stats at a lesser price. Admittedly, he doesn't have Bodyguard, but if that's what you're after, the Khazad Guard weighs in at the same points cost as the GOTFC, and has everything he does with strength 4 to boot. The High Elves can claim a higher fight value, but even if you take a shield to balance out the stats to comparable totals, the Dwarf Warrior is still cheaper.



That is for the shield wall though. When it comes to archery, the Rohan Outrider seems to stand as king, followed by Wood Elves with bows. I'm very much of the opinion that archers are there to shoot, and if they're in combat, you've screwed up. So the Wood Elves higher fight value is rendered somewhat irrelevant. The Outrider has a higher toughness than the Wood Elf to match that increase somewhat regardless, and whilst the Wood Elf has a better bow, the Outrider has his additional Stand Fast special rule, and plumps in a whole two points cheaper to boot.




With regards to evil, the basic Moria Goblin seems to come into a niche on his own purely for how cheap he is.

Assuming you don't want swarm tactics though, the Morannon Orc appears to be the best. With his Heavy Armour and Strength 4, he comes in two points cheaper than an Uruk-Hai for much the same stats. Admittedly, he lacks the Fight Value of the Uruk, but the impression I'm getting is that the best way to run them would be to have Morannon Orcs with spears (for that additional point) supporting Black Numenoreans. That way, you can grab the higher fight value, put models that cause Terror as the front of your shield wall, and then still have a strength 4 model lending a hand to beat through enemy heavy armour.



When it comes to archery, I'm somewhat split. The Orc Tracker clearly dominates due to his severe cheapness, but the Watcher of Karna really deserves a special mention. Whilst he's a whole 4 points more expensive, he boasts a 3+ to hit instead, poisoned arrows, 'steely nerve', resistance to magic, a higher fight value, and best of all, an extra attack (something you usually pay dearly for points wise).



The next step now is to figure out what Heroes and cavalry are the most cost efficient, and insert them as appropriate. Then I can start looking at the GBHL and crafting an appropriate list without being terrified of getting too badly curbstomped.

Don't know if you've seen it, but issue 1 of the SBG fanzine had a good article about 'undercosted' models. It drew largely the same conclusion as you have here, but perhaps a bit more mathematically. Worth a look.

On to your list, I agree with most of it. Rohan Outriders at the same cost as a bow-armed Warrior of Rohan boggles me somewhat, as there's basically no reason to use the latter. The same goes for Orc Trackers; if you want Orcs that shoot, Trackers are the way to go. Watchers of Karna do come up a lot in these sort of discussions, and I can see the appeal (good stats, poison, 2A) but at the same time, if your primary archer contingent is in CC to use those attacks then they're wasting the archery you bought them for. I'd certainly bring a few if you want as they are good value, you just have to be sure you know how to get the most out of them/not waste their various abilities. I can't recall how much it is (2 points or 3) but you can upgrade basic Haradrim Warriors to Sh3+, giving you 'Watchers-lite' which aren't as good value on paper, but don't suffer from a confused role, they are there to shoot and only to shoot.

The other archer I'd mention is the humble Ranger of Gondor. At 9 points with a spear he's pricey, but that gets you both F4 Spear support (great in typically F3 Gondor armies) and very respectable shooting, while they hunker down behind the higher defence of WoMT or GotFC.

For shieldwalling, Dwarves do it best, but you'll want to ally in some shooting, as their own Archers aren't brilliant, and maybe look at the Hobbit Dwarf rules (in a free PDF from BL) as they can bring spears as well, which makes them a lot more reliable. Avoid the temptation of Grimhammers, though, as from a competitive standpoint Khazad Guard do everything they do but better. Your suggestion of a Black Numenorean shieldwall with Morannon Spear Support sounds nasty, but I almost think you'd be better off going for regular Orcs in the back, just as they're cheaper (and you're paying a lot for the front rank). Morannon Orcs are certainly good, though; with high D being very 'in' among Good side armies, S4 at a bargain price is not to be sniffed at!

As far as offensive troops go, the ones that always come up are Feral/Berserker Uruks and Corsair Reavers, and I'm not sure Good really have an on-foot equivalent (Good hitting power tends to come from cavalry like SKoDA or Rivendell Lancers). Good strength, Attacks and courage are the focus here, just be ready to buy them some meat shields as they will attract a lot of shooting (which can work in your favour, as the rest of your force goes unharmed).


Cavalry takes a bit more thought, but for Heroes you'll be wanting to get as many what I call Level 2 heroes in as possible, the named captain-equivalents such as Cirion, Gorbag, Madril ect. Typically you're looking at Captain stats (2A/W) but trading in a Fate for a Might that will almost always come in more handy for the same price, and sometimes a neat Special Rule as well (the exception here is Uruks, their captains best the named heroes simply as they can get H. Armour and a Shield). There are also a few heroes considered essential for armies that really on their characters for killing power (Alfrid and Bombur, mostly) but I'm not overly familiar with either, and even at a tournament I don't think I could stomach Alfrid handing out councils to Elrond, Boromir or Gandalf!

I can comment from in game experience since I have never done the analytics of the game. Dwarf warriors are great and cheap and resilient but I cant tell you how many times I have pooped on dwarves with my galadhrim. Sometimes having armies near broken before cc even started.

With sbg it is much much less about the individual unit and more about the army's entire composition. It must function well within itself. This is the mechanic that draws me towards sbg so much as a ruleset.

 Paradigm wrote:
Don't know if you've seen it, but issue 1 of the SBG fanzine had a good article about 'undercosted' models. It drew largely the same conclusion as you have here, but perhaps a bit more mathematically. Worth a look.

I did see it, but as the chap himself said, his mathematics was based on the principle of 1 point per +1 to a stat, as opposed to any judgement as to what stats might be considered superior to others. So as you said yourself below, the Watcher of Karna is excellent by that sort of mathematics, but that doesn't necessarily make them the most cost efficient.

On to your list, I agree with most of it. Rohan Outriders at the same cost as a bow-armed Warrior of Rohan boggles me somewhat, as there's basically no reason to use the latter. The same goes for Orc Trackers; if you want Orcs that shoot, Trackers are the way to go.

The problem with archers though, as far as I can tell, is that you need if you're going to bother to run them, you need to ensure that your force is built around one army to maximise the number or archers available. Orc Trackers fit into at least two armies, so you have a bit of variety, but if you're going to take Outriders, you're essentially restricted to taking a full Rohan army, or one with a large detachment of Rohirrim. I'll probably devote some thought to trying to work out the next best archer for a good force as the alternative.

Watchers of Karna do come up a lot in these sort of discussions, and I can see the appeal (good stats, poison, 2A) but at the same time, if your primary archer contingent is in CC to use those attacks then they're wasting the archery you bought them for. I'd certainly bring a few if you want as they are good value, you just have to be sure you know how to get the most out of them/not waste their various abilities.

Oh, I completely agree. I just like the look of them.

I can't recall how much it is (2 points or 3) but you can upgrade basic Haradrim Warriors to Sh3+, giving you 'Watchers-lite' which aren't as good value on paper, but don't suffer from a confused role, they are there to shoot and only to shoot.

To be honest, I'm of the opinion that you should either take baseline Haradrim with bows, or take Watchers. The single point difference for three special rules, a higher fight value, and an extra attack make it foolish to try and take the inbetween option. It's far better to just lose a mere one or two models and give all your archers a substantial upgrade.

The other archer I'd mention is the humble Ranger of Gondor. At 9 points with a spear he's pricey, but that gets you both F4 Spear support (great in typically F3 Gondor armies) and very respectable shooting, while they hunker down behind the higher defence of WoMT or GotFC.

That would be a good combo.

For shieldwalling, Dwarves do it best, but you'll want to ally in some shooting, as their own Archers aren't brilliant,

I clocked that. It would seem to be the logical choice to ally in wood elves (or Galadhrim) with spears and bows to try and make up the support on the cheap. That way, you get to have the elves sheltering behind the defence 7, and add in the fight value of 5 in support.

and maybe look at the Hobbit Dwarf rules (in a free PDF from BL)

Link?

Your suggestion of a Black Numenorean shieldwall with Morannon Spear Support sounds nasty, but I almost think you'd be better off going for regular Orcs in the back, just as they're cheaper (and you're paying a lot for the front rank). Morannon Orcs are certainly good, though; with high D being very 'in' among Good side armies, S4 at a bargain price is not to be sniffed at!

I suppose you could strip off the shield from the supporting Morannon Orcs to take them down a point apiece. The key thing you're really after there is the strength 4 to support the Black Numenoreans after all.

As far as offensive troops go, the ones that always come up are Feral/Berserker Uruks and Corsair Reavers, and I'm not sure Good really have an on-foot equivalent (Good hitting power tends to come from cavalry like SKoDA or Rivendell Lancers). Good strength, Attacks and courage are the focus here, just be ready to buy them some meat shields as they will attract a lot of shooting (which can work in your favour, as the rest of your force goes unharmed).

I'm not a fan of such troops, purely because in most cases, they either have large weaknesses (low toughness on reavers) or cost enough points that you're starting to be able to buy two troops on the other side for the cost of your one. I prefer the greater flexibility, and spending large numbers of points on a few key troops that can just get mullered by a hero or ent or archery doesn't seem the wisest choice.

Here's the Hobbit PDF:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/The-Hobbit/Heroes-and-villains-of-Middle-earth.pdf

Probably the best Dwarves for pure defensive shieldwalling thanks to D7 and spears, but have absolutely no shooting in the list so you'll definitely want allies of some kind. Some of their heroes are overpriced too (Thrain and Thror) but Dwalin and Thorin are decent brawlers, and Balin gives some nice priority control ability. The best allies to bring along some Archers are probably Galadrhim, or possibly Mirkwood if you have the DoS book, as by all accounts Mirkwood Rangers are pretty insane, although pricey. Alternatively, you could double down on high Defence and bring an Ent or two. Depending on how fluffy/competitive you want the final thing, Hobbit archers are possibly the most points-effective Good archers around, dirt cheap and still bringing a 3+ Shoot. Not something I'd personally do for narrative reasons, but if you're building for power over fluff they might be worth a look. While they don't have a Bow Limit modifer, basic Hobbits are cheap enough that you can fill out some cheap Warband.

Good point on the Watchers vs Haradrim, I didn't realise there was just the one point in it!

I've continued my analysis of the troop options in the game, and I've reached a few more conclusions.

As Paradigm mentioned earlier, rangers are usually seen as a good bow/spear counter to the dwarves. In terms of pure shieldwalling however, I think that a bog standard Wood Elf Warrior with Spear is actually superior. Firstly, they come in a point cheaper than the Ranger, and secondly, unlike the Ranger (who with a Fight Value of 4 adds nothing to the duel phase the dwarf does not), the Galadhrim packs in a Fight Value of 5 to help overwhelm the Uruk-Hai and other nasties you might come up against. Whilst not the most crucial of statistics, he also has an additional two leadership. In other words:-

Ranger:- Comes with an additional bow and an additional point of defence
Wood Elf:- Comes with one more Fight Value, two additional courage, and a point cheaper overall.



I think therefore, that the Wood Elves can claim to be the most cost-efficient of the two in the matter of pure shieldwalling. What's more, the wood elves can carry bows as well for two extra points. Therefore for a point more than the rangers, you can not only acquire a bow, but a higher strength one to boot, and have them play an identical battlefield role to the rangers. So be it in the case of pure shieldwalling, or in shieldwalling plus archery support role, I think it's quite clear that the Wood Elves are the more cost-efficient option of the two.

If we throw cost-efficiency out of the window however, and look more for utility, I think it makes sense to substitute Khazad Guard for the Dwarf Warrior. For an additional two points, you get that crucial Strength 4 so rare among the forces of Good, and Bodyguard. Combined with the higher wood elf courage, it makes it so your break point becomes far less of an issue. So to summarise, I believe that when it comes to spears for good:

-The most cost efficient option is a wood elf with spear and dwarf warrior with shield for a combined seventeen points, and
-The best value option for tactical flexibility would be the Khazad Guard combined with a Wood Elf with Bow and Spear for a combined twenty one points.

Unfortunately, the second option above doesn't all too well for army composition, purely because you need another two models without bows to counterbalance the bow limit (whereas rangers of arnor can take dunedain and suchlike to get around that rule). So it would appear that the best option is to mix the two, namely:-

-A Khazad Guard, and a wood elf with spear for a combined nineteen points. That way, we're loading up on fight value 5 and strength 4, a defence 7 front rank, and combined courage 5 and bodyguard for less points than two Uruk-Hai would cost.

Certainly looks nasty! You could still throw in a few bows even if not everyone can have them. The only concern is that they would need to be separate Warband, so if you end up playing a mission where you have to roll for which Warbands get to deploy/have to go in reserve a bad roll could leave your Guard with no support, or worse, the squishy Elves without their D7 meat shields... Don't know if Dwarves or Elves have anyone who can manipulate that in any way.

Out of interest, what points level are you planning on building to?

 Paradigm wrote:
Certainly looks nasty! You could still throw in a few bows even if not everyone can have them. The only concern is that they would need to be separate Warband, so if you end up playing a mission where you have to roll for which Warbands get to deploy/have to go in reserve a bad roll could leave your Guard with no support, or worse, the squishy Elves without their D7 meat shields... Don't know if Dwarves or Elves have anyone who can manipulate that in any way.

Out of interest, what points level are you planning on building to?

At the moment, I'm just hypothesizing without a designated points limit in mind, although i suppose it would have to a 300 point game minimum in order to comfortably accommodate two warbands with heroes.


Taking your point into account on separate reserves entry, I'd agree that it would make sense to equip as many elves with bows as possible just in case of the scenario issue you just suggested. That would at least enable them to hang around the back in cover and fire off a few shots whilst they waited for the Khazad Guard to arrive.

Thinking off the cuff here, it would seem reasonable to suggest that the most logical third ally warband, to fill in for cavalry would be Rohan. If you take Erkenbrand, you can take the Riders as Westfold Redshields with Fight Value 4, and they get an exemption from the bow limit rule. That would allow you to both supplement your archery force with no issues, and add in the cavalry element. What's more, they're cheap enough that you can take a decent number of them.

Yeah, Rohan are hard to beat for skirmish cavalry. Depending on your Dwarf/Elf heroes and how many points they eat up I'd almost be tempted to just take a Rohan Captain; I think you'd be bringing them for speed and shooting rather than close combat so the boosted F might not be worth it.

 Paradigm wrote:
Yeah, Rohan are hard to beat for skirmish cavalry. Depending on your Dwarf/Elf heroes and how many points they eat up I'd almost be tempted to just take a Rohan Captain; I think you'd be bringing them for speed and shooting rather than close combat so the boosted F might not be worth it.

Well, again off the cuff, here's some thought on heroes and force composition.

Assuming we're taking Khazad Guard and Wood Elves with spears and as many bows as they can take, we're looking for cost utility combined with efficiency in heroes. So no 100+ point beatsticks. And we'll need one each from the wood elf and Dwarf army lists.

For the Wood Elves, we want our hero to be Haldir or Legolas. Why? Because taking into account the fact that two of six scenarios can have the Elves arriving separately, the amount of distance firepower needs to be maximised. Legolas is fifteen points more than Haldir, but he brings that extra shot, along with increased Will and Fate So he's the one I'd pick.

With regards to Dwarves, Murin and Drar are too expensive, Floi too potentially irrelevant, and Dain and Durin too expensive. That leaves us with Gimli, Balin, and Mardin. Balin quite clearly outweighs Mardin, with an extra defence and two will for the same points cost. If we're going to take Balin though, we'll want to take Durin's axe to boost him. But by this stage, he's now only five points cheaper than Gimli.

In a nutshell, we're down to picking Legolas, and either Gimli or Balin.

So for a 400 point army list:-

Balin w/Durin's Axe
Legolas
11 Khazad Guard
8 Wood Elves with Spear
4 Wood Elves with Spear & Bow

Comes in at 400 points on the dot, exactly. If I was going to scale it up, I'd be looking at adding Gimli, possibly Haldir, Erkenbrand, and more Khazad Guard, Wood Elves and Riders of Rohan until I hit the appropriate points limit.

If I was determined to squeeze in Gimli above though, I'd strip 3 Khazad Guard down to being Dwarf Warriors.

Looks solid to me.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount Floi, though. He's no leader and he's no beatstick, but being able to nuke a special rule per turn at least 3 times a game (more if any Dwarf kills a hero or multi-wound model) with unlimited range and no counter is very powerful. Imagine striping the Courage debuff from a Nazgul/shade on a turn you'll be taking Break tests, or neutering some combo of Heroes before they hit your lines, or even stopping a magic user from casting. It's not as obvious as some tricks, and he is pricy, but especially in the synergy-heavy tournament scene he could be very disruptive.