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In a Codex Astartes chapter, who comprises a Land Raider crew? Techmarines? Veterans? Regular marines?

The back of the box for the Land Raider Excelsior states there's a Captain inside, which really throws me for a loop. Anyone able to shed some light on this?

It varies from Chapter to Chapter, with some having Serfs drive the Land Raiders, others having Marines drive, others Techmarines, etc. etc.

Even when the LRs are carrying terminators?

srry, I changed my post when I realized how wrong it was.

I see. For the sake of argument, let's assume we're talking about a vanilla LR - Ultramarines, let's say. Is there any text out there with definitive statements on the matter?

I admittedly do not have the two most recent SM codexes, which may be my problem...

M.A.E. wrote:
I see. For the sake of argument, let's assume we're talking about a vanilla LR - Ultramarines, let's say. Is there any text out there with definitive statements on the matter?

I admittedly do not have the two most recent SM codexes, which may be my problem...

AFAIK, Smurf LR pilots are seperate from the rest of the Chapter, in addition to the original thousand. I don't remember where I read this though, so don't quite me on it.

There has IIRC been a statement somewhere that each Land Raider has a Techmarine custodian, which appears to be born out by the Land Raider Index Astartes article where both notable Land Raiders' crews comprised one techmarine and one non-techmarine.

There is contradictory fluff about where the other marine comes from, some sources put them as coming from the Tactical Reserve Companies, some as being separate from company strength.

 Gashrog wrote:

There is contradictory fluff about where the other marine comes from, some sources put them as coming from the Tactical Reserve Companies, some as being separate from company strength.

which is why it makes the most sense for different Chapters to have different customs regarding LR piloting

Oh, I should put at the beginning what I actually understand. The answer is almost certainly marines from the first company. The material I know is that any vehicle is piloted by the marines from whatever company the vehicle is in. The second edition codex ultramarines, Index Astartes, the sixth edition marine codex, and fanatic magazine will say something along those lines. The sources also say that they can be normal members of the company, because they are usually from tactical squads. Since they are not always from tactical squads, the companies that don't have tactical squads can still field them.

It is completely crucial that the chapters do things this way and it would ruin their effectiveness if they didn't. As an ancillary factor, the first company spends very little time using vehicles. They are very often deployed by teleportation, by thunderhawk air drop with jump packs, by drop pod to reinforce a battle that is already happening, or as special operations that wouldn't tolerate vehicles. When they do use a land raider, it is not really a vehicle. It is an accessory to an infantry operation. The only reason they choose to use a land raider is that they would do the mission by themselves but they need to move faster than they can on foot and fire lascannons while they do it. It is still all about the marines, and in order to support the marines correctly, the crew have to be infantry members of the first company who know exactly what the squad they are supporting need them to do.

 Gashrog wrote:

There is contradictory fluff about where the other marine comes from, some sources put them as coming from the Tactical Reserve Companies,

To me, those particular sources say that the crews come from whatever company the vehicles are used by, but that if there are large groups of vehicles, they are usually used by the reserve companies. If you saw a vehicle in the second company, it would be one of only a few, operating separately from each other, closely combined with infantry rhinos, and crewed by members of the second company. The place where you would be likely to see six or ten or twenty squads at full sizes of three each would be in the reserve companies. The reserve companies are only specially associated with vehicles by using them in large groups. That is why the can be associated with vehicles, but the Ultramarines' first company have a specific predator permanently assigned to them and crewed by elite first company marines. Occasionally, some infantry squads from the first company will need to have a single tank right beside them to assist an infantry operation, and they would need them elite, trustworthy marines they have worked with before and who indeed have taken part in first company ops as infantry. The company would not, however be used for very large scale armor ops, presumably because large scale armor missions usually happen in support of large wars with most of the chapter around, so the reserves would usually be available.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Oh, I should put at the beginning what I actually understand. The answer is almost certainly marines from the first company. The material I know is that any vehicle is piloted by the marines from whatever company the vehicle is in. The second edition codex ultramarines, Index Astartes, the sixth edition marine codex, and fanatic magazine will say something along those lines. The sources also say that they can be normal members of the company, because they are usually from tactical squads. Since they are not always from tactical squads, the companies that don't have tactical squads can still field them.

For some reason I thought LRs were only used by the First Company - is that incorrect? The Ultramarines, for example, have 12 LRs (not counting Calgar's); would these be deployed along with contingents from varying companies, and thus piloted by different marines at different times?

In light of the foregoing it makes more sense to me to have one techmarine crew member and another marine taken from whatever company is along for the ride, though I have no textual support for my claim.

M.A.E. wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
Oh, I should put at the beginning what I actually understand. The answer is almost certainly marines from the first company. The material I know is that any vehicle is piloted by the marines from whatever company the vehicle is in. The second edition codex ultramarines, Index Astartes, the sixth edition marine codex, and fanatic magazine will say something along those lines. The sources also say that they can be normal members of the company, because they are usually from tactical squads. Since they are not always from tactical squads, the companies that don't have tactical squads can still field them.

For some reason I thought LRs were only used by the First Company - is that incorrect? The Ultramarines, for example, have 12 LRs (not counting Calgar's); would these be deployed along with contingents from varying companies, and thus piloted by different marines at different times?

In light of the foregoing it makes more sense to me to have one techmarine crew member and another marine taken from whatever company is along for the ride, though I have no textual support for my claim.

Its going to be different for every chapter. The Blood Angels have 43 Land Raiders, and not as many Techmarines. So I would assume that the Blood Angels send Land Raiders out with more than just the 1st company, and that a lot of them are driven by non-Techmarines.

There are examples of the Land Raiders numbers three, four, and six in the Ultramarines' second company. So it is possible that the second company has been assigned three or more land raiders at different times.

I sort of remember the third edition chart having land raiders in the armory and also others dedicated to the first company. I don't really recall.

I was referring to vehicles emerald though, as if the first company can have a predator crewed by veterans then their land raiders probably are crewed by veterans too, aside from the techmarines.

Using land raiders is probably unusual enough that the techmarine crew member is probably a general purpose techmarine in the task force and not dedicated to that land raider. It would be one of the relics under his care, not something he was really assigned to.

Silly Loyalists... Land Raiders should be driven by the daemon that possesses it. Just make sure you smear someone else's armor with steak sauce so that if it gets hungry, it eats them and not you.

in tabletop armies are least Astartes drive their own vehicles, aided by servitors in support positions

In fluff this creates a big discrepancy so they've tried to explain it away usually, often unsuccessfully.

M.A.E. wrote:

For some reason I thought LRs were only used by the First Company - is that incorrect? The Ultramarines, for example, have 12 LRs (not counting Calgar's); would these be deployed along with contingents from varying companies, and thus piloted by different marines at different times?

Vehicles held by the Armoury will be attached to any company as needed.

Each company also has it's own dedicated vehicle pool separate from the Armoury, since Terminator armour cannot be transported in a Rhino the first company has its own compliment of Land Raiders. 3rd edition gave the smurfs first company 7 Land Raiders in addition to the 12 in the Armoury, subsequent sources have copy-pasted the Armoury numbers from there but omitted the 'boring' transport numbers thereby hiding the additional Land Raiders.

Da Land steala's have boyz and grotz and mekz crewin' em. Der. Does dat answa' da kwestion?

OP asked "who drives the land raider"
OP didnt ask "what percentage"
Therefor the machine spirit drives the land raider, may only be a small percent (I.E when the driver is incapacitated) but it still drives it.

I have better question.
Where LR's pilot actually sits. It's literally hollow metal bowx.

 Whiskered wrote:
I have better question.
Where LR's pilot actually sits. It's literally hollow metal bowx.

In the new SM codex, there is a 'owners manual' style picture of a land raider, it might show where the driver sits

The driver sits under the cupola at the front and the commander is in the cupola at the back.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The driver sits under the cupola at the front and the commander is in the cupola at the back.

I wish GW would do more things like this and they would included that in new codices, for all factions or make a whole book about such sweet construction plans. I wish to see even more detailed descriptions for a ll factions, especially for chaos.

Not sure GW's current crop of for-hire artists has the technical skills to do something like that. I also don't think the current crop of vehicles has been as thought-out as that image was.

Wicked picture.

Everybody is absolutely wrong. Who drives the Land Raider? Sergeant Chronus does.

Before the horus heresy any old sucker could be driving one!
Marines only got exclusive use of them when the emperor saw how much stuff was hitting the fan during the HH.
And the only reason it's marine-exclusive in 40k is because the emperor got put on life-support before he could cancel the order.

OPs Thread Title is absolutely correct. Brother Who drives the Land Raiders. All of them. And the weapons are controlled by Brothers What and I Don't Know.

 Happyjew wrote:
OPs Thread Title is absolutely correct. Brother Who drives the Land Raiders. All of them. And the weapons are controlled by Brothers What and I Don't Know.

Exalted