Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Could a non-Black Legion force lead a BC? I'm think Word Bearers especially. Also would Black Legion ally with them
or would they insist on leading. I personally see them playing second to anyone.

If the Black Legion isn't leading it, it isn't a Black Crusade.

Black Crusades by non-Black Legion

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Crusade_of_Tallomin
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Crusade_of_Jihar_the_Lacerator
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Crusade_of_Doombreed
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Crusade_of_Furion

Black Crusade is an imperial term for chaos incursions larger than the usual raids. The most notable, of course, being Abaddon's 13.

basicly other warleaders can lead black crusades, but when someone refers to THE Black Crusades they're refering to Abbaddons

The 1-13 Black Crusades were lead by Abaddon. The other Black Crusades were lead by others.

I wish there were more detailed examples of Black Crusades not led by Abaddon. It would be cool if one of them actually, y'know, succeeded?

Even better if there was a crusade led by a non-astartes, non-daemon leader. Just a normal human pumped with Chaos.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
I wish there were more detailed examples of Black Crusades not led by Abaddon. It would be cool if one of them actually, y'know, succeeded?

Even better if there was a crusade led by a non-astartes, non-daemon leader. Just a normal human pumped with Chaos.

You realize the vast majority of Abaddon's Black Crusades succeeded in all of their goals, right? Only a few of them, like the 11th, can be considered as losses. Also, Dorn was killed in a non-Abaddon Black Crusade.

The Black Crusades done by non Black Legion forces get cooler names, like the Dominion of Fire.

jareddm wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
I wish there were more detailed examples of Black Crusades not led by Abaddon. It would be cool if one of them actually, y'know, succeeded?

Even better if there was a crusade led by a non-astartes, non-daemon leader. Just a normal human pumped with Chaos.

You realize the vast majority of Abaddon's Black Crusades succeeded in all of their goals, right? Only a few of them, like the 11th, can be considered as losses. Also, Dorn was killed in a non-Abaddon Black Crusade.

Forgot about the Dorn bit.

I never really cared for the change in Abaddon's fluff. It still means the goal isn't achieved until Cadia is taken, which will never happen. It still feels like he's failing. Talon of Horus does a pretty good job at making Abaddon awesome though. Hopefully further books in the series go into details about the later crusades.

The 13th Black Crusade was the one aimed at actually taking Cadia, and that one does succeed.

But, the time line is frozen just before the end of the thirteenth Black Crusade, literally minutes before Eldrad gets eaten by the Blackstone Fortress.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
I wish there were more detailed examples of Black Crusades not led by Abaddon. It would be cool if one of them actually, y'know, succeeded?

Even better if there was a crusade led by a non-astartes, non-daemon leader. Just a normal human pumped with Chaos.

You realize the vast majority of Abaddon's Black Crusades succeeded in all of their goals, right? Only a few of them, like the 11th, can be considered as losses. Also, Dorn was killed in a non-Abaddon Black Crusade.

Forgot about the Dorn bit.

I never really cared for the change in Abaddon's fluff.

It never changed. Some people struggled with reading comprehension and then through a chinese-whispers type effect the fallacy spread across the internet.

"Abaddon has led twelve Black Crusades against the Imperium. Some have been great invasions of whole Legions of the lost and the damned, others have been vicious raids with only a few companies of the most deadly Chaos Space Marines at his command. Each attack has sent the Imperium reeling and ravaged worlds close to the Eye of Terror. The High Lords of Terra live in fear of the day that Abaddon unites all of the Traitor Legions into an unstoppable horde and returns to play out the last acts of treachery begun by Horus ten thousand years ago."

"Abaddon dreams of forging a diabolic empire of his own from the blazing ruins of the shattered Imperium. Each world, each city destroyed, is a step closer to wiping the canvas clean so he can make his mark upon the galaxy."

"Abaddon the Despoiler, most feared adversary of the Imperium, has slowly but surely marshalled the forces of countless Traitor Legions to the point where he stands on the brink of challenging the Emperor himself as Warmaster Horus did before him."

To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.


'12 failures' is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.

With Khorne Daemonkin a lot of what they do could be at least considered a Black Crusade.
Take the Wrath for instance. I don't see them saying "Well that's enough. Let's go home and chill.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The Black Crusades done by non Black Legion forces get cooler names, like the Dominion of Fire.

Word Bearers: Dark Faith Crusade.